Moving into new house; Please advise on 7.1 LSi speaker layout

2

Comments

  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited March 2008
    GelatinousFury wrote: »
    We (wife and I) will definitely be listening to music on this system. Thanks for the offer but I'm not looking to change out amps just yet.

    Wasn't really serious about it, I think you're better off getting the best sounding 2ch amp for your mains when the time is right.
    GelatinousFury wrote: »
    Mainly looking to take care of the question of "Is it worth it (packing + shipping cost) to get rid of the LSiFX's and get some direct speakers (LSi9, etc.) for the back surrounds instead".

    With that kind of layout, maybe. It will most likely sound better with 9's but surrounds are the extra spice in the mix, not the main ingredient so whether it's worth it is up to your wallet to decide. Don't shy away from 7's either, they are more than enough for surround duty. Budget wise 7's are your best option hands down.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited March 2008
    GelatinousFury wrote: »
    That would work but I already have the LSiFX's for the rear surrounds here with me now. If it really comes down to it, I guess I could try posting an even trade offer on the classifieds here....my ebony LSiFX's for some ebony LSi9's (want to keep the price even I guess). May as well have all LSi9's and LSiFX's.

    So you think the FX's in back corners toed in set to bipole mode would sound that bad???

    If you already have the speakers, I would just try them out and see how it goes. If you have anyone near you with LSi 7's or 9's it might be worth just testing with them and see if it is worth the hassle to try and swap.

    I would not do it just to test things out though.

    Michael

    BTW - its not that they will sound bad, it is just that they are designed to be a few feet away from any walls (corners). I called Polk about my room and upgrading my 7's to the FX's. It was recommended to stay with the direct radiating over the fx's for my placement requirements. That being said - I have not heard the FX's close to a corner so you may be fine.
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited March 2008
    Thanks for the insight. I guess I'll keep the LSiFX's, toe them in a bit, set them to bipole and hope that the surround sounds great when I hook it all up. Side surrounds will be set to dipole.

    One good thing is that since I'll be using tall speaker stands for the back surrounds the wall will be untouched (except for the speaker wall outlet). If I do decide to change them out for LSi7's or 9's I can always add the B-Tech BT77 brackets to the wall later on.

    I think I'll fire off an email to Polk tech support about this issue as well. I'll post the response when I get it.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited March 2008
    Ok, all you Polkies have sent me over the deep end lol...I've been looking at 7ch amps all day. Truth be told I'm contemplating pulling the trigger on Adcom's big boy...the 7807. I can get a pretty nice deal on a "factory renewed" unit from an authorized retailer with a full manufacturer's warranty.

    Talk about impulse shopping taken to a new level, good God.

    450 watts x 7 @ 4 ohms would do nicely, I think ;)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited March 2008
    LOL. Hey, if you have money for it, have fun!

    Me, I think personally I'd be looking at a used Krell for that kind of coin... :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited March 2008
    Sami wrote: »
    LOL. Hey, if you have money for it, have fun!

    Me, I think personally I'd be looking at a used Krell for that kind of coin... :D


    That'd be a very nice acquisition but it looks like Audiogon pricing on a used Krell 7ch amp is about 4 grand (ouch!!), and it's 100 watts less per channel. The pricing on the Adcom I'm looking at is right at $2500.

    Unfortunately I can't comment on SQ because I've heard neither amps.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited March 2008
    No, a used 2ch Krell. IMHO you have more than enough for surrounds and centre, if it was me I would only be concerned in getting better music production out of the system (2 or 2.1 channel) and adding the best 2ch amp I could afford would do it. Also, don't be too concerned about watts, you'll get more satisfaction by getting the best sounding piece, not the most powerful.

    These are little bit more than the Adcom but they say obo... :)

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1210090882
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1211482046
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1211556368

    On budget:

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ddampstran&1211016324
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited March 2008
    Sami wrote: »
    No, a used 2ch Krell. IMHO you have more than enough for surrounds and centre, if it was me I would only be concerned in getting better music production out of the system (2 or 2.1 channel) and adding the best 2ch amp I could afford would do it. Also, don't be too concerned about watts, you'll get more satisfaction by getting the best sounding piece, not the most powerful.

    These are little bit more than the Adcom but they say obo... :)

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1210090882
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1211482046
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1211556368

    On budget:

    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ddampstran&1211016324

    LOL those Bryston amps put out 800w @ 4ohms. Wow.

    I haven't thought about taking this route. It may be my ignorance on the subject showing, but I just like the idea of having the same power through all 7 speakers. The Adcom amp is class A/AB so that's nice too.

    When we listen to music I don't believe it will be *too* critical. My primary music styles which I listen to are metal and acoustic guitar. I believe the acoustic guitar recordings would benefit from a higher quality 2ch amp moreso than a comparably priced 7ch amp. However, whether I would notice the distance I don't know.

    Those Bryston monoblocks sure are hot though!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited March 2008
    Woo hoo GF! Yeah that Adcom will certainly get the job done now & in the future!

    And I agree with you about equal power to all the speakers. Most of these guys like giving the back speakers the short end of the stick. But you will definately notice a nice difference with your rears getting that much power!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited March 2008
    Well cfrizz, I have to disagree with you. Putting that much power into your surrounds definitely is overkill, and waste of money.Those surrounds don't do a lot of work, and they don't require a lot of power.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited March 2008
    Sami wrote: »
    Well cfrizz, I have to disagree with you. Putting that much power into your surrounds definitely is overkill, and waste of money.Those surrounds don't do a lot of work, and they don't require a lot of power.

    Was looking around in McLoki's sig (KILLER amp btw, McLoki) and I found myself over at the Cinepro website:

    http://web.archive.org/web/19980420080055/cinepro.com/3k6.htm

    I notice that in the section called "real theater requires real power" the spectrograph of one short period in Independence Day shows that there are sounds in excess of 750 watts. I don't know for sure but I would guess that those sounds (being huge explosions) would largely be recreated through the surround channels as well as the mains.

    Am I completely wrong here? I have no idea. Just trying to think about this intuitively.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • brettw22
    brettw22 Posts: 7,623
    edited March 2008
    IMO, it's better to match your amps........it's the same logic as not having different fronts, center, and surrounds.

    Keep the lines the same and you'll be fine. If you want to lower the power but keep the same brand/line of amps, do that. For me though, I wouldn't consider it if it meant that I had to buy several amps.
    comment comment comment comment. bitchy.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • McLoki
    McLoki Posts: 5,231
    edited March 2008
    Keep in mind that page is from 1999 (or so) and it was designed to sell amplifiers.

    With that said, I do think there is benefit to providing good clean power to all channels. (I would not be opposed to a good 5 channel amp and a great 2 channel one for the front channels though) The spectragraph that they show is accurate, but to be using 5 - 10 watts for normal dialog as they suggest would mean (with the 87db efficient speakers they mention) that you are listening to dialog (with a 12' seating distance) would mean you are listening with a calibrated system at about +7. (0 being effing loud)

    I do not know that you need an amp that large, but there are benefits to quality amps (many of them large) beyond volume (including both bass and carity).

    I really like my Cinepro but I enjoy having something a little different. I can highly recommend them. With that being said, there are a lot of great amps out there. The hard part is, you have to decide what is right for you .

    Michael
    Mains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
    Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
    Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
    Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
    Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
    Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited March 2008
    Well I definitely have some thinking about this to do. For now I'm going to have an electrician come out to the new house and install a dedicated 20A circuit to supply power to whatever amplifier I use. Even if I don't need it right this second I will definitely need it sometime in the near future.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited April 2008
    Well feel free to disagree Sami.

    Once again, there is NO SUCH THING AS OVERKILL! All speakers benefit from more power no matter how much they get used.

    It's only a waste of money if you don't use the back speakers. It's only a waste of money if you do it all piece meal & buy 100wpc the first time & 125wpc the second time, etc. Just get something that will work with everything & be done with it. Buying the same type of gear over & over & over again just going up on the power a little at a time is a TRUE waste of money!

    Mine get used daily since I listen to all my music in Dolby surround mode. It sounds great & the back shine just as much as the front stage.

    If someone wants to do it right the first time, go big, get lots, then sit back & enjoy for years to come.
    Sami wrote: »
    Well cfrizz, I have to disagree with you. Putting that much power into your surrounds definitely is overkill, and waste of money.Those surrounds don't do a lot of work, and they don't require a lot of power.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Sami
    Sami Posts: 4,634
    edited April 2008
    cfrizz wrote: »
    All speakers benefit from more power no matter how much they get used.

    They don't.
    cfrizz wrote: »
    If someone wants to do it right the first time, go big, get lots

    See that's difference we have. You want the biggest and most powerful, I want the best.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited April 2008
    Sami wrote: »
    See that's difference we have. You want the biggest and most powerful, I want the best.

    Since "best" is completely relative, if someone simply wants a quality amp with the most headroom possible, then that's exactly what his/her best choice would be. However, if someone wants a super-elite SQ amp for music, then the best choice changes.

    It all comes down to what you desire...nothing wrong with either choice.

    In my case, I want a single high quality HT amp with 7 channels and lots of headroom.

    Here are the best options I've come across so far:

    Adcom 7807
    Power: 450 x 7 @ 4ohms
    Condition: Factory Renewed
    MSRP: $3600
    Price: $2500


    Sunfire TGA7400
    Power: 800 x 7 @ 4ohms
    Condition: New from dealer
    MSRP: $4500
    Price: $3400


    Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7
    Power: 600 x 7 @ 4ohms
    Condition: New from dealer
    MSRP: $6000
    Price: $2800

    After this morning I'm leaning towards the Earthquake...awesome power, quality, and price.

    Opinions?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited April 2008
    Well said GF!

    Any of those will do the job! You are going to have one ROCKING HT by the time you are done.

    Next years PolkFest will be at YOUR HOUSE!!!:D;):D
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited April 2008
    I say Earthquake.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited April 2008
    I agree with Sami, quality over quanitiy any day. I currently own and use amps from 8wpc -> 525wpc, many times synergy means a lower power amp is a better match. The Cinenova has both.

    I have directly compared a Sunfire Cinema Grand II 450x5 to a Earthquake Cinenova Grande 5 600x5 and much preferred the Earthquake. The sunfire was very nice especially for the money, but the Cinenova had more bass authority, had a little more detail in the highs, and overall just had more clarity, especially at lower volumes. I have tried Adcom and didn't like it that much, but it was a long time ago and I have no idea the model...all I know is it was ~200wpc x 2 into 8 ohms.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited April 2008
    Earthquake it is, then. I've read nothing but good things about them thus far. The warranty is excellent too, from what the dealer has told me. 10 years parts and labor, plus they pay for shipping both ways.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited April 2008
    Is the ne on the FM gone? Get that one.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited April 2008
    wingnut4772 wrote: »
    Is the ne on the FM gone? Get that one.

    I want a 7ch amp, not a 5ch amp. If I did want a 5ch, though, I'd be all over it right now :)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited April 2008
    Let's see here...

    Obviously I won't be able to connect the Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 to my Belkin PF60 Power Console. I'll have this monster on it's own 20A circuit. What kind of power devices should I be looking at for an amp such as this? Surge suppression? Power filtration?

    Anyone have any recommendations for larger amps?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited April 2008
    I recommend you direct wire it to the wall, hell skip the outlet and just make the 20A circuit one long power cord, thats what I did. Put a adapter on the end and call it a day.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited April 2008
    Gaara wrote: »
    I recommend you direct wire it to the wall, hell skip the outlet and just make the 20A circuit one long power cord, thats what I did. Put a adapter on the end and call it a day.

    Even so, there's no need for a surge suppressor?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited April 2008
    No. The unit has its own 20A circuit breaker and each of the modules has 2 10A fuses. It says right in the manual to plug it directly into the wall. It also has built in power filtration, it is a extremely quiet amp...at least mine is.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited April 2008
    Gaara wrote: »
    No. The unit has its own 20A circuit breaker and each of the modules has 2 10A fuses. It says right in the manual to plug it directly into the wall. It also has built in power filtration, it is a extremely quiet amp...at least mine is.

    NICE. Hey, about that manual (which isn't up for download on Earthquake's site, btw...what gives?), does the manual specify specifically to use a dedicated 20A circuit for this amp?

    Also, if I use a wall outlet does it require any specialty-type outlet or just a regular one?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Gaara
    Gaara Posts: 2,415
    edited April 2008
    "To ensure proper operation, make sure that a 20-ampere circuit is available where the amplifier is going to be plugged. If in doubt, consult with an electrician"

    I talked to Joseph (Chief Engineer) a while back and he said you need a 20amp line, and it was strongly recommended that it was a dedicated 20amp line. The same advice was given by my dealer.
    The Basement HT
    PC Rig
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • GelatinousFury
    GelatinousFury Posts: 82
    edited April 2008
    Gaara wrote: »
    "To ensure proper operation, make sure that a 20-ampere circuit is available where the amplifier is going to be plugged. If in doubt, consult with an electrician"

    I talked to Joseph (Chief Engineer) a while back and he said you need a 20amp line, and it was strongly recommended that it was a dedicated 20amp line. The same advice was given by my dealer.

    Excellent, thanks for the help!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter