Which Dedicated Circuit to Install

janmike

I am a little confused on this one. Basic electricity was never my favorite.
I will be getting an electrician to install a dedicated circuit for my 2CH rig. The question now is do I do a 15A or 20A circuit.

All of my gear and powers cords are 15A. If I get the electrican to install a 20A circuit, can I damage any of the gear. Sorry folks, my knowledge of this is limited. My thinking is that if I put in a 20A circuit, then I will have a 20A socket with a 20A power cord going from the wall to the power/line conditioner. The power/line conditioner will accept 15A power cords from all of my gear. Is this possible? Can you folks help me clear this confusion up as I want to do things right the first time. Thanks for the help.

dave shepard

janmike wrote: »

I am a little confused on this one. Basic electricity was never my favorite.
I will be getting an electrician to install a dedicated circuit for my 2CH rig. The question now is do I do a 15A or 20A circuit.

All of my gear and powers cords are 15A. If I get the electrican to install a 20A circuit, can I damage any of the gear. Sorry folks, my knowledge of this is limited. My thinking is that if I put in a 20A circuit, then I will have a 20A socket with a 20A power cord going from the wall to the power/line conditioner. The power/line conditioner will accept 15A power cords from all of my gear. Is this possible? Can you folks help me clear this confusion up as I want to do things right the first time. Thanks for the help.

I would put in a 20amp this would give you the flexability to add another piece if you needed to the same outlet given that the total max draw of all connected equipment does not exceed the breakers rating at any one time. The fact that your conditioner is rated at 15amps (as most are) has nothing to do with the breaker it just means that at no time can all or one unit pluged in the conditioner draw more then 15amps at one time.
I have 2-20amp breakers for my amp and the amp only is connected to the outlets.

Dave

crd2002

cant go wrong with a 20 amp circuit you could also ask him to use #10 wire instead of #12 and still use the 20 amp breaker bigger wire

Willow

FWIW,
A family friend electrician, installed a dedicated line for my HT, each top and bottom plugs have their own breaker @ 15 amps. What he told me was with a 20amp breaker, it means it will take more to trip the breaker thus 15amps is "safer" for my gear.
I'm like you I don't know much about electrical, so if I'm wrong, it's either cause my friend didn't understand what I wanted and or I didn't explain properly from what info I was reading on the forum.
I asked him to install 20amp, but again he said it was "safer" for my gear on 15amps.

janmike

Here is some info I received back from a guy I am dealing with.

"A 20A circuit is always recommended over a 15A. Having more current available is never a bad thing--not having enough, can constrict dynamics. I recommend your installer use 10/3 wire. Electrical code normally calls for 12/2 for a 20A installation, but 10 gauge will give you lower resistance back to the AC panel and better current delivery. 10/3 has an additional wire (4 total) so 2 wires should be used for the ground path. Doubling up on the ground wires greatly lowers the impedance to earth ground giving you a lower noise floor for your audio system with much improved dynamics and low level detail. I also high;y recommend your installer increase the amount of wire used for connection between your AC panel and the earth ground (water pipe or grounding rod)--use 2 gauge or larger. This will give you the lowest impedance path to earth ground practically possible, allowing your audio equipment to sound its best. Electrical codes were designed for safety, not good sound.

A hospital grade outlet is not the correct choice. Hospital grade outlets have a nickel coating on the contacts (this is done in hospital environments to protect the contacts from corrosion by the harsh chemicals used for cleaning walls and floors) that change the tonal balance of the sound to be very bright and harsh in the high frequencies."


My intension, should I go the 20A route, is to get the electrician to use 10/3 wire as outlined above.

PS - I wish my Dad was still with us - he knew all about this stuff.

Willow

I knew I didn't explain myself correctly to him. Well when he is over installing some potlights on the top floor, I'll ask him to copy what that paragraph said.

ben62670

janmike wrote: »

Here is some info I received back from a guy I am dealing with.

"A 20A circuit is always recommended over a 15A. Having more current available is never a bad thing--not having enough, can constrict dynamics. I recommend your installer use 10/3 wire. Electrical code normally calls for 12/2 for a 20A installation, but 10 gauge will give you lower resistance back to the AC panel and better current delivery. 10/3 has an additional wire (4 total) so 2 wires should be used for the ground path. Doubling up on the ground wires greatly lowers the impedance to earth ground giving you a lower noise floor for your audio system with much improved dynamics and low level detail. I also high;y recommend your installer increase the amount of wire used for connection between your AC panel and the earth ground (water pipe or grounding rod)--use 2 gauge or larger. This will give you the lowest impedance path to earth ground practically possible, allowing your audio equipment to sound its best. Electrical codes were designed for safety, not good sound.

A hospital grade outlet is not the correct choice. Hospital grade outlets have a nickel coating on the contacts (this is done in hospital environments to protect the contacts from corrosion by the harsh chemicals used for cleaning walls and floors) that change the tonal balance of the sound to be very bright and harsh in the high frequencies."


My intension, should I go the 20A route, is to get the electrician to use 10/3 wire as outlined above.

PS - I wish my Dad was still with us - he knew all about this stuff.

Yes and no. This guy is a nut. If you are going to run 12/3 have 2 20 amp circuits. The impedance idea about doubling the ground is whacked. I was an electrician for years. There is next to no currant going through that line unless there is a serious problem! So which extra wire would he use for ground? You have red, black, white, and bare, or green. Red, and black are almost always hot. This guy is a nut job. He is probably going to overcharge you for his "vast knowledge of electricity, and audio":rolleyes: A computer outlet plug is fine, or just a good 20amp receptacle.

MikeC78

I wouldn't call him a nut job, maybe a little excessive, but aren't we all in this hobby?

I personally ran two dedicated 20 amp circuits, using 10/2 Romex on my HT. The only reason I used 10/2, is because my father is an electrician and had it sitting around. Plus, it won't hurt anything using 10 over 12 anyway.:)

ShinAce

Willow, he's right, 15 amp breaker is safer. As long as the rest of the system is designed to support 20 amps or more, you are good to go.

If the electrician is friends with you, he should check the power consumption of all equipment to go on that circuit and choose the breaker from that. Have you tripped the breaker?

It's the wire itself that is the advantage. The bigger wire is giving you better 'loading' to the power grid.

reeltrouble1

Mike, get the 20 amp line, the one you heard in the Shed and the HT room are actually 30 amp lines, one of best moves I ever made.

RT1

janmike

I think there is a huge gap between Audio professionals and electricians. This guy is not charging me anything. He lives in the USA and I live in Canada. I would hardly call him a NUT. The electrician will be doing what I tell him to do based on the research.
I know one thing for sure. Whatever I put in will be correct as I have spent, and will spend, way too much $ to do this part wrong.

kolyan2k

here we go again.......i am an electrician and have been in business for many years. you cant go wrong with 12/3. this will give you 2 separate 20AMP lines, and its more then enough for most HT. the rest of the info you are getting here about using cable #10/2 or #10/3 is pure BS !

I have my whole living room wired with single 14/2 (15AMP) cable and running 3 amps, avr, dvd, ps3, tv, sub, multimedia box, lights, comcast box, network router, cable modem........guess what ? everything works better then ever.

F1nut

Hmmm.... my electrician recommends 10 gauge for audio with at least a 20 amp breaker as anything less will constrict dynamics.

When he speaks, I listen.

MikeC78

kolyan2k wrote: »

here we go again.......i am an electrician and have been in business for many years. you cant go wrong with 12/3. this will give you 2 separate 20AMP lines, and its more then enough for most HT. the rest of the info you are getting here about using cable #10/2 or #10/3 is pure BS !

I have my whole living room wired with single 14/2 (15AMP) cable and running 3 amps, avr, dvd, ps3, tv, sub, multimedia box, lights, comcast box, network router, cable modem........guess what ? everything works better then ever.

As far as I know, the code in Illinois is that outlets are to be ran with at least #12 wire. So, with your line of thinking, running #14 wire is pure BS!:eek:

BTW, what is BS about using #12 or #10 wire??

george daniel

errr, I was going to reply,, but I think that I'll defer to the gentlemen fron the "jawga" coast,and the guy who sells vowels.

ben62670

ShinAce wrote: »

Willow, he's right, 15 amp breaker is safer. As long as the rest of the system is designed to support 20 amps or more, you are good to go.

If the electrician is friends with you, he should check the power consumption of all equipment to go on that circuit and choose the breaker from that. Have you tripped the breaker?

It's the wire itself that is the advantage. The bigger wire is giving you better 'loading' to the power grid.

Ok... So you install a 15amp breaker because you calculated all the gear on that circuit. If a piece of gear goes then it makes the sum of electronics trip that breaker. It would be like sticking smaller fuses in your gear to make it safer. 12/3, and 2 20's, and call it a day. I would agree with Jesse on the 10ga, but to get a good connection on the plugs is very difficult to do. How long is the run from the panel?

steveinaz

Our local code dictates:

15Amp=14/3
20amp=12/3
30amp=10/3

If you're going thru the expense/trouble of a dedicated line, do at least a 20amp circuit--me, I'd do a 30amp.

janmike

ben62670 wrote: »

Ok... So you install a 15amp breaker because you calculated all the gear on that circuit. If a piece of gear goes then it makes the sum of electronics trip that breaker. It would be like sticking smaller fuses in your gear to make it safer. 12/3, and 2 20's, and call it a day. I would agree with Jesse on the 10ga, but to get a good connection on the plugs is very difficult to do. How long is the run from the panel?

The run from the panel is no more than 20 feet. I spoke with my electrician yesterday and ran all this by him. No problem in his mind and he has been in the business 30+ years. When he returns from his trip South to go and relax and watch some NASCAR he will come over to look at the job and then complete it.

janmike

george daniel wrote: »

errr, I was going to reply,, but I think that I'll defer to the gentlemen fron the "jawga" coast,and the guy who sells vowels.

Hmmmm - 7 letters.
I would like to have a "C" George.

disneyjoe7

Ok I'm no electrician by trade, but I'm confused as people state use 30amp. What I know is this 20 amp circuit with 20 amp wire 12g can have a 15 amp receptacle connected to it. If I remember correctly is that a 15 amp outlet can't have a draw more then 15 amps. But I also know you can't change wire gauge in a box, and this rule makes a lot of since to me as if you had a 20amp circuit with 12g wiring you could branch off a 15 amp wire being 14g. But now here's the confusing if you had 10g wire to an electrical box I don't think you could connect the 10g wire to a receptacle it just too large. So if you pig tail the 10g to something smaller then you broke the other rule of changing qauge of wire in box.


With Ted did RT1 if I call correctly is he has a sub panel box feed from a 30amp 240vac breaker from main box so this was feed with a 10/3 wire. Then branched off for receptacle in his audio rooms, using 20 amp circuits running 12/2.

reeltrouble1

nope DJ7

I ran a 100 amp line from the panel to a sub panel and ran seperate 30 amp dedicated lines from the sub panel to the HT rack and the Woodshed amp, no problem hooking 10 guage wire to the outlets, I used a hospital grade outlet which really grabs the plug and holds on. I also ran some dedicated 20 amp lines for lighting and other outlets.

Everything works like a charm, BAT recommended the 30 amp line for my amp, gives you the opportunity to really move up the chain as well if you ever want to.

RT1

disneyjoe7

Ok I'm just surprised that a 10 guage wire can connect to an outlet, as any outlet I seen says 14 or 12 guage wire nothing about 10 guage. So is that legal?

reeltrouble1

hell I am not a certified electrician, my ee son-in-law did the electrical stuff, you cannot use the little holes in the back as the wire is to thick, so you gotta use the screws, well I suppose I should put the disclaimer about checking with your local code and all that but when I was a kid I worked in a hospital in Il. with the engineer for two summers, they had 30 amps lines everywhere with standard outlets, I remember I used to have to make waterproof plugs for the machines to plug into them, my first dabble in power cord madness. I know leviton makes the circular outlets for 30 amp so you could use those if you want but your going to have to change the plugs.

RT1

disneyjoe7

Ok Ted just keeping you on the straight and narrow.

reeltrouble1

I know we have several electricians and would think they would know for there area.

I have seen where you should not put a cheapy 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp line so even though I am using a high quality dedicated outlet it may not be technically correct, but it works fine without the least bit of heat, everything runs nicey nice, I remember when I had the HT on a 15 amp line my voltage would drop to under 110 during peak periods, very bad, now with the thirty amp line my voltage stays rock steady at a smidge over 125, seem to be very stable, not sure why, but it is.

I can say that both my HT and 2-ch have improved with the dedicated lines, its just overall better, the TV pic, the sound, no noise, hell when I used to juice the BAT I dimmed any light plugged into the circuit, if I went to far I would blow the light and the fuse in BAT amp protecting the circuit board, seems the voltage would drop and I could get DC voltage yada yada yada, I now say go for the cleanest power you can get or afford.

RT1

RT1

disneyjoe7

Ted, loved everything you stated above. I think yes your amp loves your 125vac line voltage due to a large sub panel feed, along with your 30 amp outlet wiring. Love it all, very sweet setup but....................


Being an electronic technician which has fixed everything by now. I say a surge or lightening strike near your home you may have an issue.... as the rule is that a surge will find the path of least resistance. So if your HT and 2-ch have a nice path to main panel lightening may also find your stuff a nice path to ground. So my Q is don't you have progress energy? If so you can add a whole house surge protection to your house they call it meter based surge, my thinking is if a strong surge would take out that device before it works its way into our sweetness.

reeltrouble1

just another reason to buy all new gear............I figure if I get a direct hit its going to wipe everything no matter what, I studied some grounding strike systems but not so sure about them, I typically just pull the plug on everything, but its not like your always home during a storm so its a risk and yes I suppose the bigger the line is the less resistance and all that, but I still am keeping my 30 amp lines.

RT1

disneyjoe7

Well living in the "Lightening capital in the world" I love what you did, why you did it, with you 110% and my do actually what you did myself someday. But since storms can came while I not home sound asleep or what not. I live by that "Meter Surge" protection and UPS on everything I care about. The UPS is a like a direct line as it relays the input to the output but smart enough to open relay and run on batteries if over or under voltage with a local surge protection. I sleep well at night knowing what I've done for this issue.

Steve

SKsolutions

If you are installing a new circuit, why install less than the maximum used by todays equipment? Todays standards call for dedicated circuits for most appliances using 20A 12/2 configs. Your there anyway, and the cost difference is minimal. Good luck.

janmike

Thanks SK. The cost is not even a factor. I just want to do what is right so a 20A 12/3 with a good receptacle will be the least that I put in.

kolyan2k

janmike wrote: »

Thanks SK. The cost is not even a factor. I just want to do what is right so a 20A 12/3 with a good receptacle will be the least that I put in.

12/3 would be a right thing to do. I am sure some people do not even understand, just like in previous threads, but running 10/2 will give you 30AMPs and running 12/3 will actually give you two 20AMP circuits, so you will end up having 40 dedicated AMPs to your HT (this is not by some HT freak, but by the electrical code. install 2-gang box, feed one outlet with black and another with red, ground and white are common)