Rockford Gathering

heiney9

On February 17th we had another “Rockford Area” audio society gathering. Doug (dkg999) came up with that name-lol-. This time we met at Aaron’s house (a_mattison) as he had recently purchased some LSi 15’s for his 2-channel setup. Dave (daboyz) also attended as well as a couple other audiophools that Aaron knows.

This was the most beneficial meeting I have attended. We had a great cross section of gear with every piece right down to the speaker cable sounding different. Not to start a debate, but everything, I mean everything, in the chain can and does sound different, no ABX test needed to verify that fact. I had some real eye openers as well as come long standing confirmations.

I’ll get right to it the gear:

Aarons 2-channel setup

Toshiba DVDp for transport
Entech number cruncher DAC
Nakamichi CA5 pre amp
Adcom GFA 555 amp
Signal Cable interconnects
Canare S411 Star Quad speaker cables terminated w/banana plugs
Polk Audio LSi 15’s

Brock (H9) gear I brought along. Weather was rain/sleet and really nasty so I left my modded Monitor 5B’s at home which led to disappointment on 2 levels. I’ll explain later.

AMC DAC-8 Dac
Adcom GCA-510 line stage integrated amp
Ben’s Star Quad Silver speaker cables terminated with locking banana plugs.

Doug (dkg999) brought most of his audio closet over-lol-

Polk Audio SDA 2A w/RD0’s and in original box and packing
Dodd ELP tube preamp
Rotel RCD-1072 cdp
Marsh A200 amp
A box, a large box actually, of cables.
He had a few other pieces we never actually got to
Polk demo sub a pre-production DFW3000

Dave (daboyz) is working on building a 2 channel system and is in negations with Doug to purchase the SDA 2A’s.

Carver M1.5t amp
B & K pre
Lost of demo material

Todd-Aaron’s friend

Just received 5ch Sunfire amp (not sure of the model) 400 watts.
Carver M1.5t.

The big disappointment was when Doug and I pulled out his SDA 2A’s which have been in storage for quite awhile. They are in like new condition except for some grill cloth issues. When we got them set-up we realized one of the stereo drivers was seized. It was disappointing because had I brought my Monitor 5B’s along, they use the same driver, we could have swapped the drivers and got to hear the 2A’s. So we ended up only having 1 pair of speakers for the day, which was fine because this is the best I’ve heard a pair of LSi 15’s sound.

Some random thoughts:

Adcom makes a great amp that is very hard to beat. It does most things well and some things extremely well. The Rotel RCD 1072 is as good a sounding player as people say it is. I was impressed at how well balanced the sound was and it soon became our reference source for the day. The AMC dac and the Entech dac were nice budget friendly units but certainly fell short of the Rotel.

The Sunfire amp was my least favorite, actually everyone’s least favorite, and the look on Todd’s face was priceless when it went up against the Adcom and the Marsh. He just received the amp and was going home to put it back up on Ebay. The Adcom and Marsh just were better in almost every aspect. It was quite an eye opener because Sunfire is a highly regarded brand. One wonders if they aren’t sliding by on having been associated with Bob Carver. I will add that Todd should put this amp through it’s paces and may turn out to be a great HT amp.

The Carver M1.5T was a little better than the Sunfire, it had more controlled and slightly more extended bass and it didn’t seem as “in your face” as the Sunfire. It still couldn’t really compete with the Adcom or Marsh. It was a little better balanced top to bottom than the Sunfire but still left a bit to be desired compared to the Adcom and Marsh.

The pleasant eye opener is how nice the Marsh amp sounded. It was the only amp I have heard recently that sounds as good as the Adcom and in a couple area’s it’s even better. I told everyone as hard as it was for me to admit but the Marsh slightly edged out the Adcom. Dollar for dollar the Marsh is a higher priced unit but still in that “mid-fi” pack price wise.

The mid-range was more fleshed out and a bit clearer on the Marsh and the upper end seems to be a bit more “out front” compared to the Adcom. The bass, which Adcom does extremely well, was right there and compared favorably against the Adcom; almost identical. Both amps have very deep, well controlled bass w/lots of extension. The other amps sounded anemic in the bass compared to the Adcom and Marsh.

I just don’t understand people who say Adcom is bright. In fact it was the least bright of all the amps we used. The 2 things I noticed about the Adcom against the Marsh was the Adcom had a slightly recessed midrange (less fleshed out) and if anything the highs were slightly rolled off compared to the Marsh. The Marsh had just a bit more “sparkle” up top. Not a lot more, but enough to notice. The midrange “bloom” was a bit better on the Marsh. If I had to choose one right there on the spot I’d probably choose the Marsh.

The Marsh was nice surprise and I put that on my short list. The Adcom keeps chugging along sounding better than most. I keep slipping into the criticism people seem to give Adcom and I just keep the faith and the Adcom never disappoints. Every time I hear a negative comment I want to replace my Adcom, but it really is a great sounding amp. It’s still my conclusion you have to spend a lot more $$$ to find something truly better.

My biggest disappointment was hearing the Sunfire. Even my 50/wpc Adcom integrated sounded better. The GCA-510 drove the LSi’s admirably but when played at the same level as the other amps just couldn’t quite keep up. We backed it down a bit and listened and the biggest difference more power/larger caps/more output tranny design has is evident. The GCA-510 just didn’t have the bass control or extension and it sound a little bit thin and 2 dimensional. It did a good job for 50/wpc unit, but the LSi’s were a little too much for it in such a large listening area.

The neatest thing about the design is it is essentially an Adcom GFA535 amp section with the SLC505 passive controller. The GCA510 doesn’t have a pre amp stage. It’s just high gain amp with a volume control. However; the amp section isn’t quite as good as the GFA535, it has some of the same sound characteristics but not near the head room or control. It was designed in the late 90’s and was marketed to go against the British integrated amps of that period.

The Dodd ELP sounded wonderful, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this pre amp and I’m not a huge fan of tubes, but this sounded very nice. It didn’t have the sparkle or the iron fisted bass control a good SS pre amp has but I could definitely live with the ELP without any complaints whatsoever.

The B & K pre amp was just very flat sounding. It had no character and sounded a bit lifeless compared to both the ELP and the Nakamich CA5. In fact we only listened to it for a few songs before we realized it just wasn’t cutting it. System synergy is key, and perhaps with a different set of components the B & K would sound better. Again the Nakamichi pre amp is another unit I keep recommending and it just confirms what a nice sounding piece it is and it is very affordable on the used market.

Speaker cables do make a difference and in this case a very noticeable difference. I wanted to like Ben’s cables from day one. What’s not to like, excellent materials, excellent workmanship, and I got mine for FREE. Using them at home with my system there just seemed to be something missing compared to my IXOS cables. I could never put my finger on it, but something was just slightly off.

At Aaron’s we compared them to a homemade pair of Canare S411 in star quad configuration. The Canare had better more fluid bass, more midrange bloom and less sibilance. The one characteristic I noticed every time with Ben’s Silver Star quad’s was a thickness added to the vocals of our demo songs. The vocals seemed heavy and less fluid sounding. They also made the whole presentation sound more 2 dimensional than the Canare.

I don’t want my review to discourage anyone from trying Ben’s cables as I think they are top notch and just need to have the correct synergy and rig to get the most benefit.

Damn, this was a long post, most of this was written as soon as I got home from the meet so everything was fresh and now I’m posting it since my internet connection is back up and running.

Thanks Aaron, it was good to see Doug and Dave again and nice to meet the two Todd’s. I hope we can do this again soon as it’s a very rewarding get together.

H9

dkg999

+1 on H9's comments!

I would encourage any Club Polk members who live reasonably close to each other to try to put together small get-togethers. You don't have to bring massive amounts of gear. Even if you swap out a few cables, an amp or two, or compare CDP's or DAC's, it can be a very rewarding experience. No one's gear has to be bad or good, it's about hearing the differences and then letting those differences guide you when you make gear changes.

Aaron's LSi15's were the best sounding I have heard LSi15's with music. And I have not been a fan of LSi's for music, love them in my HT, but haven't been in love with them for 2 ch music. Aaron should be proud of his system, because it sounded fantastic.

An additional benefit of these meetings is when you go back home and listen to your system. The Monday night after the meeting I sat down for a couple of hours and listened to my Magnepan's and associated gear. I could really identify the things I really liked about my gear and speakers, and why I am happy with them. I also was able to reflect on some of the things I liked about the LSi15's on Aaron's 2 ch system, and how those characteristics were different (both good and bad based on my likes/dislikes) from my system.

It seems we have some interest from the other area Club Polkies, so if the other members of the infamous Rockford Audio Society are OK with it, maybe we'll try to expand the invite list for the next meeting. The main issue is space for all the people and gear! I know that we also need to work on another IL meet, but maybe with the Polkfest '08 coming up in October, we'll all just get special IL Club Polk shirts made and hijack that meeting

heiney9

dkg999 wrote: »

Aaron should be proud of his system, because it sounded fantastic.

An additional benefit of these meetings is when you go back home and listen to your system. The Monday night after the meeting I sat down for a couple of hours and listened to my Magnepan's and associated gear. I could really identify the things I really liked about my gear and speakers, and why I am happy with them. I also was able to reflect on some of the things I liked about the LSi15's on Aaron's 2 ch system, and how those characteristics were different (both good and bad based on my likes/dislikes) from my system.

Yep, I agree 100% w/the above statement. Listening to Aaron's LSi 15's I realized it's been awhile (since our last get together) that I had listened to "conventional" speakers. I loved the Lsi 15's but when I got home the SDA's just took me to another level based on my likes and dislikes.

A funny thing happened though, in my haste to put the IXOS cables back in use I somehow flipped the phase (polarity) on the left SDA at the amp connection. I sat down and I thought I needed to take a few minutes to get accustomed to the SDA's again. The more I listened the more disappointed I became and actually had a fleeting thought that the LSi's were 1,000,000 times better sounding. Then I got up just by chance to check the connections and realized the speakers were wired out of phase.

WHEW!!! Heart attack averted. The SDA's snapped back into place and sounded absolutely wonderful again. I forgot how messed up the SDA's can sound if not hooked up properly.

The LSi's sounded fantastic at Aaron's the best I've heard them sound to date.

I still think we should do a Spring Time gathering and I'll get my brother to bring his Monarchy tube dac, Monarchy mono's, and perhaps his Adcom GFP-750 preamp and Acurus DIA-100 integrated amp. Plus I do want to hear your 2A's Doug.

dkg999

As soon as we get some decent weather I will unbox the broken 2A and make sure of what driver it has, then put in an order to Polk CS.

Emphasis on decent weather This winter sucks!

dkg999

And get those October Polkfest dates on your calendar. McLoki and I are renting a van and putting together a road trip of epic proportions :eek:

Systems

I quit!

Chuck

heiney9

dkg999 wrote: »

And get those October Polkfest dates on your calendar. McLoki and I are renting a van and putting together a road trip of epic proportions :eek:

I'm in!!!

daboyz

I've been dyin' to go so I'm definitely letting the new job(?) know I'm off a few days in October

Lowell_M

Great notes, Brock.

One of the Todd's (TBCruzer on the Fm) is interested in doing a HT gear get together sometime if there are interested parties. This will be a little more complicated, but think we could swap out a few amps, subs and cables pretty easy.

Also, attached a picture of the 2-channel system in my living room....

daboyz

I've got a large great room that'll fit us all. As long as wifey doesn't mind the mess I think we could pull it off.