TT What do you think?

SCompRacer

Ben, ideally downforce or VTF (Vertical Tracking Force) should be measured with a scale and set to the cartridge manufacturers specifications. Shure makes an inexpensive balance type scale.

In the manual I downloaded, after removing the antiskate weight, balance the tonearm so it is level, and set the downforce to zero. 17,5mN is the recommended setting with the supplied cartridge.

billbillw

Ok,
FIrst, you balance the arm with the cartridge until it is neutral balance. ie: it floats. Then you zero the dial. THis is your reference point. Then you dial in whatever the cartridge recommends for tracking force, usually its somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 grams. You set the anti-skate equal to the tracking force, and you should be good to go.

Isn't this in the manual?

EDIT: If you scale in in micro newtons (instead of grams) then I guess you need to look up whatever the cart manufacturer says and convert it to mN.

ben62670

I am retarded. They set it up for me, and I shouldn't post this, but when I got it hooked up I went to play it, and the arm just started heading to the center, and no sound. So being the major brain that I am with 8 hours of sleep in 3 days I turned the counter weight:o Even more embarrassing was the there was a little tiny clear cover over the needle:o:o:o Dooh! So I messed it all up!

ben62670

billbillw wrote: »

Ok,
FIrst, you balance the arm with the cartridge until it is neutral balance. ie: it floats. Then you zero the dial. THis is your reference point. Then you dial in whatever the cartridge recommends for tracking force, usually its somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 grams. You set the anti-skate equal to the tracking force, and you should be good to go.

Isn't this in the manual?

17.5 Does this seem way to high?

SCompRacer

Ben, when balancing the arm, relax or remove the antiskate weight. You always relax or remove the antiskate weight when setting/checking VTF (downforce).

You can experiment with different settings of antiskate and VTF. Not knowing how much downforce is being exerted would bother me. The question is how much downforce is actually being exerted when set to 17,5mN.

Systems

ben62670 wrote: »

I am retarded. They set it up for me, and I shouldn't post this, but when I got it hooked up I went to play it, and the arm just started heading to the center, and no sound. So being the major brain that I am with 8 hours of sleep in 3 days I turned the counter weight:o Even more embarrassing was the there was a little tiny clear cover over the needle:o:o:o Dooh! So I messed it all up!

Classic. May I save this for future embarassment? Take it back and belittle yourself at the store. They have no problem setting it back up for you and SOMETIMES happy to do it for you.

Chuck

BTW.....the store is closed on Sundays...LMFAO...I'm sorry

ben62670

OK I just needed to walk away, and calm down a bit. It is 17.5, and I matched the anti Skate weight to the same per manual specs. Now I can go and enjoy the tunes again. It sounds much better phew!

ben62670

stereo_luver wrote: »

Classic. May I save this for future embarassment? Take it back and belittle yourself at the store. They have no problem setting it back up for you and SOMETIMES happy to do it for you.

Chuck

BTW.....the store is closed on Sundays...LMFAO...I'm sorry

There is now a BIG scratch across the front of that 990:p You ****!

Systems

You're killing me man. My side hurts now. I should be sleeping so I can be refreshed when I go in to work tonight. But NO, something told me to go check and see if Ben got the TT today. I knew there would be a story in there somewhere. Thanks for the scratch. Please include a Sharpie so I can touch-up the finish. I'm sure I will never notice it EVERYTIME I pass thru the room.

Chuck

ben62670

OK all is good now. Lesson learned. Everything is much better now.
Thanks guys
Ben

ben62670

Hey Chuck Pete is awesome. I'll have to fix my visitation thread;)
Ben

SCompRacer

ben62670 wrote: »

OK I just needed to walk away, and calm down a bit. It is 17.5, and I matched the anti Skate weight to the same per manual specs. Now I can go and enjoy the tunes again. It sounds much better phew!

Kewl. Cartridge manufacturers will usually post VTF in grams (like 1.4-2.0). You can experiment within that range. Anti skate can be 1/2 of VTF, less or more. Depends on the arm, cartridge, if your table is level. j/k Your table should be spot on level.

EDIT: Oh, and always remove the stylus protector when setting VTF and playing a record (if you want sound, anyway).:p:D

Systems

I'm glad he came around. One thing you have to remember about the location of the store. Everytime somebody comes thru the door there is the opportunity for them to be a person down on the square shopping for antiques with thier wife and killing time. "Hey, I have a Bose system at home and it didn't cost near this much. Can I play with your stereos?" "Why do you have lightbulbs sticking out of that piece of stereo equipment?" "HOW much does that radio cost?!!!"

Chuck

ben62670

Well I am spinning DSOTM, and everything is beautiful. I had to open the doors to 3 of the adjacent rooms to unload the pressure in the room. The walls, and the doors were just flexing too much. The bass is nice, tight, and accurate. I can't wait for things to burnin.
Ben

ben62670

Well I guess I should go to bed now. I have been braiding cables this whole time, cleaning records, and listening to tunes:eek:

TroyD

Glad things are sounding good, man. Good stuff.

BDT

MillerLiteScott

Ben,

Nice table.

I have taken the dust cover off of my table because it was picking up bass resonance through the air ( which I am sure you are getting with your speakers):D I just put some of those little clear sticky round pads you can buy at home depot and stuck them to the corners of the dust cover and sit it on my table when not in use. Big improvement all around.

Also make sure the table is level and make your adjustments after the table is level.

Keep spinnin'

Scott

madmax

Just a word of advice Ben. Always use an old POS record when you play around with settings. Also, don't be afraid to change things around, even if eventually you have to take it back to the store to have reset. At some point this is how you will make it sound better.
madmax

ben62670

Well I have decided to put the TT in another room after I build a pre amp for it. There is a window that goes outside that I may use for the mini fest here. I finally got over 8 hrs of sleep in a row. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Ben

engtaz

Congrats on the new TT. Isn't life good know that you found what you were really missing.

engtaz

ben62670

I need a local Polkie. This thing should be sounding better than my Technics by now. Its 100 miles round trip to the store.
Ben

billbillw

ben62670 wrote: »

This thing should be sounding better than my Technics by now.

You'd think, but...

treitz3

Funny thread. Ben, I hear ya'! I about pissed in my pants from laughter when I read about the plastic.......:eek:

Could you put another scratch on the pre just for Chuck? I hear he likes his stuff like that. That way, he concentrates on the music and not the gear.

ben62670

treitz3 wrote: »

Could you put another scratch on the pre just for Chuck? I hear he likes his stuff like that. That way, he concentrates on the music and not the gear.

I'll tell him its from you:)
Well I backed off the counter weight a bit. The mids sound a little better. I took a break, and went digital though:eek: Well back to the TT.
Ben

treitz3

Ben, if you are **** with adjustments.......you don't want to have the pristine albums on her. Just a friendly word of advice.

madmax

ben62670 wrote: »

and went digital though:eek: Well back to the TT.
Ben

I dicked around with mine for years and couldn't get a decent sound to come out. Then I removed the digital completely and went totally vinyl for awhile. What it took to get the ear for the sound was to stop comparing to digital. They both have their own strong points and no matter what you do you keep shooting for the benifits of digital and give up everything else. Of course you end up with a less than optimum sound because you don't shoot to improve the strong points of the vinyl. It was pretty easy to dial in the TT once I figured out what I was listening for. Now the vinyl benifits totally outweigh the digital benifits. Another thing I did was went and listened to some really high end vinyl setups at fellow audiophiles houses. That was what yanked my wallet out and let the moths fly out.
madmax

Edit: So the thing I found that was holding me back was #1: Sitting on a glass shelf killed the sound, ended up trying all sorts of surfaces and settled on mdf. #2: The preamp I was using didn't have quite enough gain and was operating like a low gain CD player plugged directly into an amp, not much excitement and it agravated the noise on the vinyl.

strider

ben62670 wrote: »

I'll tell him its from you:)
Well I backed off the counter weight a bit. The mids sound a little better. I took a break, and went digital though:eek: Well back to the TT.
Ben

Are you happy with how it sounds still? If you have any questions, just let me know. I've been fooling around with mine for 18 months or so. The best thing I did when seeting the table up was to take what's in the manual with a grain of salt. There are some steps in it that just don't make sense. I still enjoy mine, but am feeling just like what Andy said in post #6. I've got the acrylic platter upgrade for it, which is nice. They also have a couple different speed control boxes for it. Those are 2 easy and reversible mods for you that would make quite an improvement.

ben62670

Well I backed of the counter weight substantially, and that seem to help with the voices. They were the hardest thing to get right. My Technics was better without touching anything than this is so far. This thing is upgradeable, but I thought I would hear quit a bit of difference between the two. I know the platter needs to go, and the cartridge. Joe strongly suggests getting rid of the tone arm, and going with CF. I am agreeable, but I was hoping that the sound would have been better than the TT I just replaced. I hate to post this so early knowing that things need to burn in, and be setup properly, but I am a little frustrated at this point. I know vinyl is something I really enjoy from the other table, but with this one I am kinda puzzled. Its pretty, but I just don't know what to think. If I were to do it again I would have upgraded the cartridge on the Technics, and saved for a better TT. That would take quit a while though, and I knew this was in reach. Just confused at the moment. Hopefully I can get a Polkie over.
Ben

ben62670

strider wrote: »

Are you happy with how it sounds still? If you have any questions, just let me know. I've been fooling around with mine for 18 months or so. The best thing I did when seeting the table up was to take what's in the manual with a grain of salt. There are some steps in it that just don't make sense. I still enjoy mine, but am feeling just like what Andy said in post #6. I've got the acrylic platter upgrade for it, which is nice. They also have a couple different speed control boxes for it. Those are 2 easy and reversible mods for you that would make quite an improvement.

What is the down force on the dial set at? I set mine to zero when balanced.
Thanks
Ben

treitz3

Doesn't the manual state the down force? With mine it did. 1.5 or close to that. I'd have to check.....it's been a while since I fiddled with it.