What does "reference" mean?

DannyD

I always read about people talking about listening to music or movies at "reference" levels. What exaclty does this mean?

DeusExa

0 dB!

that's supposedly what DVDs/CDs are recorded for.

treitz3

Reference can mean a certain db level at a certain distance. Reference can mean with a certain "reference" track or song listening to it at a certain level as it relates to the individual.

Reference to some is performance levels, to some concert levels and to others, what one would consider normal listening levels. Your question is just as subjective as audio itself IMO. With each level of "reference" listening levels comes a different listening experience depending on the gear, speakers and recording material.

IMO reference levels can change with the genre of music as well.

jakelm

My reference level is 110dB's @ 14', Some people have a problem with that. I dont see the problem.:p

Frank Z

Wrong.

Reference level is the standard devleoped by Dolby Labs for optimum sound levels for audio reproduction generally associated with video/film playback. Reference level is typically 80dB. Look at your audio level control, notice the negative values? -30,-25,-15, etc, etc. All of those are the amount of dB below the refernce level.

jakelm

Frank Z wrote: »

Wrong.

Reference level is the standard devleoped by Dolby Labs for optimum sound levels for audio reproduction generally associated with video/film playback. Reference level is typically 80dB. Look at your audio level control, notice the negative values? -30,-25,-15, etc, etc. All of those are the amount of dB below the refernce level.

I hit 80dB's way before I get to 0

treitz3

Frank Z wrote: »

Wrong.

Reference level is the standard developed by Dolby Labs......

Oh, my bad. Apparently Dolby labs has "the" reference for all audio junkies. :rolleyes:

That is their reference only. You and I both know that +- 0db will differ with different gear and setups.

jakelm

treitz3 wrote: »

Oh, my bad. Apparently Dolby labs has "the" reference for all audio junkies. :rolleyes:

I thought THX was...:p

That is their reference only. You and I both know that +- 0db will differ with different gear and setups.

This posses an interesting question.

treitz3

jakelm wrote: »

This posses an interesting question.

It does. This thread will probably end up in the Hall of Shame, but it's definitely worth a discussion. DannyD asked a question and I believe he deserves an answer, this being an audio board and all.........

jakelm

It makes it easy to determine how high my volume control is. Going the other way like Onk does, I forget how high it goes. I know with my HK , theat zero is it. Well +/- depending on how I calibrate it.

Frank Z

And I gave the right answer, you did not.

jakelm

Frank Z wrote: »

And I gave the right answer, you did not.

Is it when they calibrate the reciever at the manufacture? How many volts the amp is putting out @ 0 level?

treitz3

Frank Z wrote: »

And I gave the right answer, you did not.

Link or it didn't happen.

Frank Z

Here ya go, now STFU and quit spouting off drivel when you don't WTF you're talking about newbie.

Sorry, I misspoke....85db

http://www.audiodesignline.com/howto/201202972;jsessionid=Y3VEOI4KY0EYOQSNDLQSKH0CJUNN2JVN?pgno=4

Reference Level: A reference value of 85dB is the Dolby Reference level used in movie theatres and movie
presentations. This level was set by the SMPTE (Society of Motion Pictures and Television) organisation to
ensure and achieve repeatable results of a finished product for cinema post-production work. For more
information on Dolby and for speaker setups, please visit their website at: http://www.dolby.com.

Taken from the following website.

http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/AWS900_calibration_tutorial.pdf

treitz3

Frank Z wrote: »

Here ya go, now STFU and quit spouting off drivel when you don't WTF you're talking about newbie.

I love you too. Refer to post # 3.

jakelm

Frank, good read. Do you have anymore info on how a AVR is calibrated as it pertains to the -85 to 0 on the AVR's volume scale?

Or is that why it reads-85, because it is zero. Being that 0 = 85dBs, then -85 = 0dB's?

But manufactures know that this isnt the case. That 0 doesnt necessarily mean 85dB's, So why do they use it?

Frank Z

As a matter of fact I do...


http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/12/amprule.shtm

And if that ain't dry enough for ya...

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/janqtr/pdf/16cfr432.2.pdf

jakelm

I think the volume scale on a AVR is purely for reference, not to be taken literally.

Frank Z

I think I've got a few others buried on thIs damn computer somewhere, I'll see what I can dig up.

jakelm

Frank Z wrote: »

As a matter of fact I do...


http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/12/amprule.shtm

And if that ain't dry enough for ya...

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/janqtr/pdf/16cfr432.2.pdf

Dry like a good Martini:D

jakelm

Frank Z wrote: »

I think I've got a few others buried on thIs damn computer somewhere, I'll see what I can dig up.

No thank you, that was dry enough.:D

But it doesnt explain the volume scale. Just explains how amps should be tested.

And like I said earlier, Onkyo does not use this standard, as do some other manufactures.

Actually now that I think about it, Onk goes the opposite way than my HK, Onk goes 0-85..

treitz3

Technically, 1 watt is "reference". Apply that to real life scenarios, it yields a different end result.

Frank Z

More gobblygook to burn your brain...
http://www.jimprice.com/prosound/db.htm

http://books.google.com/books?id=WTyDJA-zUNEC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=what+is+audio+reference+level&source=web&ots=uy6BYcXlMz&sig=6ajyl0zOAwcOQVj7dyM_ywm8qsA

Frank Z

treitz3 wrote: »

Technically, 1 watt is "reference". Apply that to real life scenarios, it yields a different end result.

You need to find a different hobby.

1 watt is 1 watt, that's it. It has nothing to do with reference level in any way shape or form.

1 watt of of power applied to a speaker will produce a volume of X dB measured at 1 meter from the speaker...that's the efficiency rating of a speaker.

treitz3

But...but, I read it off of one of your links....

Frank Z

Yeah, rght.

jakelm

Well there is no way of telling where your reference level is for movies. Since every movie is recorded at different levels.

You can pink noise it, but as soon as you put a movie in everything changes to the recording volume of that movie. I tryed to average the movie , but with no luck. The meter was all over the place.

Thats whats pretty cool about THX movies such as Star Wars. You can go to the pinknoise in the THX menu and the movie will be pretty close. By my ears it is.

I-SIG

Frank Z wrote: »

Here ya go, now STFU and quit spouting off drivel when you don't WTF you're talking about newbie.

Sorry, I misspoke....85db

Reference Level: A reference value of 85dB is the Dolby Reference level used in movie theatres and movie
presentations. This level was set by the SMPTE (Society of Motion Pictures and Television) organisation to
ensure and achieve repeatable results of a finished product for cinema post-production work. For more
information on Dolby and for speaker setups, please visit their website at: http://www.dolby.com.

Whatever, newbie. :cool:

Everyone that does cinema post-production work please chime in and raise your hand to be counted. :rolleyes:

Wes

jakelm

I-SIG wrote: »

Whatever, newbie. :cool:

Everyone that does cinema post-production work please chime in and raise your hand to be counted. :rolleyes:

Wes

I made my own Youtube vid, does that count??:p

steveinaz

Reference level is reached when your cheeks begin to flap, and you have difficulty breathing.

AndyGwis

Reference level is not truly attainable unless every piece of your audio system, including your cables, is THX Ultra 2 certified.

Anything else, and you may as well be listening to AM on a clock radio.