Size Matters: PS Audio xStream Statement SC Power Cords, Juice Bar II, Power Ports
DarqueKnight
Posts: 6,765
Introduction
I decided to kick my power delivery game up a notch. My Signal Cable MagicPower cords have served me well and I highly recommend them. However, I was curious to hear how much, if any, improvement I would hear from a bigger, beefier power cord with better shielding. Before we get to my findings, I would like to review a couple of naysayer axioms regarding aftermarket power cords. If you have been reading me for a while, you know that I frequently use water flow analogies to describe the flow of electrical current through conductors. With your indulgence, I will use another water flow analogy to discuss these axioms.
Axiom #1
"I don't see how sticking a so-called "better" power cord on the end of your gear will improve the power delivery. After all, the power has traveled many miles from the generating station through common copper, then through the common copper wiring in your home. It is ludicrous to think that a few feet of boutique wire, whether it's copper, silver, or whatever, will make an audible difference."
Water Flow Analogy For Axiom #1
"I don't see how sticking a so-called "better" water filter on the end of your faucet will improve water quality in the home. After all, the water has traveled many miles from the natural water source (river, lake, aquifer, or whatever) through lots and lots of dirt, then it has been purified by a multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant staffed by highly trained and well paid employees. The water then travels through a sanitary public water system and then trough the common copper piping in your home. The antimicrobial properties of common copper are well documented by scientific research. It is ludicrous to think that a small, often expensive, "boutique" aftermarket water "purifier", will provide an improvement in water quality and taste over and above that provided by the multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant and the miles of anti-microbial copper piping. Those who believe so have fallen victim to the "placebo effect"."
Axiom #2
Aftermarket power cords are snake oil and totally unnecessary. Any modern, well designed audio component has a power supply that is fully capable of supplying the power requirements of the device.
Water Flow Analogy For Axiom #2
Aftermarket water filters are snake oil and totally unnecessary. In the highly unlikely event that any microbes or other contaminants miraculously get past the multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant and the miles and miles of anti-microbial copper, the human body's immune system would effectively deal with them.
The "raw material" that our precious audio components use to make music is the electrical current delivered from the wall socket. Unfortunately, that "raw material" often comes out of the wall in less than ideal form. It may be contaminated with noise from the environment and/or from other devices on the power circuit. The waveform may be distorted. The voltage may be out of specification. Contaminated power is useful for most "normal" applications like running your AC or toaster. If you are trying to faithfully recreate a musical performance, you might want to consider some in-home power treatment options. You can be sure of the fact that the highly paid, highly trained folks at the power company did not have the audiophile and videophile in mind when they designed their miraculous electrical power grid.*
PS Audio xStream Statement SC Power Cord
Overview: 8 AWG, PCOCC single crystal copper, multiple shields, proprietary connectors, ferrite impregnated jacket. MSRP: 1m-$499, 1.5m-$564, 2m-$629, 3m-$759.
Figure 1. The Statement SC made a strong positive statement in my two channel system.
Figure 2. Pretty, pretty. Even if the Statement SC didn't live up to its performance
claims, it is still worth buying for the nice "snake" oil type diamondback jacket and
big thick connectors.:p**
Figure 3. A stack of Statements. 2m for the monoblock amps, 1.5m for the SACD player
and phono preamp, and 3m for the line level preamp.
Figure 4. Yes, size, and shielding, does matter. The black power cord is a Signal Cable
MagicPower cord.
The Sound
The first components to get Statement SC's were my JC 1 monoblock amps. Each amp received a 2 meter cord. Immediately after installation I heard the following:
1. Sound stage height constriction. Images were 0.5 to 1.5 feet lower in height.
2. Less bass impact.
3. Much heavier image weight.
4. Sibilant voices.
Checking back 7 hours later, I heard the following:
1. The sound stage height constriction was gone and the sound stage dimensions and image placement within the sound stage was the same as with the MagicPower cord.
2. The noise floor was lowered. Music sounded louder, although the sound level meter registered the same volume as with the MagicPower cord.
3. The sibilance on voices was gone.
4. Subtle details in percussion instruments were heard more clearly.
After 30 hours of play, the bass detail, speed, and weight had surpassed that of the MagicPower cord.
PS Audio specifies a break in time of 300 hours. My policy is to disqualify a piece of gear if I don't hear an advantage to keeping it within the first 50 hours of listening.
After 3 days of listening to the power amp Statement SC's, I installed a 3 meter Statement SC on my Pass Labs X0.2 preamp. On first listening, the noise floor was lowered further and the images became a bit heavier. The improvement here was very noticeable, but was not as significant as the improvement heard on the power amps. After 20 more hours of play, sound stage depth increased a bit. Since I introduced the preamp's cord well before the power amp cords were broken in, I don't know if the improvements I heard on the fifth day were due solely to the preamp's cord or to a combination of the preamp and power amp cords. Wherever it was coming from, the cables, voodoo, or placebo effect, I liked it!:)
On the sixth day I installed a 1.5 meter Statement SC on my Cary CD 306 Pro SACD player and on my Pass Labs Xono phono preamp. There are two receptacles on the wall behind my equipment cabinet. The X0.2 preamp and right JC 1 amp are plugged into the right receptacle. The left JC 1 amp and a Signal Cable MagicStrip 4 four outlet extension cord are plugged into the left outlet. The Statement SC's for the SACD player and phono preamp were plugged into the Signal Cable MagicStrip.
On first listening to the SACD player, I heard a loss of bass impact and detail and high frequencies were rolled off. I did not hear a lowering of the sound floor. I thought, "Great, I can return this one and get some cash back.
I let the music play and came back to listen ten hours later. The constricted highs were gone. I was also hearing and feeling more bass as well as hearing more ambient and reverberant information. I switched the MagicPower cord back in for a comparative listen. The music volume seemed to dropped slightly and I was missing subtle details, particularly in percussion instruments, that I clearly heard with the Statement SC. The Statement was immediately put back in service.
On the analog side, immediately after installing a Statement SC on the Xono phono preamp, I heard:
1. Sibilance in voices and high frequency percussion instruments.
2. Slightly more tactile bass.
3. A sound stage height lowering of 1 to 1.5 feet.
As with the SACD player, after 10 hours of moderate level playback (average 90 dB-C), the sibilance and sound stage constrictions were gone.
As stated previously, the Statement SC's for the SACD player and phono preamp were plugged into a MagicStrip extension cord. I then decided test a theory.:)
***Edit 8/14/08*** A follow up to the Power Port review is given in post #37 in this thread.
*Stop making sense!!!
**Awwww...calm down. He's just kidding.
I decided to kick my power delivery game up a notch. My Signal Cable MagicPower cords have served me well and I highly recommend them. However, I was curious to hear how much, if any, improvement I would hear from a bigger, beefier power cord with better shielding. Before we get to my findings, I would like to review a couple of naysayer axioms regarding aftermarket power cords. If you have been reading me for a while, you know that I frequently use water flow analogies to describe the flow of electrical current through conductors. With your indulgence, I will use another water flow analogy to discuss these axioms.
Axiom #1
"I don't see how sticking a so-called "better" power cord on the end of your gear will improve the power delivery. After all, the power has traveled many miles from the generating station through common copper, then through the common copper wiring in your home. It is ludicrous to think that a few feet of boutique wire, whether it's copper, silver, or whatever, will make an audible difference."
Water Flow Analogy For Axiom #1
"I don't see how sticking a so-called "better" water filter on the end of your faucet will improve water quality in the home. After all, the water has traveled many miles from the natural water source (river, lake, aquifer, or whatever) through lots and lots of dirt, then it has been purified by a multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant staffed by highly trained and well paid employees. The water then travels through a sanitary public water system and then trough the common copper piping in your home. The antimicrobial properties of common copper are well documented by scientific research. It is ludicrous to think that a small, often expensive, "boutique" aftermarket water "purifier", will provide an improvement in water quality and taste over and above that provided by the multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant and the miles of anti-microbial copper piping. Those who believe so have fallen victim to the "placebo effect"."
Axiom #2
Aftermarket power cords are snake oil and totally unnecessary. Any modern, well designed audio component has a power supply that is fully capable of supplying the power requirements of the device.
Water Flow Analogy For Axiom #2
Aftermarket water filters are snake oil and totally unnecessary. In the highly unlikely event that any microbes or other contaminants miraculously get past the multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant and the miles and miles of anti-microbial copper, the human body's immune system would effectively deal with them.
The "raw material" that our precious audio components use to make music is the electrical current delivered from the wall socket. Unfortunately, that "raw material" often comes out of the wall in less than ideal form. It may be contaminated with noise from the environment and/or from other devices on the power circuit. The waveform may be distorted. The voltage may be out of specification. Contaminated power is useful for most "normal" applications like running your AC or toaster. If you are trying to faithfully recreate a musical performance, you might want to consider some in-home power treatment options. You can be sure of the fact that the highly paid, highly trained folks at the power company did not have the audiophile and videophile in mind when they designed their miraculous electrical power grid.*
PS Audio xStream Statement SC Power Cord
Overview: 8 AWG, PCOCC single crystal copper, multiple shields, proprietary connectors, ferrite impregnated jacket. MSRP: 1m-$499, 1.5m-$564, 2m-$629, 3m-$759.
Figure 1. The Statement SC made a strong positive statement in my two channel system.
Figure 2. Pretty, pretty. Even if the Statement SC didn't live up to its performance
claims, it is still worth buying for the nice "snake" oil type diamondback jacket and
big thick connectors.:p**
Figure 3. A stack of Statements. 2m for the monoblock amps, 1.5m for the SACD player
and phono preamp, and 3m for the line level preamp.
Figure 4. Yes, size, and shielding, does matter. The black power cord is a Signal Cable
MagicPower cord.
The Sound
The first components to get Statement SC's were my JC 1 monoblock amps. Each amp received a 2 meter cord. Immediately after installation I heard the following:
1. Sound stage height constriction. Images were 0.5 to 1.5 feet lower in height.
2. Less bass impact.
3. Much heavier image weight.
4. Sibilant voices.
Checking back 7 hours later, I heard the following:
1. The sound stage height constriction was gone and the sound stage dimensions and image placement within the sound stage was the same as with the MagicPower cord.
2. The noise floor was lowered. Music sounded louder, although the sound level meter registered the same volume as with the MagicPower cord.
3. The sibilance on voices was gone.
4. Subtle details in percussion instruments were heard more clearly.
After 30 hours of play, the bass detail, speed, and weight had surpassed that of the MagicPower cord.
PS Audio specifies a break in time of 300 hours. My policy is to disqualify a piece of gear if I don't hear an advantage to keeping it within the first 50 hours of listening.
After 3 days of listening to the power amp Statement SC's, I installed a 3 meter Statement SC on my Pass Labs X0.2 preamp. On first listening, the noise floor was lowered further and the images became a bit heavier. The improvement here was very noticeable, but was not as significant as the improvement heard on the power amps. After 20 more hours of play, sound stage depth increased a bit. Since I introduced the preamp's cord well before the power amp cords were broken in, I don't know if the improvements I heard on the fifth day were due solely to the preamp's cord or to a combination of the preamp and power amp cords. Wherever it was coming from, the cables, voodoo, or placebo effect, I liked it!:)
On the sixth day I installed a 1.5 meter Statement SC on my Cary CD 306 Pro SACD player and on my Pass Labs Xono phono preamp. There are two receptacles on the wall behind my equipment cabinet. The X0.2 preamp and right JC 1 amp are plugged into the right receptacle. The left JC 1 amp and a Signal Cable MagicStrip 4 four outlet extension cord are plugged into the left outlet. The Statement SC's for the SACD player and phono preamp were plugged into the Signal Cable MagicStrip.
On first listening to the SACD player, I heard a loss of bass impact and detail and high frequencies were rolled off. I did not hear a lowering of the sound floor. I thought, "Great, I can return this one and get some cash back.
I let the music play and came back to listen ten hours later. The constricted highs were gone. I was also hearing and feeling more bass as well as hearing more ambient and reverberant information. I switched the MagicPower cord back in for a comparative listen. The music volume seemed to dropped slightly and I was missing subtle details, particularly in percussion instruments, that I clearly heard with the Statement SC. The Statement was immediately put back in service.
On the analog side, immediately after installing a Statement SC on the Xono phono preamp, I heard:
1. Sibilance in voices and high frequency percussion instruments.
2. Slightly more tactile bass.
3. A sound stage height lowering of 1 to 1.5 feet.
As with the SACD player, after 10 hours of moderate level playback (average 90 dB-C), the sibilance and sound stage constrictions were gone.
As stated previously, the Statement SC's for the SACD player and phono preamp were plugged into a MagicStrip extension cord. I then decided test a theory.:)
***Edit 8/14/08*** A follow up to the Power Port review is given in post #37 in this thread.
*Stop making sense!!!**Awwww...calm down. He's just kidding. Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
Post edited by DarqueKnight on
Comments
-
PS Audio Juice Bar II
While I was yet delirious from the intoxicating effects of the Statement SC snake oil, I ordered a PS Audio Juice Bar II (heavy duty eight outlet power strip) and a 3 meter Statement SC power cord to go with it. The Juice Bar II does come with a 14 gauge power cord, but PS Audio advises that, like most stock power cords that come with high performance audio gear, the Juice Bar II's stock cord is a "throwaway" item.
The listening evaluations in the previous section were made with the 1.5m Statements plugged into a 10 foot four outlet Signal Cable MagicStrip extension cord.
Figure 5. The Juice Bar II is machined from copper, aluminum, and brass billet. You
can read all the juicy technical details at www.psaudio.com.
Figure 6. Nice touch. The IEC jack is machined into the Juice Bar's aluminum end cap.
Figure 7. The Juice Bar II/3 meter Statement SC combination (weighing 8 pounds) dwarfs its predecessor. The 10 foot MagicStrip weighs 3.2 pounds. The JB II/S SC combo also dwarfs its predecessor in price. It is over 7X as much.
Replacing the MagicStrip with the Juice Bar II/Statement SC combination resulted in an immediate lowering of the noise floor comparable to that heard when the the power amp cords were replaced. With both the analog and digital sources, images became heavier.
I expected to hear the same sibilance and sound stage constriction heard when the other Statement SC's were first installed, but in this case I did not. I just experienced a further refinement of all the good things I had been hearing. The Juice Bar II/Statement SC combo brought my source components much closer to receiving the full power of the darque side.:)
PS Audio Power Port
Based on my good experiences with the Statement power cords and Juice Bar II, I decided to splurge on a couple of PS Audio Power Port receptacles.
Figure 8. I was skeptical at first, but...
The only benefit I heard from the Power Ports was a slight additional lowering of the noise floor. I mentioned this in an email to PS Audio and I was advised that the Power Ports take about 300 hours to break in. The Power Ports also provided the mechanical benefit of gripping the connectors tightly. The weight of the Statement SC's caused the connectors to sag away from the regular household outlets.
Figure 9. Now, that's a nice looking AC outlet. The Power Port
(in designer white) blended in perfectly with my contemporary
decor. That alone justified the price.
***
Figure 10. No sagging power cables here. The Power Port bites
and holds on tight.
Noise Is Insidious, Pervasive And Nasty
There are two original electrical outlets on the wall behind my audio cabinet. Both outlets are on the same dedicated 20 amp circuit. Unfortunately, the best location in the house for my wireless router, access point, and cable modem is close to that of my two channel audio system. Therefore, in addition to running my two channel gear off this circuit, I also run my networking gear and the back light for my turntable. Unplugging all the networking gear resulted in a slight lowering of the noise floor.
I decided to be generous and let the networking gear and the turntable back light have the whole original audio circuit to themselves. I ordered the installation of two new dedicated 20 amp circuits strictly for the audio gear. Things must currently be kind of slow in the electrical trade because I called my electrician's office on Thursday and I received an appointment for an estimate visit for the next morning. When the electrician came over, he said he could do the installation the following Monday morning, which he did.
Figure 11. New kids on the (terminal) block. Absolutely one of
the best tweaks ever!
I knew that I would receive some audible benefit from the dedicated circuits, I just expected it to be on the order of what I heard when I unplugged my networking equipment. I did realize a lowering of the noise floor, but it was much more than expected. I also heard and felt more bass and could hear more high frequency details. Sound stage depth was extended a little more. I did have some concern about a slight midrange glazing (loss of detail). That aberration went away after 7 hours of moderate level playback. I assume the new copper needed some time to settle in. Also greeting me upon my return to listening was a significant enhancement of image weight and SDA three-dimensionality. Really, I had no idea that providing a separate power circuit for each of my monoblocks would result in Such Good Sound.:)
I decided to reconfigure the power cabling to provide a more balanced power draw on each circuit. On the left side, there is a continuous total power draw of 325 watts consisting of: JC 1 power amp (250 watts continuous), X0.2 preamp (35 watts continuous), Xono phono preamp (20 watts continuous), Teres turntable battery charger (20 watts continuous). On the right side, there is a continuous total power draw of 315 watts consisting of: JC 1 power amp (250 watts continuous), CD 306 Pro SACD player (65 watts continuous). I did not notice any audible difference between the original and modified power cabling configurations.
Economic Considerations
The retail price of the Statement SC cables are 8X to 8.5X the price of my former Signal power cables. They are not 8X to 8.5X "better" and I did not expect them to be. A while ago, I became comfortable with the concept that the higher you go up in performance, the more incremental the performance gains and the more disproportionate the price paid for those gains.
Further Thoughts: Power Conditioning
I am interested in placing some type of power conditioning component between the power amps and the wall. The deterrents are:
1. All the devices that I know of provide less current and overall power than the wall. PS Audio's Power Plant Premier (PPP) power regenerator literature states that it offers the "full power of the wall". However, the theoretical full power from a common North American 15 amp, 120 volt wall circuit is (15A) x (120V) = 1725 watts. The PPP's literature states that it's maximum power output is 1500 watts. This is a 13% reduction in the power available from the wall.
In the case of a 20 amp circuit, the theoretical maximum power from the wall is (20A) x (120V) = 2400 watts. In this case, the PPP reduces the maximum power from the wall by 37.5%. If you are running high current amplification and like to listen at concert levels every now and then, insertion of the PPP might give one pause.
2. I don't have any more space in my audio equipment cabinet!
I might try a couple of the PS Audio UPC-200's. They are always available on Audiogon and are small enough to fit in the space behind my speakers.
***He's not kidding. Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Always interesting to read your reviews, Raife.
I wish you continued progress in your pursuit of "such good sound" !
JayJay
SDA 2BTL * Musical Fidelity A5cr amp * Oppo BDP-93 * Modded Adcom GDA-600 DAC * Rythmik F8 (x2)
Micro Seiki DQ-50 * Hagerman Cornet 2 Phono * A hodgepodge of cabling * Belkin PF60
Preamp rotation: Krell KSL (SCompRacer recapped) * Manley Shrimp * PS Audio 5.0 -
DarqueKnight wrote: »
Axiom #1
"I don't see how sticking a so-called "better" power cord on the end of your gear will improve the power delivery. After all, the power has traveled many miles from the generating station through common copper, then through the common copper wiring in your home. It is ludicrous to think that a few feet of boutique wire, whether it's copper, silver, or whatever, will make an audible difference."
Water Flow Analogy For Axiom #1
"I don't see how sticking a so-called "better" water filter on the end of your faucet will improve water quality in the home. After all, the water has traveled many miles from the natural water source (river, lake, aquifer, or whatever) through lots and lots of dirt, then it has been purified by a multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant staffed by highly trained and well paid employees. The water then travels through a sanitary public water system and then trough the common copper piping in your home. The antimicrobial properties of common copper are well documented by scientific research. It is ludicrous to think that a small, often expensive, "boutique" aftermarket water "purifier", will provide an improvement in water quality and taste over and above that provided by the multi-million dollar municipal water treatment plant and the miles of anti-microbial copper piping. Those who believe so have fallen victim to the "placebo effect"."
Just Beautifully done sir
Speakers
Carver Amazing Fronts
CS400i Center
RT800i's Rears
Sub Paradigm Servo 15
Electronics
Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
Parasound Halo A23
Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
Pioneer 79Avi DVD
Sony CX400 CD changer
Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR -
Nice to see another convert to the PS Audio way of supplying power. Get the UPC-200's, you won't be disappointed.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
my UPC's have been relegated to rack duty where they perform nicely. They just ran out power when hooked to the BAT mono.
Subsequently, I have had great success with the Shunyata products, which were recommended by BAT.
Since your going upscale Raife maybe one of these to solve your current concerns.
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical-Hydra8specs.html
RT1 -
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
-
I love my PPP. I think you just convinced me to take the dive into some of their other products.
In terms of common sense writing . . . man . . . that was good. Congratulations on a good article. -
Didn't read the whole thread, but just a FYI concerning the UPC200, the Duet is better for less $.
Paul McGowan (The P in PS Audio) on the Duet vs. UPC-200The new Duet has over/under voltage protection which the UPC-200 does not. It also has much lower DCR and a steeped filter and sounds more open.
So, it has better protection and better performance. -
Nice write up Raife. It's no coincidence that we have the same observations when it comes to PC's. Well done!~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
-
Didn't read the whole thread, but just a FYI concerning the UPC200, the Duet is better for less $.
Yeah, that's why you can't give away a Duet and the price for used UPC-200's continues to rise.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Yeah, that's why you can't give away a Duet and the price for used UPC-200's continues to rise.
Not sure how to take your post. I based my comment of posts made by Paul McGowan the primary designer and previously owner of PS Audio, he stated the Duet is a better performer and costs less then the UPC-200.
I decided to buy a Duet a while back and couldn't get my hands on one, they would sell in a day or less for 75% of retail. Meanwhile it took me over a week to sell my high current ultimate outlet, the smaller version of the UPC-200.
Looking at Agon right now there is only 1 duet for sale...at MSRP. Meanwhile there are 4 UPC-200s for sale at 65% of retail. There are 2 recently sold, one for 50% of retail and one for 60%. -
reeltrouble1 wrote: »my UPC's have been relegated to rack duty where they perform nicely. They just ran out power when hooked to the BAT mono.
Subsequently, I have had great success with the Shunyata products, which were recommended by BAT.
The form factor of the Guardian 4's is perfect for my setup. They could sit on the floor behind my 1.2TL's.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Paul always says his latest is the greatest. Sometimes that true, other times it's not.
The UPC-200 is not just a larger Ultimate Outlet.Ultimate Power Cells (UPC) combine the best of the High Current Ultimate Outlet, a Balun and its associated components, along with a 10 fold increase in energy storage and release, improved core material and a few engineering tricks we are not at liberty to write about.
Used Duet just sold for $198.00 on Audiogon. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?powrcond&1222988417
The used price for a UPC-200, when the new line came out was $200.00 on average. They are now averaging $300.00.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Paul always says his latest is the greatest. Sometimes that true, other times it's not.
The UPC-200 is not just a larger Ultimate Outlet.
Used Duet just sold for $198.00 on Audiogon. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?powrcond&1222988417
The used price for a UPC-200, when the new line came out was $200.00 on average. They are now averaging $300.00.
You are correct they are different according to the PS Audio site. My assumption was based of reading somewhere that they were the same internally and of Paul's comments in a thread where a user asked what the advantage would be of a UPC-200 over a UO:Actually it would be the other way around. Two UO's would be better than one UPC-200 simply because of all the separate power cords.
Other than that, you'd be about the same.
As for the Duet they sell for ~2/3 their MSRP while the the three UPC-200s sold went for 50-60% of MSRP. Going solely of that it seems the Duet holds their value better then the UPC-200s. There is also only 1 duet sold on Agon recently and 1 available, while there are 3 UPC-200s sold recently and 5 available.
I don't want to muck up this thread anymore, if you feel the Duet is inferior to the UPC-200 so be it. I went off the designer's word, but you have a point in that he does have a financial motivation to prefer currently produced products to OOP ones. -
Now I know nobody likes there baby called ugly and I do think PS Audio makes fine products, but, and its a big but when your playing with high current, the Shunyata can pass 2400 watts unrestricted. I received my Guardian from a dealer on a trial basis to demo against my UPC-200's, with my mono amp it was simply no contest. Lower noise floor, more bass weight, better treble. The Guardian stayed as a bonus they all come with a 20 amp IEC, which just seems to make sense.
Here is a link to another company who has received high marks for power conditioners, again the unit passes 2400 watts.
http://www.audaud.com/article.php?ArticleID=1252
RT1 -
DarqueKnight wrote: »PS Audio Juice Bar II
All the devices that I know of provide less current and overall power than the wall. PS Audio's Power Plant Premier (PPP) power regenerator literature states that it offers the "full power of the wall". However, the theoretical full power from a common North American 15 amp, 120 volt wall circuit is (15A) x (120V) = 1725 watts. The PPP's literature states that it's maximum power output is 1500 watts. This is a 13% reduction in the power available from the wall.
In the case of a 20 amp circuit, the theoretical maximum power from the wall is (20A) x (120V) = 2400 watts. In this case, the PPP reduces the maximum power from the wall by 37.5%. If you are running high current amplification and like to listen at concert levels every now and then, insertion of the PPP might give one pause.
This all makes sense to me but I think it discounts the incredibly clean power the PPP delivers. Try one for yourself and you will see. In regards to the 1,500 watts, can your system draw that much power at one time? I imagine that would take some hefty amps and transformers powering some big transducers. I sure the PPP would not be optimal for a Genesis system or something of that nature, but for most the PPP is more than adequate. -
Thanks for the review Raife. It was well written and informative as always.
-
I've been toying with the idea of installing two separate circuits for my HT rig, one to power the amp and the other for everything else. I currently have all my gear hooked up to the PS Audio Quintet to a PS Audio PowerPort on one 15A circuit. I can't hear any difference between plugging the amp to the Quintet or the wall directly, so maybe their claims about not restricting high currents are true after all.
DarqueKnight, how much did it cost you to install the two dedicated 20A circuits? I'm trying to see if I could squeeze it into my budget somehow. -
SolidSqual wrote: »In regards to the 1,500 watts, can your system draw that much power at one time?
Sure it can. It can draw even more than that.
One of the things that separates good amps from great amps is transient response, or the ability to deliver a large amount of power in a very short period.
One of the things that separates good live music from good reproduced music is that many of the rich and abundent transients in live music cannot be faithfully reproduced by even the finest of amplifiers...although they can come close enough to fool the ear in some cases.
Here is an old thread you may find interesting: Amplifier Transient Response
With regards to my system, the JC 1 monoblocks are each conservatively rated for 400 watts continuous power into 8 ohms, 800 watts continuous into 4 ohms and 1200 watts 1200 watts continuous into 2 ohms. I'm sure the interested reader can derive some hypothetical transient power requirements for a pair of JC 1's from these continuous power specs.
By the way, I was specifically advised by a PS Audio staff member against attempting to run a pair of JC 1's off of one PPP.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DarqueKnight wrote: »Sure it can. It can draw even more than that.
One of the things that separates good amps from great amps is transient response, or the ability to deliver a large amount of power in a very short period.
One of the things that separates good live music from good reproduced music is that many of the rich and abundent transients in live music cannot be faithfully reproduced by even the finest of amplifiers...although they can come close enough to fool the ear in some cases.
Here is an old thread you may find interesting: Amplifier Transient Response
With regards to my system, the JC 1 monoblocks are each conservatively rated for 400 watts continuous power into 8 ohms, 800 watts continuous into 4 ohms and 1200 watts 1200 watts continuous into 2 ohms. I'm sure the interested reader can derive some hypothetical transient power requirements for a pair of JC 1's from these continuous power specs.
By the way, I was specifically advised by a PS Audio staff member against attempting to run a pair of JC 1's off of one PPP.
I was advised in a similar manner until I told them I was running two D class amps. But this does raise a good point. I wonder if I am hampering the performance of my XPA-2s? Can you offer any insight? I'm still not sure if I am going to keep them. I'll explain more about that later in another post. Don't want to muddy the water. That 30 day return policy does leave me the opportunity to discover some other SS gems. -
SolidSqual wrote: »I wonder if I am hampering the performance of my XPA-2s? Can you offer any insight?
I don't know. I am not familiar with any of the Emotiva amps.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
DK I do a lot of reading of your threads, and not much talking. I am curious has anyone entertained the thought of cleaning caps on the mains of the house. I know we used to do something kinda similar, but it was a cleaning/whole house protection kinda thing.
Thanks
BenPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
Yeah, that's one thing that has always bothered me about PS Audio, their lack of products that support passing 20 amps. For big man amps, it pretty much rules out using any of their power conditioners. For any gear using a 20 amp IEC, it rules out their power cords too unless you do what I did and replace the 15 amp female end with an aftermarket 20 amp end. I use to bug Paul about that issue and get promises that they would address it. Years passed and I just gave up.
The thing that bugs me about Shunyata is that they use silver buss bars in everything up to the Hydra 8 and I try to avoid silver.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I am curious has anyone entertained the thought of cleaning caps on the mains of the house. I know we used to do something kinda similar, but it was a cleaning/whole house protection kinda thing.
Thanks
Ben
The thought never occurred to me. I'm scared of high voltage stuff.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
ben--The BAT factory in Deleware has their incoming power lines specifically set up for their hi-fi componenet testing and manufacturing. They have the incoming lines balanced in different configurations, Vlad at BAT explained it to me but some of it was just too over the top and I cannot recall everything. They are interesting folks to speak with, mostly Russians, in particular Vladimir Shutnov chief engineering and power person. They have taken some extreme measures to ensure clean power for their gear.
I have moved both my rigs to seperate power feeds, I use 30 amp lines to run my amplifiers and 20 amp lines to run my racks with a seperate 20 amp line to run my television for the HT.
Of all my power changes it was the lines which offered the most improvement. When researching power lines I believe I recall either Fremer or Atkinson saying to use as large a gauge wire as you can get your electrician to install and yes copper wire is preferred. I use PS Audio UPC 200's on my 2-ch rack, these devices offer settings for digital or analog, I am thoroughly satified with them for the rack. I use the Shunyata for the 2-ch amplifier which can potentially draw 2Kw + transient. I use a monster 5000 for the HT, this piece does limit the amplifier power and I have during some pretty extreme testing run the Monster into protection shutdown, I did not find the monster suitable for hi-fi, however, it is marketed at HT.
RT1 -
GREAT Review.
Are you using all PS Audio Cables now? Interconnects, Speaker cables, etc..
I'm still waiting for the Speaker Cable review. -
I switched to Audioquest speaker cable and interconnects. My PS Audio speaker cable review is here: PS Audio xStream Resolution Reference Speaker Cable.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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You just wasted thousands on snake oil and voodoo;).
Excellent review with great pics.
I'm also a big fan of PS Audio. All my gear are using PS Audio power cords and I like the results, especially the lowering of the noise floor.
The power port looks interesting. I may have to get one.
Thanks for posting the review. -
You just wasted thousands on snake oil and voodoo;).
Well, maybe...but at least I have something to show for my cash...unlike all the poor souls hooked on hookers and coke.;)Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Hey! A bad rash and a deviated septum aren't anything to scoff at. I may even write a review. . if I can stop scratching.
I'll post some pictures:eek:-Ignorance is strength -
