Turntables - what makes the biggest difference?

hearingimpared

Well I think just like a 2 ch or HT rig improvements are cumulative it's the same with a TT. There are some tweaks on a TT that make dramatic differences/improvements; e.g. VTA/SRA, azimuth & zenith adjustments; just to name a few.

But that voodoo that I do can also be called do-do.:D

mhardy6647

hearingimpared wrote: »

... There are some tweaks on a TT that make dramatic differences/improvements; e.g. VTA/SRA, azimuth & zenith adjustments; just to name a few.

Yeah, but those are freebies!

hearingimpared

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Yeah, but those are freebies!

Not necessarily.;)

RutgersFTW

I'm trying to figure out what it is you're discussing and what it costs - what's the purpose of this speed controller? Isn't that what a strobe/pitch control setting is for?

strider

RutgersFTW wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out what it is you're discussing and what it costs - what's the purpose of this speed controller? Isn't that what a strobe/pitch control setting is for?

Pro-ject makes a speed control box called the Speed Box, one version costs about $129 and the upgraded one is around $500, IIRC. The two tables mentioned don't have captive power cords, but a wall wart power supply. When you use the Speed Box, it plugs in between the 'table and the wall wart, regulating the power supply to the table. Neither of the 2 Pro-ject 'tables have a strobe/pitch control.

hearingimpared

RutgersFTW wrote: »

what's the purpose of this speed controller? Isn't that what a strobe/pitch control setting is for?

The purpose of the speed controller is to set the speed at exactly 33 1/3 or 45 rpm so that the pitch of the music is just right.

Most tables except some the '80s tables like Technics don't have a strobe on them. Some do come with a pitch control but you have to have your own strobe wheel to do the adjustment. There are several companies that make after market strobe wheels and testers. VPI & KAB are two that come to mind.

billbillw

Technically, these speed controllers are only used with turntables that have AC synchronous motors. That means the motor runs off 60Hz (50Hz in Europe) AC power. The speed of the motor is determined by the frequency of the AC. In North America, there is very little fluctuation of that 60Hz frequency, so turntable motors (the AC sync type anyway) are pretty darn close to the right speed without any speed control whatsoever. They spin at whatever RPM their design was for (600 RPM is common) and the pulleys are sized to give you 33.5 RPM at the platter. These type turntables usually have a separate pulley for 45RPM playback.

Most Tables that you see with speed/pitch controls built into the table are using DC motors, which are a totally different design.

Now, enter the external speed controller. It basically uses a circuit to recreate an adjustable AC frequency output to feed the motor. If your turntable is running a little slow (maybe from a slipping belt), then you can up the frequency to say 60.5Hz or whatever it takes to give you 33.5 RPM at the platter. You can also up the speed of the motor to do 45RPM without changing the belt to the second pulley.

Some swear by them, others say the improvement is marginal. It probably depends on the stability of the AC frequency in your area.

hearingimpared

billbillw wrote: »

Technically, these speed controllers are only used with turntables that have AC synchronous motors. That means the motor runs off 60Hz (50Hz in Europe) AC power. The speed of the motor is determined by the frequency of the AC. In North America, there is very little fluctuation of that 60Hz frequency, so turntable motors (the AC sync type anyway) are pretty darn close to the right speed without any speed control whatsoever. They spin at whatever RPM their design was for (600 RPM is common) and the pulleys are sized to give you 33.5 RPM at the platter. These type turntables usually have a separate pulley for 45RPM playback.

Most Tables that you see with speed/pitch controls built into the table are using DC motors, which are a totally different design.

Now, enter the external speed controller. It basically uses a circuit to recreate an adjustable AC frequency output to feed the motor. If your turntable is running a little slow (maybe from a slipping belt), then you can up the frequency to say 60.5Hz or whatever it takes to give you 33.5 RPM at the platter. You can also up the speed of the motor to do 45RPM without changing the belt to the second pulley.

Some swear by them, others say the improvement is marginal. It probably depends on the stability of the AC frequency in your area.

Great explaination Bill. That is why mine is called a "Power Line Conditioner" and it has two pots; one for 33 1/2 and one for 45 rpms. I swear by mine as just not a tweak.

billbillw

hearingimpared wrote: »

Great explaination Bill. That is why mine is called a "Power Line Conditioner" and it has two pots; one for 33 1/2 and one for 45 rpms. I swear by mine as just not a tweak.

IMHO, it takes a high end setup like yours to really benefit from these speed controllers. Its that last piece of the puzzle so to speak.

I still need to step up to the SAMA on mine, but with the almost negligible use my VPI has seen in the last year, its not a priority right now. Someday though, when I can setup my system properly again...

RutgersFTW

billbillw wrote: »

Technically, these speed controllers are only used with turntables that have AC synchronous motors. That means the motor runs off 60Hz (50Hz in Europe) AC power. The speed of the motor is determined by the frequency of the AC. In North America, there is very little fluctuation of that 60Hz frequency, so turntable motors (the AC sync type anyway) are pretty darn close to the right speed without any speed control whatsoever. They spin at whatever RPM their design was for (600 RPM is common) and the pulleys are sized to give you 33.5 RPM at the platter. These type turntables usually have a separate pulley for 45RPM playback.

Most Tables that you see with speed/pitch controls built into the table are using DC motors, which are a totally different design.

Now, enter the external speed controller. It basically uses a circuit to recreate an adjustable AC frequency output to feed the motor. If your turntable is running a little slow (maybe from a slipping belt), then you can up the frequency to say 60.5Hz or whatever it takes to give you 33.5 RPM at the platter. You can also up the speed of the motor to do 45RPM without changing the belt to the second pulley.

Some swear by them, others say the improvement is marginal. It probably depends on the stability of the AC frequency in your area.

That's a great answer. Thanks!

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote: »

That is why mine is called a "Power Line Conditioner" and it has two pots; one for 33 1/2 and one for 45 rpms. I swear by mine as just not a tweak.

I got one just in case your in the 'hood someday and stop in. Mine has only one knob though. I gotta change the belt groove for 45. OK, it does help or I would have got rid of it.

I snagged a used KAB Speedstrobe over a year ago and highly recommend it.

dkg999

I just want to listen to music, on the hi-fi

I'm trying to make this turntable thing as simple as possible! The reason I am going with Pro-ject is that both dealers I have a long relationship with will take care of any setup, check-ups on setup, change a cartridge for me and re-setup the table/tonearm, etc! I wish I had time to learn all about the setup and adjustments, get the tools to do it myself, etc, but I don't.

But I have to admit, this thread has provided a great education! My thanks to all!

shack

dkg999 wrote: »

I just want to listen to music, on the hi-fi

I'm trying to make this turntable thing as simple as possible! The reason I am going with Pro-ject is that both dealers I have a long relationship with will take care of any setup, check-ups on setup, change a cartridge for me and re-setup the table/tonearm, etc! I wish I had time to learn all about the setup and adjustments, get the tools to do it myself, etc, but I don't.

But I have to admit, this thread has provided a great education! My thanks to all!

I think you will be just fine. I'm currently using an entry level Goldring TT with a "better than the price would indicate' tone arm and cartridge. As I understand they are worth more that what the entire table sold for.

I don't have to tweek it at all. I clean the LP if it needs it, a quick sweep with the CF brush, drop the arm and enjoy. I am enjoying the hell out of it. Simplicity at its best (at least in vinyl circles).

reeltrouble1

shack wrote: »

, a quick sweep with the CF brush, drop the arm and enjoy.

I utilized this technique with great success during many high school dates.;)

If you don't think playing records is about sex then you have not had enough therapy.

RT1

shack

reeltrouble1 wrote:

I utilized this technique with great success during many high school dates.;)

And since the the high school days....your technique is......?

reeltrouble1

same thing, never mess with anything that works..........

RT1

shack

So getting them to "loosen up" with some PGA punch in the back seat of the Galaxie parked on a dead end road should still work....:D

dkg999

The 1970 Torino fastback had the best back seat! A Bread 8 track tape in the deck, drop the arm, and you're in

shack

dkg999 wrote:

The 1970 Torino fastback had the best back seat!

Better than a 1965 Ford Galaxie 4 door? I don't think so. Slide the front seat all the way forward...well...lets just say there was ample room to "stretch out" and "recline".

hearingimpared

Sorry guys but you are wrong. The '72 Riviera's back seat area was so large there was an echo back there.:eek:

billbillw

I can fold down the rear seats in our minivan and inflate a double size airbed...beat that

rayslifecycle

Great Explanations by all in this post - quite an enjoyable read.........

but I have to say that the Volvo 240 wagon with the back seat down makes a 6'3"long flat deck.....fits the air mattress, gets better fuel economy then the minivan when driving to make-out point, has lots of room to "drop the arm" - and nothing says sexy like borrowing moms station wagon.....

SCompRacer

shack wrote: »

Better than a 1965 Ford Galaxie 4 door?

I had a '68 Galaxie 4 door! (The guy ordered it with a front bench seat, 390 and a 4 speed. My hand could slip while getting 2nd and 4th.:D) More room in the back, much better than my '68 Mustang fastback!!!!

SCompRacer

dkg999 wrote: »

I'm trying to make this turntable thing as simple as possible!

Me too. Really! I don't have best VTA setting written on all my LP's like Joe.:D