Whole-house audio system?

Serendipity

Anyone here have experience with installing a whole-house audio system like the NetStreams Musica or Elan/Crestron/AMX, etc. systems?

This is one of those projects I'd like to do someday and I'd like some tips to get started...

P.S. I like the Polk RC85 and RC65i inwall speakers, they sound great!!

Serendipity

Would just like to add...

I already removed all the drywall on the ceiling of my basement, so I'd like to run speaker wire inside there first before closing up the ceiling. I would assume that most distributed audio systems use Cat5e cabling and standard speaker wire, so I'll try to run that first.

But I have no experience with whole-house audio systems so I'd like to know what I need to do this myself and any pointers to do this right.

Thanks!

disneyjoe7

Just standing by to learn perhaps on this one, but if needed will add something for ya.

Serendipity

I guess I can try running the in-wall rated speaker wire and the Cat5e first. But having never installed one of these systems, I'd like to know more before I prewire and make sure I understand all the details before I start taking out a drill and hammer

Maybe Jstas or one of the other network guys could chime in?

obieone

I thought there was another cable out that had more connections than cat5e now?
BTW, I found a 250' roll of AQ14/4 CL3 rated cable at Tweeter for cheap money on clearance page. Might want to check the local ones, see if you can find a deal.

Serendipity

obieone wrote: »

I thought there was another cable out that had more connections than cat5e now?

Can you explain? I thought Cat5e was the industry standard.

dkg999

When I want whole house audio, I just turn it up a little more

obieone

I THOUGHT I saw a comm cable with a higher numerical designation than 5, last time I walked thru Home D. Like 6 or something. Not trying to push my neurosis on you, just don't want to see you close up the walls with a comm cable that may be obsolete in the near future:o

Serendipity

obieone wrote: »

I THOUGHT I saw a comm cable with a higher numerical designation than 5, last time I walked thru Home D. Like 6 or something. Not trying to push my neurosis on you, just don't want to see you close up the walls with a comm cable that may be obsolete in the near future:o

Are you referring to a Cat6 cable? Most distributed audio systems seem to use the ethernet cable only for volume control/source selection/transport control, so I would think Cat5e would work fine. But like I said, I'm new to all this so I'm wondering if someone with experience installing these systems can chime in?

Thanks!

disneyjoe7

The problem I see here is that you haven't picked a brand to work with or know how there stuff works.

I think there's systems which work with Cat5 cable for local control where the speaker wires go back to source with control Cat5 cable.

There's systems which control some with Cat5 but volume local so speakers are wired to local control then speakers wiring goes back to source.

This type above is what I installed in my house. So I feel is very flexible as I could always connect speaker wiring together behind local control to have it like the other style if needed. But since I did it with Niles controls, I don't knew if something else would need something else as in wiring needs.

Also not a fan of 2 pair wiring unless it's just back to source from local control, as to speakers you alway would have one pair shorter then the other. I know others say it doesn't matter, but it my $.02 that's all.

Serendipity

I thought they would be standardized so all you have to run is one Cat5 cable from the controller to every room, and a pair of speaker wire from the source to every room.

But I guess this is not the case, so I'll have to pick out a system beforehand and then do the wiring.

I'm mostly interested in the NetStreams Musica, Niles, and A-Bus systems. I like the A-Bus because you can use an Onkyo/Integra A-Bus receiver and then use that as a control center.

amulford

dkg999 wrote: »

When I want whole house audio, I just turn it up a little more

Word...

If you need to have a system through the house, your system is weak;)

J/K - I have done it on a reasonably small scale. Few different zones, centralized control. Nothing real high tech.

Serendipity

amulford wrote: »

Word...

If you need to have a system through the house, your system is weak;)

J/K - I have done it on a reasonably small scale. Few different zones, centralized control. Nothing real high tech.

What kind of system did you install? And what brand controller did you use? I'm planning on something with 8-12 zones and centralized control so that you can pick an XM radio station, change CD tracks, or access a music server from any room in the house.

amulford

No, when I say centralized, I mean control from one point. Source was switching was from one point and was global output. The volume was controlled in the rooms, but that's it.

And I did it while the house was gutted. Basically I made it so music could be heard all through the house with out cranking the system (it wasn't my house, see above;)) I had speakers in the kitchen, formal living room, dining room, master bedroom, master bath, and on the patio.

I used a Niles 12 channel amp Like this one, and I set all of the outputs to 75% gain to protect the speakers. 14 ga UL wire to a volume control Like this in each zone/room, then to the speakers. Source was taken from the HT I put in for them, but was it's own animal.

You're looking for remote controlled source switching, which is different. That can be done, but it's ALOT more complicated. And alot more expensive. It's not hard to figure out, though. you would need to run extra cable, unless you use RF remote.

Serendipity

amulford wrote: »

You're looking for remote controlled source switching, which is different. That can be done, but it's ALOT more complicated. And alot more expensive. It's not hard to figure out, though.

Yeah. I want to be able to change FM radio stations, pick a song from a CD, or browse a music collection on a music server/HTPC from any room in the house. I know this is possible, since I've seen this kind of stuff at shows like CES, it's just more complicated to install.

What would you recommend?

amulford

Niles.

amulford

You know who probably would have some good input to this is Mantis. I'm sure he's done a few...

Serendipity

amulford wrote: »

You know who probably would have some good input to this is Mantis. I'm sure he's done a few...

Is he a Polk custom installer? I'd like to know what installs he's done in the past before and their details. That would help a lot as I'm pretty much clueless about distributed audio systems and since I'm still a teenager, I'm on a budget here

amulford

No, he works for Tweeter.

You'd have to ask him.

As far as the money, it ain't cheap. If you do go cheap, you'll regret it....

disneyjoe7

I did something like what Anthony did, but I can control it with a IR remote from the local control locations. I just a single zone as if XM is being played out by the pool, if the other zones are on in the other areas of the house it must also hear XM. I also like the fact the local controls can be set to go on with in auto off so if the back end of house is listen to CD's from the changer, it did go on all over house. This feature as saved my a$$ with my neighbors as my system was being turned on by some IR noise from the outside controller and if it was playing I don't think my neighbors would live with that at 3am.

BTW I'm using a Niles system also.

Serendipity

amulford wrote: »

As far as the money, it ain't cheap. If you do go cheap, you'll regret it....

Well, like said before, I'm on a teenager budget but I still want something that works well. I've installed my own alarm system on a budget, remodeled my room on a budget, and did a HT on a budget too. So I think something like this is possible without spending thousands of $$$.

amulford

This feature as saved my a$$ with my neighbors as my system was being turned on by some IR noise from the outside controller and if it was playing I don't think my neighbors would live with that at 3am.

That's why I went with the ones I did.

Serendipity

That sounds like a cool feature, I don't think my neighbors would be too happy either if my music was blasting at 3am...

disneyjoe7

amulford wrote: »

That's why I went with the ones I did.

Well I did like the ones I did because wish not to run around house turning them off if I didn't wish that section on. But I like the IR repeater function which I found more ways to use in the house like for a TiVo which has an output feed to a local in house channel. The IR repeater allows control of this TiVo from the local locations around house.


But the auto off of the speakers are a must IMHO.

mantis

appadv wrote: »

Anyone here have experience with installing a whole-house audio system like the NetStreams Musica or Elan/Crestron/AMX, etc. systems?

This is one of those projects I'd like to do someday and I'd like some tips to get started...

P.S. I like the Polk RC85 and RC65i inwall speakers, they sound great!!

Yes I do,
I have done from basic speaker selector boxes running off the B side of receivers to full Crestron systems.

Basically you have to lay down your goals/needs/wants. How many rooms you want to do this in and then build a system that matches your needs.

You can't build a multiroom on the cheap. No matter how you do it, the price adds up. A simple speaker selctor box, wire, inwall volume controls and speakers will run you a few grand depending on how many rooms you do.

Crestron is for people who have alot of extra cash. There system start well over 10k and thats for a completely basic small system. Easy 30 to 50 grand for a nicer small system and the sky is the limit with Crestron. Liv4fam is doing a 1.4 million dollar Install and it's a full Crestron system.

So I can help you but you need to give me some guide lines. Tell me want you wanna do and I'll point you to a Installer in your area. Multiroom systems are not for the Do it Yourself type people. Unless you want to build a very basic system, Leave it to the Pro's on this. The money on labor will be worth it's weight in gold.

Dan

Serendipity

mantis wrote: »

So I can help you but you need to give me some guide lines. Tell me want you wanna do and I'll point you to a Installer in your area. Multiroom systems are not for the Do it Yourself type people. Unless you want to build a very basic system, Leave it to the Pro's on this. The money on labor will be worth it's weight in gold.

I was told the same thing when I installed my alarm system - it's too difficult, it's not for the DIY type person, and that I should go with an ADT or other commercially available system.

Well, I decided to go and do it myself and guess what? Aside from a few technical issues, I was able to do it myself, 100%. It also gave me a feeling of satisfaction as I learned that I could get something done that I previously thought impossible. Now I'm a EE major and I'm studying Physics right now, so I believe that I CAN tackle a system like this myself and do a nice install.

What do you think?

disneyjoe7

appadv wrote: »

That sounds like a cool feature, I don't think my neighbors would be too happy either if my music was blasting at 3am...

But as Anthony stated the more you do with it the more $$ it cost. His volume controller is $45 where mine where like $190 but I saved in the source as I'm using an old pre-amp tuner and amp.

Down the road if I wish I could replace the pre and amp for a Niles 6 zone amp and their better local controller which are wired with Cat5 only. So I wired good either way I go in the future. It all in the options.

Serendipity

Well, I still want to do this even though it's "not for the do it yourself" people. Just look at Trey - he does a lot of stuff around the house and, IIRC, built his own deck. So nothing's impossible.

amulford

So I think something like this is possible without spending thousands of $$$.

You'd better start pricing stuff.

Niles 8 source, 6 room

In ceiling Polk RC80i's (your looking at 6 pair)

Or in walls Polk RC85i's or Polk RC65i's(again your looking at 6 pair)

Don't forget some In wall wire (I don't like the gauge, but it would work)

You want to do more than six zones? Add it up.



I'm not being smart, but realistic. I charged those people $10k for their whole house, my labor was only 3k. It ain't cheap.

Serendipity

You have no idea how much gear you can get for "free" these days. A while back I got an Adcom GFA-535 that was broken. Well, $3 in parts later, I saved it from the dumpster, AND it was working as good as new.

Take a look at this: http://electronics.search.ebay.com/as-is_Home-Audio_W0QQcatrefZC12QQdfspZ32QQfromZR40QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsacatZ14969QQsaobfmtsZinsifQQsatitleZasQ2dis

Serendipity

This looks tempting: http://cgi.ebay.com/Onkyo-TX-SR705-7-1-THX-3HDMI-Receiver-AS-IS-FOR-REPAIR_W0QQitemZ220250044859QQihZ012QQcategoryZ14981QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Also this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Onkyo-TX-SR702-AS-IS-Parts-Repair_W0QQitemZ120277638351QQihZ002QQcategoryZ14981QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I have the latter one and it's got 3-zone, multi-source capability. I wonder how well that'll work in a distributed audio setup??