How dare the Saudis....

polkatese

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080516/D90MVTDO0.html

Bush fails to win Saudi help on gas prices

May 16, 5:34 PM (ET)

By TERENCE HUNT

(AP) President Bush sits with Saudi King Abdullah at the King's Al Janadriyah Ranch in Riyadh, Saudi...
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RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) - President Bush failed to win the help he sought from Saudi Arabia to relieve skyrocketing American gas prices Friday, a setback for the former Texas oilman who took office predicting he would jawbone oil-producing nations to help the U.S.

Bush got a red-carpet welcome to this desert kingdom, home to the world's largest oil reserves, and promised to ask King Abdullah to increase production to reduce pressure on prices, which soared past $127 for the first time Friday. But Saudi officials said they already were meeting the needs of their customers worldwide and there was no need to pump more.

Their answer recalled Bush's trip to Saudi Arabia in January when he urged an increase in production but was rebuffed.

Saudi oil minister Ali al-Naimi said the kingdom decided on May 10 to increase production by 300,000 barrels a day to help meet U.S. needs after Venezuela and Mexico cut back deliveries.



"Supply and demand are in balance today," al-Naimi told a news conference, bristling at criticism from the U.S. Congress. "How much does Saudi Arabia need to do to satisfy people who are questioning our oil practices and policies?"

Early this week, Senate Democrats introduced a resolution to block $1.4 billion in arms sales to Saudi Arabia unless Riyadh agreed to increase its oil production by 1 million barrels per day.

Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal said the discussion with Bush about oil was friendly. "He didn't punch any tables or shout at anybody," the minister said. "I think he was satisfied."

That couldn't be said for at least one of the candidates hoping to succeed Bush in January. Said Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton: "I think it's very important that we do something more dramatic than going to have tea with the Saudis."

National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said consumers would not see dramatic price reductions. Oil experts agreed.


(AP) President Bush, left, walks with Saudi King Abdullah during an arrival ceremony at Riyadh-King...
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Bernard Picchi, an energy analyst at Wall Street Access, an independent research firm, called the 300,000 barrel Saudi production increase "a token amount."

It would be different, he said, if Saudi Arabia boosted production by 1 million or 1.5 million barrels a day. The announced increase will have Saudi Arabia pumping 9.45 million barrels a day by June, Saudi officials said. That's about 2 million barrels below its capacity. Analysts also discounted the impact of the U.S. Energy Department's announcement that it would cancel shipments into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for six months beginning July 1.

It's time to turn this Kingdom into Helldom....

obieone

OR....We could start drilling in OUR backyard!, Then tell the oil co.'s to start building refineries, OR ELSE!!!

Polkitup2

Drive less.

treitz3

It sure is nice to know that we defend their country and don't ask for anything after spending bukoo bucks. Yet, when we ask them to do something as simple as increasing the oil production, they give us basically squat? How much of the US do they own again?

Ok, so we could start the Bakken foundation's oil pumping, totally cut them off and if they get attacked again, screw 'em. They can spend their OWN dough to defend themselves. It's NOT funny to me that the powers that be keep talking about the issue, yet nothing is being done about it. Meanwhile, the economy is going down the crapper and many Americans are not living "the American dream" anymore because they can't afford it.

Just my opinion, don't freak. I'm not worldly and I don't follow the world headlines like I used too. I'm just sayin........

sucks2beme

We have no real friends in that region. End of story. Bend over.
And when they're done there, China will have sloppy seconds.

cfrizz

Bingo! You want to have the convenience & luxury of driving everywhere then pay for the privilege & stop squawking about it.

Now if you work miles away from where you live with no public transportation then you don't have a choice. But if there is PT available to your job take it. If you are just running to a store, then take PT or walk.

Let the gas sit in the pumps for a month or 2 & prices will plummet. But so long as you all want to drive EVERYWHERE they will keep raising the prices.

Polkitup2 wrote: »

Drive less.

vonnie123

The answer is to drill domestically and limit our need for OPEC oil. Send all environmentalists to Venezuela to hang out with Hugo.

F1nut

It's time to turn this Kingdom into Helldom....

Works for me.

Jstas

Honestly? I don't think Saudi Arabia has it. I saw a show about oil reserves a couple of weeks ago. Not sure where I saw it. But many analysts around the world believe that Saudi Arabia has passed it's peak in oil production and is padding it's numbers so it doesn't lose the king of oil producers spot and there by it's controlling seat on OPEC.

treitz3

cfrizz wrote: »

Bingo! You want to have the convenience & luxury of driving everywhere then pay for the privilege & stop squawking about it.

Cathy, I hear you. I own a business that requires me to haul close to 10,000 lbs on a daily basis. It's not like I can switch to a motorcycle to save gas or anything. For me, it's not a luxury. It's a necessity. It's something I have to factor into making my livelihood.

I take my wife's Sentra for any personal trips which have pretty much come to a screeching hault. The way of life I knew two years ago has dramatically changed. It's not like I'm hurting, but damn. Close to $4.00 a gallon? ****, it's been averaging what? $1.40 to $1.70 for the past 15-20 years?

I pay more for gas than I do for my mortgage, all of my insurance policies combined, utilities, car payments [both of them] and with the latest prices of gas, you can throw in all of my credit cards as well. There is NOTHING I can do about it either. I can't get a donkey or twelve to move my trailer and all other associated gear?

So, for folks like me.....I feel I have a RIGHT to complain. I have no luxury you talk of.

MacLeod

So Bush wants the Saudi's to increase production? WHY DONT WE?!?!?!

Billions of barrels of oil just sitting there on our own soil and we do NOTHING!

treitz3

That's what aggravates me McLeod. Nothing. Nothing but talk.

sucks2beme

And if the price is high enough, they'll sell it offshore. And how long will it last?
30 years from now, what then? We had 36 years from the first oil problem in 1972.
Kinda like social security. Nobody wants to talk about really fixing the problem.
Demand real answers. I don't care if the next president is getting
BJ's, or about abortion or **** marriage! This is a problem that should be
priority one. Gas tax relief is another BS way around the problem.
Demand real problems get real solutions. STOP ALL THE FLUFF IN
AMERICAN POLITICS.

MacLeod

Oil problems in the 70's? We havent built any new refineries or nuclear power plants since the 70's! We've had a ban on drilling off the coast for 25 years! This is STILL the problem of the 70's!

Technology will eventually come up with an answer just like it always does but its going to take time and until it gets here lets use the plentiful, practical and efficient energy source we have now - oil!

tcrossma

cfrizz wrote: »

Bingo! You want to have the convenience & luxury of driving everywhere then pay for the privilege & stop squawking about it.

Now if you work miles away from where you live with no public transportation then you don't have a choice. But if there is PT available to your job take it. If you are just running to a store, then take PT or walk.

Let the gas sit in the pumps for a month or 2 & prices will plummet. But so long as you all want to drive EVERYWHERE they will keep raising the prices.

Driving less isn't an option for most of the country. Public transportation is great if you live right in the city, but isn't a viable option otherwise. It's also not an option for travel, which is done a lot in the summer and why gas prices usually increase drastically during that period. I don't think "driving less" is the answer here... it's just not going to happen.

I don't disagree that gas prices are getting crazy, but so is everything else, at least around here. A gallon of gas costs less than a gallon of milk here. A cheeseburger at a local restaurant costs over $10. Salaries are through the roof. Construction labor is CRAZY expensive here. My mechanic charges $100 per hour. I spend more on Wendy's each week than I do on gas (just a salad and an ice tea cost almost $8/day). Crazy stuff.

cfrizz

My 2nd paragraph made exception for people like you T3. I do feel for the truck drivers etc who haul our goods from one end of the country to the other. So my comments weren't aimed at you specifically but at others who DO have other options but just don't want to utilize them.

treitz3 wrote: »

Cathy, I hear you. I own a business that requires me to haul close to 10,000 lbs on a daily basis. It's not like I can switch to a motorcycle to save gas or anything. For me, it's not a luxury. It's a necessity. It's something I have to factor into making my livelihood.

I take my wife's Sentra for any personal trips which have pretty much come to a screeching hault. The way of life I knew two years ago has dramatically changed. It's not like I'm hurting, but damn. Close to $4.00 a gallon? ****, it's been averaging what? $1.40 to $1.70 for the past 15-20 years?

I pay more for gas than I do for my mortgage, all of my insurance policies combined, utilities, car payments [both of them] and with the latest prices of gas, you can throw in all of my credit cards as well. There is NOTHING I can do about it either. I can't get a donkey or twelve to move my trailer and all other associated gear?

So, for folks like me.....I feel I have a RIGHT to complain. I have no luxury you talk of.

sucks2beme

This should be the big issue for the election. Cranking up domestic drilling
MIGHT stabilize prices. Even if we were to cut our use,
and increase prodution, China and India are becoming big time oil
consumers. If we cut 10% and China's use goes up 10%, we're still
screwed.

treitz3

I'm just thinking out loud here, but if everybody [well, most everybody] is getting bent over by gas prices, why is nothing being done? We are sitting on the Bakken oil reserves. We have Alaska and the offshore. Why are we still relying on countries that apparently from my point of view don't give a crap about us, but do care about there own wealth [greed] and we are not doing what we [as a nation] NEED to do?

I feel bad on a daily basis knowing how my situation is, thinking about the seniors who are on a fixed income. Bless there hearts. I have no clue how they do it. You don't know how bad I feel for them. It's hard enough just being a senior in today's economy, let alone this issue.

Some of the recent ads I have seen on Craigslist have included...."Need to sell, desperate to feed my family". THAT breaks my heart.

DarqueKnight

obieone wrote: »

OR....We could start drilling in OUR backyard!, Then tell the oil co.'s to start building refineries, OR ELSE!!!

vonnie123 wrote: »

The answer is to drill domestically and limit our need for OPEC oil. Send all environmentalists to Venezuela to hang out with Hugo.

MacLeod wrote: »

So Bush wants the Saudi's to increase production? WHY DONT WE?!?!?!

Billions of barrels of oil just sitting there on our own soil and we do NOTHING!

I hope those billions of barrels stay right where they are, at least for the near future.

I don't see where it makes much sense for us to use up our oil reserves when other countries are willing to pump theirs dry. Oil is, after all, a non-renewable resource.

One of the best bargaining chips we have is that the Saudis (and other oil producing countries) know that we have our own substantial oil reserves. If prices get crazy to the point that Americans are rioting over oil prices, you can be assured that oil will start flowing from our own sources. Contrast that with European countries, most of whom have no oil reserves and where the average price of a gallon of "petrol" is 6 bucks.

Another thing going for us is that, if push comes to shove, we have the technology to wean ourselves off of oil. I don't see us doing that until we have too.

In the long run, you have to wonder what oil producing countries, such as Saudi Arabia, will do once their black gold runs out.

Complain less. Count your blessings. It's good to be an American.:)

danger boy

one of my coworkers just bought a brand new Audi A4 so she can drive to work. she lives.. i kid you not.. about 1/2 of a block from work.

oh yeah. she loves the car too.

treitz3

Thing is....if we start drilling, who says we need to share? Saudies say it's their oil and they will not increase production....fine. We will just not offer any production [EDIT:]for them. What's wrong with that?

mrmusicman

HMMM...Saudi? Did we forget that a majority of the highjackers from 9/11 were from this country,and George W. went over there with his two lips attached to their asses begging to raise oil production.:rolleyes:

treitz3

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Another thing going for us is that, if push comes to shove, we have the technology to wean ourselves off of oil. I don't see us doing that until we have too.

Why does it have to be that way? Pushing, shoving and suffering are not needed [let alone wanted]. The global economy is suffering. Americans are suffering. We have the solution. Why don't we utilize it?

Dennis Gardner

Gas is still cheap at $4/gal. since it was $1 a gallon when oil was $12 a barrel. It would be $8 a gallon if you take that into consideration.

Even at around the $100 mark, sweet crude from current sources are cheaper than all of these (new) discoveries you are hearing about. Most of the discoveries in our part of the world are so deep and difficult to get to (7 miles below the ocean surface) that it will take oil staying over the $100 a barrel to make it worthwhile to drill for it.

Deep ocean, ANWR, Canadian shale oil, are all inferior choices today compared to the sweet crude that is on the market even at the current price.

Cheap fuel is simply gonna be one of those stories we tell our grandkids......

schwarcw

DarqueKnight wrote: »

I hope those billions of barrels stay right where they are, at least for the near future.

I don't see where it makes much sense for us to use up our oil reserves when other countries are willing to pump theirs dry. Oil is, after all, a non-renewable resource.

Another thing going for us is that, if push comes to shove, we have the technology to wean ourselves off of oil. I don't see us doing that until we have too.

In the long run, you have to wonder what oil producing countries, such as Saudi Arabia, will do once their black gold runs out.

Complain less. Count your blessings. It's good to be an American.:)

Amen Raife!

Oil will become more and more valuable as it is limited. More importantly, it is an absolute waste of resources to burn it. Oil burned to produce electric power is an environmental and energy disaster.

We should use nuclear power to provide at least 70% of our energy, similiar to what France, Japan, Korea and other countries do. Additionally, we should develop a hydrogen burning car, using a hydride or another safe source to store hydrogen in the automobile. Use nuclear power to produce electricity, use the electricity to hydrolyze water into hydrogen and oxygen. Us the hydrogen for our cars. When hydrogen burns the exhaust gas is water vapor. Absolutely no polutants.

Instead of burning coal we should convert it into liquid chemicals and jet fuel. Similiar to what the Germans did in WWII, but more advance. The liquid hydrocarbons are needed as chemical feedstock for plastics and textiles.

Whoever thinks that an electric car that you plug into the wall is only a partial answer. If the electricity comes from burning gas or oil, then this automobile is actually more poluting because the thermodynamic efficiency to get power to the wheels of the automobile in much less than it would be just burning the hydrocarbon fuel in an internal combustion engine.

And like Raife said, we have all this technology NOW!!!!

The problem is we don't have politicians who know how to form an energy policy. This situation is a direct result of having non-technical people (like lawyers) who make up the bulk of our governing body to make political decisions about technical problems.

Very sad, and we are all paying for it.

DarqueKnight

treitz3 wrote: »

Why does it have to be that way? Pushing, shoving and suffering are not needed [let alone wanted]. The global economy is suffering. Americans are suffering. We have the solution. Why don't we utilize it?

Because a politically significant number of people aren't demanding it.

DarqueKnight

schwarcw wrote: »

The problem is we don't have politicians who know how to form an energy policy.

Oh, they [the politicians] know full well how to form an effective energy policy. They just don't know how to turn their backs on all that good money from the oil lobby. Money talks.;)

schwarcw

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Oh, they [the politicians] know full well how to form an effective energy policy. They just don't know how to turn their backs on all that good money from the oil lobby. Money talks.;)

Maybe, but I think you give them too much credit Raife. I don't mind the oil companies making money, because who owns them? The answer is most of us who own a 401K or a pension. Everyone of these money mangers have money in oil stock. Besides, if they had so much influence, why did oil company and energy stock suck for 20 years. Check the stock prices and the dividends, they got out performed by a large percentage of the market. Oh they've done well in the last couple months, but for many years how many drilling sites were abondoned in Texas and Oaklahoma.

The trick is to own oil at the right time, because it will take a big jump. I owned oil (including exploration) and energy stock from 1983 through 1997. It went nowhere! How may oil companies wer swallowed by the larger oil companies during those years? Remember Texaco, Gulf, Atlantic Richfield, Sun Oil, Boron, Sohio, Standard Oil of Indiana - all gone. Why? Their stock value was nearly worthless and their revenues dismall. If anyone tells you there is an oil company consiracy theory, they really don't understand the market. Oil is probably the most competitive product in the world. Supply changes result in major price adjustments up and down. Back in 1999, gasloline went to below $1 a gallon in Pennsylvania, in real dollars, it was cheaper than it was in 1972 prior to the first Arab oil embargo. Supply and demand, like Cathy said, if we just cut out 10 miles a week for two months, inventories would rise and prices would fall. Cut use by 10% or more and the bottom would fall out of the prices. This is simple economics 101 people!!!

Carl

DarqueKnight

schwarcw wrote: »

Besides, if they [oil companies] had so much influence, why did oil company and energy stock suck for 20 years. Check the stock prices and the dividends, they got out performed by a large percentage of the market.

Even when energy stock prices were in the toilet and dividends were non-existent, energy company senior executives did very well. To that select group of privileged individuals, preservation of their lifestyle, perks and pay packages is of paramount importance. Even those CEO's whose performance was less than stellar were able to negotiate multi-million dollar severance packages. It's nice work if you can get it.

But I digress. Oil companies themselves would be extinct if they weren't spending tons of money to discourage the development of alternative fuels. Eventually, the oil companies will go extinct like the dinosaurs, which is sort of ironic within the context of "fossil" fuels.

schwarcw

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Even when energy stock prices were in the toilet and dividends were non-existent, energy company senior executives did very well. To that select group of privileged individuals, preservation of their lifestyle, perks and pay packages is of paramount importance. Even those CEO's whose performance was less than stellar were able to negotiate multi-million dollar severance packages. It's nice work if you can get it.

But I digress. Oil companies themselves would be extinct if they weren't spending tons of money to discourage the development of alternative fuels. Eventually, the oil companies will go extinct like the dinosaurs, which is sort of ironic within the context of "fossil" fuels.

Very true Raife. But he oil company executives severance packages fall far short of the huge separation packages given to bankers whose companies lost billions and are foreclosing on the poor middle class americans. These behaviors affect real people. Large incentive pacages give to oil exec's amount to a fraction of a cent of the price of fuel.

Check out the performance of Exxon stock over the last 30 years. These numbers show slow growth. the brockers advide on Wall street was to see. And remember Exxon was the strongest of all the American oil companies.

Bottom line, these is no consiracy by oil companies to maximzie profits. They are a windfall of the world market palce. Even Hilliary Clinton is making out and lying to the public about the dynamics of the oil business to her owb so called blind portfolio. Yeah right:(

Check out Exxon's performance, pretty dismal.

http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Exxon_Mobil_(XOM)/WikiChart

DarqueKnight

Poor, poor Exxon.:(