Moving into new house; Please advise on 7.1 LSi speaker layout

GelatinousFury

I'm moving into a new house in a couple of months and I'm wondering if my proposed 7.1 speaker layout is acceptable.

Here's the audio portion of my setup (all components already purchased):

Receiver: Denon AVR-3808ci
Front Speakers: Polk LSi9
Center Speaker: Polk LSiC
Side Surround Speakers: Polk LSiFX
Back Surround Speakers: Polk LSiFX
Subwoofer: Velodyne SPL-1500R
Front+Center+Side Surround Amp: Rotel RMB-1075
Back Surround Amp: Using 2 channels of Denon 3808ci until I can buy a Rotel 2ch amp

Relevant specifics:
1. Front speakers will be placed on Sanus Ultimate speaker stands. One triple-speaker wall outlet will be installed behind the TV for the 2 front speakers as well as the center speaker.
2. Center speaker will be placed on glass component shelf in the TV stand (angled slightly upwards towards listener)
3. Side surround and Back surround speakers flush-mounted on walls. Speaker wall outlets will be installed by each speaker.
4. I really want the A/V rack to be on the side of the room in order to keep the "clean" aesthetic of the front wall where the TV/speakers will be. I already have all the wall outlets and in-wall rated cables for this to work.

If anyone has any general comments/observations/issues with the proposed setup, I'd like to hear them now so I can change my setup around if I wish.

Otherwise, I'll get to the questions:
1. Look at how the 2 back surround LSiFX speakers are mounted in the layout picture I've created below. Notice that the back-right LSiFX is pointing toward the front of the room while the back-left LSiFX is pointing a different direction. Will this negatively affect the quality of the surround sound when viewing movies? As far as I can tell I can't see any other way to mount them.

2. How should the side surround and rear surround LSiFX's be set with regards to dipole/bipole mode?






THANKS!

Sami

Find a way to get the SL/SR at the same level as your seating area. SBL and SBR closer to the centre and pointing towards the seating area. If nothing else works, get them connected from ceiling. I'd rather have them higher than optimal height than at the wrong direction.

GelatinousFury

Sami wrote: »

Find a way to get the SL/SR at the same level as your seating area. SBL and SBR closer to the centre and pointing towards the seating area. If nothing else works, get them connected from ceiling. I'd rather have them higher than optimal height than at the wrong direction.

The only way for any of this to happen is to use ceiling mounts, which I am absolutely clueless about for speakers as heavy as the LSiFX. The SL/SR speakers can't be moved towards the rear of the room any because there is a big double-window in the way. Also, to put the back surround speakers near the center of the back wall I'd have to have super-tall speaker stands directly in the opening that separates the kitchen from this room, which I definitely don't want to do.

So, it's either this setup in the pic above, or ceiling mount all 4 LSiFX surround speakers on a 10' ceiling....:eek:

My original plan was to use B-Tech BT77 wall mounts and just swivel the SBL speaker towards the listening area. That won't work, though, because the LSiFX's are too wide for the BT77 wall mounts.

Anyone got a quick 101 on ceiling mounts for LSiFX speakers so I can evaluate this route?

GelatinousFury

Been searching ceiling mounts from various manufacturer's for a little while now and I'm not turning up any options whatsoever which can work with a 24lb speaker. It seems that I may be stuck with the layout which the picture in the initial post presents.

Would it be any better if I could find some tall speaker stands (like these) to put the back surround speakers on? The back surround speakers would still be far apart but at least this way I'd be able to have both back surround speakers facing forwards. Here's a pic of what I mean:

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk.

You really should consider getting the Rotel 1095 instead of the 1075. The LSI's would appreciate the extra power & so would you. The more power you feed them the better they sound & the less chance of damage to the speakers.

Do a search here on the forum about LSI's & power.

GelatinousFury

cfrizz wrote: »

Welcome to Club Polk.

You really should consider getting the Rotel 1095 instead of the 1075. The LSI's would appreciate the extra power & so would you. The more power you feed them the better they sound & the less chance of damage to the speakers.

Do a search here on the forum about LSI's & power.

Thanks for the welcome

Actually, my long term "master plan" includes upgrading the amps to a Rotel 1095 and 1080 (for all 7 channels), so we're definitely thinking on the same page! Either that or an Outlaw 7700. Any suggestions for my speaker layout issue I've detailed above?

GelatinousFury

anonymouse wrote: »

With the amount you are spending on the speaks, do not scrimp on the wire. Given that you are getting in wall wiring, consider the Blue Jeans Ten White or similar.

I've already purchased a *large* spool of Monoprice 12awg CL2 speaker cable. I did some research on the subject and I'm under the impression that this wire would do very nicely. I just checked out the BJC Ten White and it looks like some stellar speaker cable.

I did, however, order my 45ft HDMI in-wall cable from Blue Jeans Cable (got the very nice Series-1 cable). It was by far the highest quality HDMI cable I could find with least amount of signal loss.

GelatinousFury

I was looking on the DTS website at the recommended 7.1 layout section and stumbled upon the "7.1 Front Wide" speaker layout. I think it closely resembles the layout of my room:




Things are looking up for the layout...things may work out yet!

GelatinousFury

anonymouse wrote: »

Never tried the monoprice speaker cables, but I do have some of their HDMI cables and they are of good quality. I used the Blue Jeans 10 white to hook up my surroundbar and I'm very pleased.

I am using Monoprice HDMI 1.3a cables exclusively in my A/V rack with the exception of the 45ft in-wall run to the TV, which will be the Blue Jeans Cable Series-1 cable. The Monoprice HDMI cables are very high quality but I was concerned with signal loss at such a long length. The BJC Series-1 cable seemed like the best bet for that particular situation.

I received the Monoprice 12awg CL2 speaker wire in the mail yesterday and it does seem like very high quality speaker wire. I have 20 days to return it but after inspecting it I believe it's a keeper

wingnut4772

GelatinousFury wrote: »

I was looking on the DTS website at the recommended 7.1 layout section and stumbled upon the "7.1 Front Wide" speaker layout. I think it closely resembles the layout of my room:




Things are looking up for the layout...things may work out yet!

I don't think that's what you think it is? It appears that the R and L surrounds are just that and not rear surrounds...?

BTW welcome and I LOVE your screenname.

GelatinousFury

wingnut4772 wrote: »

I don't think that's what you think it is? It appears that the R and L surrounds are just that and not rear surrounds...?

BTW welcome and I LOVE your screenname.

Thanks and you're exactly right, I didn't read the speaker labels correctly. Kind of a weird configuration, isn't it? 4 front speakers? I mean, no matter where you move the speakers to they're still getting the same DTS 7.1 information...

Back to the drawing board I guess lol

wingnut4772

GelatinousFury wrote: »

Thanks and you're exactly right, I didn't read the speaker labels correctly. Kind of a weird configuration, isn't it? 4 front speakers? I mean, no matter where you move the speakers to they're still getting the same DTS 7.1 information...

Back to the drawing board I guess lol

I dunno but it has me intrigued. I was trying to get more info as to the benefit, hook up etc..but I can't find anything further. I know they make mounts for heavy speakers. I had some holding my old LSIFX's. I'll see if I can find the site I bought them from and give you a linky.

wingnut4772

Try this site. I bought mine from them.

Mounts
I think mine were the Omnimounts.

GelatinousFury

wingnut4772 wrote: »

Try this site. I bought mine from them.

Mounts
I think mine were the Omnimounts.

Thanks. Did you get the Omnimount 20.0, 30.0 or 60.0? I see that if you choose the 60.0 then you have to choose from a ton of different mounting configurations on a drop down list. I dunno if the 20.0 would work because the LSiFX's are 24lbs each.

Omnimount 20.0

Omnimount 30.0

Omnimount 60.0

wingnut4772

GelatinousFury wrote: »

Thanks. Did you get the Omnimount 30.0 or 60.0? I see that if you choose the 60.0 then you have to choose from a ton of different mounting configurations on a drop down list.

I;m sorry. I don't remember exactly... I do remember I had to finnagle the connection to get it to work on the speaker...:o

GelatinousFury

Well, the Omnimount 30.0 ceiling mounts would be a nice choice (weight-wise) for the LSiFX's but the problem is the big mounting plate that has to be screwed into the back of the speaker. Aside from drilling into my LSiFX's, which I don't want to do, I doubt there would even be room for it with the LSi's Power Ports on the back.

Edit: Yep, just checked the back of one of my LSiFX's...definitely not enough room for the mounting plate.




Not to mention, the things are anywhere from $60-80 EACH, putting 4 of them right at $240-320.

There are definitely higher forces at work here, and in this case I'm on the losing end

Sami

GelatinousFury wrote: »

The Monoprice HDMI cables are very high quality but I was concerned with signal loss at such a long length.

Monoprice 50ft HDMI's work well, I have two 50ft runs, one from my media centre to bedroom and one for projector.

GelatinousFury

Sami wrote: »

Monoprice 50ft HDMI's work well, I have two 50ft runs, one from my media centre to bedroom and one for projector.

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely keep that in mind if I ever need any more long HDMI runs.

GelatinousFury

Ok folks I believe I'm converging on a solution that'll work. This information may help some of you out there if you are researching correct 7.1 speaker placement.

THX recommends that the back surround speakers be placed close together at the center of the rear wall. I did some researching, however, and found that this is only the recommended layout IF you are using THX ASA (Advanced Speaker Array) technology in your receiver. This feature apparently gives you an option in the receiver setup to pick from all those THX room layouts which are on the THX website. If your receiver has THX Select 2 or THX Ultra 2 then you have this feature available.

Over at the AVS forum it is widely recommended to use the recommended Dolby 7.1 layout unless you are using THX ASA in your receiver. In my case I'm not, so I'm going with the Dolby 7.1 layout:





1. As you can see, the back surrounds are spaced much further apart in this layout. Also, I did read that if your back surrounds have to be spaced further apart than recommended (as is my case) then toeing in your back surround speakers just a bit will help localize the sound. So, that's what I did on my layout. Back surrounds on tall (adjustable up to 59") stands, toed inwards a bit.

2. As for the side surrounds, there isn't much I can do regarding the placement. They pretty much have to stay where they are (on the wall) on my HT layout. What I could do, though, is move the couch forwards based on various seating distance calculators found all over the internet. A quick trip to one of these sites tells me with my 56" widescreen TV, the THX recommended viewing distance is 6.3 feet. So, I started drawing everything to scale on my HT layout and it turns out the couch needed to be moved towards the TV. This helped align the listener position with the side surrounds a LOT. My hopes are that I can lay this issue to rest.

So, in summary, I used the recommended Dolby 7.1 layout and toed the back surround speakers in. I also moved the seating position forward a bit to allow for correct THX-recommended viewing distance.

Here's the latest layout with these changes made:




I'm getting close!!

cfrizz

Why buy amplification twice? Just get the 1095/1080 or the 7700 now & be done with the amplification side of it now.

That is going to be one rocking HT room when it's all put together.

GelatinousFury wrote: »

Thanks for the welcome

Actually, my long term "master plan" includes upgrading the amps to a Rotel 1095 and 1080 (for all 7 channels), so we're definitely thinking on the same page! Either that or an Outlaw 7700. Any suggestions for my speaker layout issue I've detailed above?

GelatinousFury

cfrizz wrote: »

Why buy amplification twice? Just get the 1095/1080 or the 7700 now & be done with the amplification side of it now.

That is going to be one rocking HT room when it's all put together.

If only I knew when I originally bought the Rotel 1075 (couple of years ago) what I know now. Back then I only thought I needed the 200wpc that the LSi9's were rated for (and I only needed 5 channels). If I had it to do over again I would've went ahead and bought a massive 7ch amp and future-proofed my amplification setup. After thinking things over a little since that last post I believe that (when I have the funds available) I'll sell the Rotel 1075 and just get an Outlaw 7700 and be done with it. I wish Rotel would make a monster 7ch amp comparable to the Outlaw 7700 because I've been really happy with the quality of the Rotel.

I don't find too many (actually, any) used Outlaw 7700's though, and I prefer to buy used/excellent condition for the savings. At $2,241 shipped though...it may be a little while before I can splurge on that. 300w x 7ch at 4ohms would be amazing

Sami

So what's wrong with the 1075? It should have more than enough power for your speakers. Are you sure the Outlaw has improved sonics?

GelatinousFury

Sami wrote: »

So what's wrong with the 1075? It should have more than enough power for your speakers. Are you sure the Outlaw has improved sonics?

I'm pretty much going on what I've read on the forums here and nothing more. I've never even heard an Outlaw amp. All I know at this point is that more often than not I've read here on the forums to put a humongous amp on the LSi's lol

McLoki

In that room, I would use direct radiating for the surround backs. (maybe LSi7's) Put them on a mount like this and point them about 2 feet behind and above the main seating position.

To close to the walls for bi-di poles imo.

Michael

brettw22

I don't like SBL in the corner........If you can bring that 2-3 foot off that side wall that would be better, with SBR to match distance from couch.

cfrizz

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1210799010

GelatinousFury

McLoki wrote: »

In that room, I would use direct radiating for the surround backs. (maybe LSi7's) Put them on a mount like this and point them about 2 feet behind and above the main seating position.

To close to the walls for bi-di poles imo.

Michael

That would work but I already have the LSiFX's for the rear surrounds here with me now. If it really comes down to it, I guess I could try posting an even trade offer on the classifieds here....my ebony LSiFX's for some ebony LSi9's (want to keep the price even I guess). May as well have all LSi9's and LSiFX's.

So you think the FX's in back corners toed in set to bipole mode would sound that bad???

GelatinousFury

cfrizz wrote: »

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampsmult&1210799010

Wow, wish I had the money to get that now.

ShinAce

I would go with the first layout but have the SBR match the orientation of the other three(SL, SR, SBL).

Sami

GelatinousFury wrote: »

I'm pretty much going on what I've read on the forums here and nothing more. I've never even heard an Outlaw amp. All I know at this point is that more often than not I've read here on the forums to put a humongous amp on the LSi's lol

Take those power "requirement" posts with a grain of salt. Do you listen to music with that system a lot? If not, stick to what you have. If yes, buy the best sounding 2ch amp you can afford or are willing to spend, and use it for your main L/R.

If you absolutely want 300WPC for your LSi's, I'll trade my Sherbourn 5/1500 for your Rotel + cash. IMO better sonics than both the amps you're looking at, and much better power section (5 monoblocks in single chassis).

GelatinousFury

Sami wrote: »

Take those power "requirement" posts with a grain of salt. Do you listen to music with that system a lot? If not, stick to what you have. If yes, buy the best sounding 2ch amp you can afford or are willing to spend, and use it for your main L/R.

If you absolutely want 300WPC for your LSi's, I'll trade my Sherbourn 5/1500 for your Rotel + cash. IMO better sonics than both the amps you're looking at, and much better power section (5 monoblocks in single chassis).

We (wife and I) will definitely be listening to music on this system. Thanks for the offer but I'm not looking to change out amps just yet.

Mainly looking to take care of the question of "Is it worth it (packing + shipping cost) to get rid of the LSiFX's and get some direct speakers (LSi9, etc.) for the back surrounds instead".