Rockford Gathering

Lowell_M

DKG999, Heiney9 and Daboyz came over today along with a couple of my other friends, Todd x2. No pictures this time, but a hell of a nice day.

We started off by me wanting to show off my 2-channel system a bit since these guys haven't heard my LSi15 setup yet. I'll let them comment about it if they wish since I'm a little biased. (see my sig for the initial setup)

My friend, Todd, brought over his new Sunfire TGA-7400 amp as well as a Carver M1.5t. Doug, as always, brought all kinds of shite... Marsh A200 amp, Dodd ELP Pre, Rotel 1072 CDP, lots o' cables, etc. Daboys brought his Carver M1.5t and a B&K Pre and H9 brought his ADCOM Integrated as well as a DAC from his computer system(forgot the brand of the DAC).

I was particularly interested in hearing a DAC comparison and then hearing the Rotel CDP since mine is a piece of crap. The Rotel was the winner in the DAC/CDP shootout and we used it for the rest of the listening sessions. The soundstage was a lot more open, clear and natural sounding. Definately a nice DAC in the Rotel.

Now, i've been stuck on my ADCOM kick since H9 got me hooked a year or so ago, so i'm always interested in hearing different amps. We next left the Rotel CDP connected and began to swap amps. I've never heard the mega-powerful Carver/Sunfire amps before, so was interested in them. We hooked up the Sunfire and must say that I think everybody in the room was a little dissappointed. Highs were very grainy and "airy" and the bass seemed to go away. There was a decent soundstage, but it seemed to suck the life out of the music compared to the ADCOM GFA-555. We quickly connected the M1.5t, which was an improvement over the Sunfire, but the bass still seemed to not be what it was with the ADCOM. With either of these Carver amps, the soundstage seemed to thin out and the music didn't seem as alive. The M1.5t was definately a better 2-channel choice over the TGA-7400 though. I expected an opposite experience in this comparison. We looped back around to the ADCOM to make sure our ears weren't lying and the bass came back and the 3rd dimension of the music spread back out.

Dkg999 sat eagerly in the corner with a **** grin ready to connect the Marsh. Now, he is sitting in the room with 2 ADCOM diehards.... The Marsh A200 is amazing. I love my ADCOM for the tight, bass slam that it has along with smooth vocals and highs. Well, the Marsh took similar characteristics to the next level. The bass attack is extremely precise, but chest pounding strong. This is not to say, though, that the bass overpowered the rest of the music. Everything was there, rock solid, with a clear, natural soundstage. I didn't know you could get accurate, strong bass out of these speakers like we heard. ....Just unbelievable.....really.

let's see... next comes the pre-amps. The Dodd Pre-amp sounds pretty sweet, I must say, but the laid back, muddy detail of tubes just isn't for me. The B&K seemed to completely close off the emotion of the music and made it sound boring. We were then listening to speakers, not music. Get what I'm saying? The Nakamichi CA-5, of course, still shines at the top for me with fantastic detail and amazing dynamics.

There was more, but I will leave some of my other impressions for later in the discussion, as I'm sure the other have some impressions to post.

This was another great gathering with some great people. I live in a townhome, so I don't have a huge amount of room and probably won't be nominated for neighbor of the year anytime soon. What a great group of people though. We learn something new about this hobby each time we get together.

tonyb

Glad you boy's had a good time.I hear Doug always has that ****-eatin' grin on his face.

TB Cruzer

I was VERY impressed with the Marsh amp. If I had a 2 dhannel rig, it would be in it.

I was dissapointed with my Sunfire 7400 for 2 channel use. I will be getting my Sunfire TGP-5 processor this week. I'm curious to see how it sounds as a system. Also, I use my rig for 90% home theater, and my SVS sub will fill the bass void we all heard.

This was the first one of these events I've been to and it was great to hear the differeces in the gear. I would like to do another get together with more of a home theater emphasis.

A_Mattison, you forgot to mention the speaker cable comparison.

Lowell_M

TB Cruzer wrote: »

This was the first one of these events I've been to and it was great to hear the differeces in the gear. I would like to do another get together with more of a home theater emphasis.

A_Mattison, you forgot to mention the speaker cable comparison.

I was going to let H9 talk more about the speaker cable comparison because I don't know exactly what the silver cable was that he brought.

As a preview for you all and the beginning of another cable debate... All 6 of us heard a definitive difference between my Canare Star Quads and whatever it was H9 brought. Believe it cable haters!!!

I'd like to hear your Sunfire in a HT setup as well. The Rockford crew is mostly 2-channel crazy, but I've never compared the performance of HT amps. I'll bring my GFA-7000 over sometime.

dkg999

First of all, I would like to thank Aaron for hosting this get together! I know he will be blaming the state of disarray of the house on all of us that attended when his lovely and charming wife returns to town :eek:

These meetings are always informative and eye-opening. I had hoped to compare the SDA 2A's with RDO tweeters to the LSi15's and provide Daboyz with a good preview of the SDA's. Unfortunately they had sat in boxes for a few years and one of the drivers was locked. I'll be putting in an order to Polk CS for a new driver and then we can play with the SDA's at a future meeting.

The CDP vs DAC comparison was interesting. I had really figured even an older DAC, or an inexpensive DAC would be better than what a manufacturer puts in a CDP (even Rotel!). I was quite pleased at how well the Rotel RCD-1072 sounded in comparison. I usually use it in a headphone rig at my place in IA. I use the Rotel CDP with an ASL headphone amp and my Grado SR-225 headphones. I knew it sounded really good in that configuration. It also seemed to really mate well with Aaron's Nak CA5 pre and the LSi15's.

I knew the Marsh amp was very good, both from reviews and from the limited time I had experimented with it in different systems. I'm neutral on Adcom amps, I don't always agree with the graininess that some find in them, and sometimes I do find the bass slightly exagerrated on the Adcom's. That said I have a 7605 in an HT system that I'm very happy with. In listening to Brock and Aaron's systems with Adcoms I've come to have a new appreciation for the Adcom amps. I also hadn't listened to a Carver amp in a long time. As I related at the gathering, a long time ago at a Carver roadshow at AudioLabs in Des Moines IA I found Bob Carver to be such a pompous a-hole that I swore I would never buy any Carver gear, and in the 30 or more years since, I haven't! The Carver 1.5(?) that we listened to had great detail, seemed very neutral (and H9 and I have differing definitions of what neutral is ), but lacked a fluid presentation of the music compared to the Adcom and Marsh amps. It was a bit dry for my tastes, but certainly not bad sounding. I was disappointed by the Sunfire amp. I guess I was expecting a more musically inclined amp. I would love to hear it in an HT application because there it may shine. And yes there was a reason I didn't hook up the Marsh amp until last Of course I offered up a full disclaimer that it didn't meet the 200 wpc requirement to get full performance out of LSi speakers

The speaker cable comparison absolutely floored me. This was the first time I heard a major and immediate difference between two speaker cables. In past comparison I had heard more subtle differences. I am not sure if the differences we heard are characteristics of silver vs copper cables or not. The silver cables had a more full vocal presentation, but added some simbilance with less air around the music. With the silver cables some of the ability for the music to float out into the room was lost and the soundstage seemed to move back. IMHO the Canare S411 cable is one of the best inexpensive speaker cables out there, and this test further confirmed that.

Good people, new people joining our gathering, great gear, excellent beer, good discussion, sharing of opinions, learning more about our hobby .... another fantastic Rockford Audio Society gathering! We won't discuss the weather or that slow four-point landing and slide-out I did on the ice at Brock's place

Lowell_M

dkg999 wrote: »

First of all, I would like to thank Aaron for hosting this get together! I know he will be blaming the state of disarray of the house on all of us that attended when his lovely and charming wife returns to town :eek:

Damn right!! I saved all Daboys water...I mean Miller Lite bottles just to prove that you guys messed the place up. Michele know's I don't touch mass brewed water. I should lay an empty bottle of Captain Morgan on the counter too since she also knows that TB Cruser is trouble.

Our gathering may have inspired my next phase of upgradits. I knew my CD player was a weak link and I might swap out that ADCOM for a Marsh for a while and see what I think. The Canare wires stay. I was blown away by that one as well. I could have sworn we swapped out something more than just speaker wires.

Oh yea....Doug, I've got a pair of your signal cable IC's.

RuSsMaN

I can't wait to meet you guys. Every time I see a picture of Doug it makes me giggle, take at least one next time.

Lowell_M

RuSsMaN wrote: »

I can't wait to meet you guys. Every time I see a picture of Doug it makes me giggle, take at least one next time.

Nervous giggle or "ha ha" giggle?

RuSsMaN

Like a funny feeling in my groin giggle. Sometimes I even hold my hand flat in front of my lips and bend my knees a little.

dkg999

I love you too Russ

Fireman32

RuSsMaN wrote: »

Like a funny feeling in my groin giggle. Sometimes I even hold my hand flat in front of my lips and bend my knees a little.

Now there's a visual. Glad you had a good time guys.

TB Cruzer

Based on this review in Home Theater, I was expecting more from the Sunfire.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/preampprocessors/1106sunfiretgptga/

I wanted to go straight to Todd's house and listen to it back to back with his EAD Powermaster 7300. However, domestic life came into play and his kids were down for a nap.

dkg999

TB - I wouldn't form any opinions until you get your pre/pro and have a chance to use it in your HT. I had a bunch of Outlaw M200 mono-blocks that rocked for HT use, but just didn't do it when used in a 2 ch music system. The Sunfire could mate extremely well with your speakers. The Sunfire amps do get rave reviews, which was what was setting my expectations pretty high. It was nice to meet you!

Lowell_M

TB Cruzer wrote: »

Based on this review in Home Theater, I was expecting more from the Sunfire.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/preampprocessors/1106sunfiretgptga/

I wanted to go straight to Todd's house and listen to it back to back with his EAD Powermaster 7300. However, domestic life came into play and his kids were down for a nap.

Todd called me later to make sure that I knew there were a few Marsh A200's for sale on ebay. That's just not nice.

Maybe things will sound different once you get that processor hooked up. I really want to hear that thing in HT, though. The dynamics must be incredible.

Lowell_M

H9 needs to get is internet access back!

dkg999

a_mattison wrote: »

H9 needs to get is internet access back!

I agree! I just finished watching the Led Zep DVD. I found a DSP mode on my B&K that had it sounding real good in multi-channel.

cubdog

Sounds like a good time. If you guys ever feel like getting out of the city let me know. I could probably be civil for at least one day.

cubdog

daboyz

I just want to start out by reiterating,"I hate you guys!":D Everytime we get together I end up wanting to switch something out or need something else.

As always it was great to see everyone and meet the two Todd's. Aaron was an excellent host and yeah I had a few brews but isn't that what it's all about?;)

I would have to agree with everything that's been said. The Lsi15's did not disappoint but the Marsh surely did steal the show. Now I'm having second thoughts on selling Aaron those star quads. I think next time we'll have to switch out cables a little bit more. I did call dibs on the Marsh which I feel may be a cold day in hell of getting but never the less I still called it.:p

A little bummed that the SDA's were out of the loop but good things come to those who wait.

TB Cruzer

It would have been interesting to listen to my RTi12s compared to the LSi15s. the LSIs are lighter, so you will have to bring them to my house! Maybe Todd can bring over his NHTs too.

Lowell_M

TB Cruzer wrote: »

It would have been interesting to listen to my RTi12s compared to the LSi15s. the LSIs are lighter, so you will have to bring them to my house! Maybe Todd can bring over his NHTs too.

Sounds good... I'll bring over my ADCOM and Nak CA-5 too if you want.

daboyz

Hey, we didn't bring up the new Polk sub that had a nice tight bass and was a big surprise to us. Polk is definitely on the right course!!

halo

Sorry I missed it. Sounds like everyone had a good time.

Lowell_M

halo wrote: »

Sorry I missed it. Sounds like everyone had a good time.

Did you get an email from me? I couldn't find your address in my email so chose "send email" from the forum.

blakeh

H9 wanted me to post a quick message that his internet is still down. These Comcast guys really screwed up when they took over for Insight. He's been down for nine days now and after daily phone calls, he still can't anyone to come out to look at it. He hopes to be back online by Wednesday (another five days).

He's got some comments to post about the gathering when he gets back online. He told me it was a great meeting. I'm definitely coming to the next one. Had I know there was going to be an amp shoot-out, I would've brought my Monarchy mono-blocks to see how they stack up. Next time!

-Blakeh (heiney9's brother)

Lowell_M

blakeh wrote: »

H9 wanted me to post a quick message that his internet is still down. These Comcast guys really screwed up when they took over for Insight. He's been down for nine days now and after daily phone calls, he still can't anyone to come out to look at it. He hopes to be back online by Wednesday (another five days).

He's got some comments to post about the gathering when he gets back online. He told me it was a great meeting. I'm definitely coming to the next one. Had I know there was going to be an amp shoot-out, I would've brought my Monarchy mono-blocks to see how they stack up. Next time!

-Blakeh (heiney9's brother)

Blake! If Brock needs a posse to pay Comcast a visit, count me in. That's criminal to keep a guy without internet access for weeks at a time!

The monarchy's would have been a sweet addition to the little amp shootout we did. You're welcome anytime.

heiney9

Holy Crap Comcast finally got me up and running again!!!!! After 11 days of being without service.

dkg999

Can you say REFUND!

heiney9

Hell yes...........This has been the most frustrating 11 days. I hope this is not the mark of things to come from Comcast. The tech was just as frustrated as I was. In order to provision my new modem/service he had to call dispatch and they had him on hold for 45 minutes. That's someone who works for them. He said the other day he was on hold for 2 hours!!!!

No wonder they can't do too many service calls in a day. He was here for almost 2 hours and atleast 1:15 of it was spent on hold with dispatch 2 different times. I think the word he used was "train wreck" for this whole migration from Insight to Comcast.

Anyways I'll have my impressions up shortly.

daboyz

He's baaaaaaaaack.........:)

heiney9

dkg999 wrote: »

TB - I wouldn't form any opinions until you get your pre/pro and have a chance to use it in your HT. I had a bunch of Outlaw M200 mono-blocks that rocked for HT use, but just didn't do it when used in a 2 ch music system. The Sunfire could mate extremely well with your speakers. The Sunfire amps do get rave reviews, which was what was setting my expectations pretty high. It was nice to meet you!

Great advice Doug!! Synergy is another very very important piece in the puzzle. When I post my impressions, that's simply what they are. Some things did well at the meet some things did less well. I would still encourage people to try as much gear as possible and see what works for you.

I too was floored by the cable comparison, and just because they didn't work for me doesn't mean you shouldn't try them. I'm speaking of Ben's silver quad speaker cables he makes and the one's I got for FREE in the karma he generously gave away.

H9

Systems

Thanks for the invite

Chuck