Nerds

shack

mule wrote:

I saw a article last year (i don't remember the publication) that had figures showing college edjucation to be a bad investment. They figured cost of schooling, interest on student loans and the loss of income from attending school full time as compared to people who went to work straight from high school. The increase in income didn't offset the cost. Of course they are taking averages because this wouldn't apply to a plastic surgeon in a major city but it is amazing how many people with college educations work at resturants and wall mart.

I've seen similar reports to this and the numbers are brought down by a lot of the Liberal Arts Degrees. You will often see someone get a degree in History or English Lit. followed up by a masters in Library Science only to go out and get a job paying $30K a year. When you isolate the various business, science and technical degrees, the cost/return for a college degree works out to income differences in the hundreds of thousands over the workspan of the individual even taking into consideration the cost of education and the opportunity costs of attending school vs working.

They will also throw people like Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Steve Jobs into the mix as people who never attained a college degree, but have managed to generate moderate :rolleyes: levels of income.

sucks2beme

shack wrote: »

I've seen similar reports to this and the numbers are brought down by a lot of the Liberal Arts Degrees. You will often see someone get a degree in History or English Lit. followed up by a masters in Library Science only to go out and get a job paying $30K a year. When you isolate the various business, science and technical degrees, the cost/return for a college degree works out to income differences in the hundreds of thousands over the workspan of the individual even taking into consideration the cost of education and the opportunity costs of attending school vs working.

They will also throw people like Bill Gates, Paul Allen and Steve Jobs into the mix as people who never attained a college degree, but have managed to generate moderate :rolleyes: levels of income.

A college degree has become a must. Every one under 40 doing my type of
job has one. Anyone hired in the last 4 years in my company has one(regardless of the type of job bing filled).

The bulk of the people out there will either get one, or work their tail off to make a decent living.

The point of this thread is "Is engineering dead in america?"
That seems to be the direction it's heading.
Do business degrees pay better, like an MBA?
How many CEO's or division heads are engineers? Damn few.
That's my real point. If you want to make a good living, engineering.
If you want to make a great living, sales or management.

PhantomOG

Depends on whether your definition of good/great is purely based on $$$.

I'm an engineer and wouldn't trade it for sales/management because I know the tradeoffs include much more than dollars and cents. But that's just me. I like to sit in my cube, only go to one meeting a week, and prefer to email the guy two cubes down rather than getting up to talk to him

shack

PhantomOG wrote:

I like to sit in my cube, only go to one meeting a week, and prefer to email the guy two cubes down rather than getting up to talk to him

Damn! You definitely ARE an engineer! (or maybe an accountant :rolleyes: )

sucks2beme

PhantomOG wrote: »

Depends on whether your definition of good/great is purely based on $$$.

I'm an engineer and wouldn't trade it for sales/management because I know the tradeoffs include much more than dollars and cents. But that's just me. I like to sit in my cube, only go to one meeting a week, and prefer to email the guy two cubes down rather than getting up to talk to him

One meeting a week. CRAP!
I must be doing something wrong.
That's the problem when all your work is external.
Everyone is looking over your shoulder.
Some weeks meetings =20 hours.
Most of the real work happens evenings or weekends.

PhantomOG

When I got out of college I started in product engineering. After a year and a half of spending half of my time at work in meetings or making powerpoint presentations for meetings I realized it wasn't for me. I transferred to design and have been happy ever since. My one meeting a week is largely a formality and usually lasts about 30-45 minutes.

Airplay355

I hate sales and management, boring classes, boring job, boring meetings, boring boring boring.

I'm a med bio major and I'd much rather take any bio class then management classes.

Ricardo

sucks2beme wrote: »

That's my real point. If you want to make a good living, engineering.
If you want to make a great living, sales or management.

Partially true....it does not apply to 100% of the population. I don't have the figures but I'd bet that the % of Engineers that are making a good living is a lot higher than the % of Sales/Managers that are making a great living. Education is just one component of the equation, and then you have the opportunity factor, social skills, personality, ambition......

reeltrouble1

all trends point to the BS/BA degrees being equivilant to a HS degree by the year 2031.

your going to need a master's to get ahead.

RT1

Shizelbs

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

all trends point to the BS/BA degrees being equivilant to a HS degree by the year 2031.

your going to need a master's to get ahead.

RT1

This trend has applied perfectly to the friends I went to school with.

bikezappa

sucks2beme wrote: »

The point of this thread is "Is engineering dead in america?"
That seems to be the direction it's heading.
Do business degrees pay better, like an MBA?
How many CEO's or division heads are engineers? Damn few.
That's my real point. If you want to make a good living, engineering.
If you want to make a great living, sales or management.

My point in starting this thread was my concern for the future of the U.S.

If more people are getting degrees in sports than EE the U.S. will have a problem competing in the future market place.

I think MBAs make more money than engineers on average, but I could be wrong. Maybe some one has some data on this.

bikezappa

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

all trends point to the BS/BA degrees being equivilant to a HS degree by the year 2031.

your going to need a master's to get ahead.

RT1

I think you are right and that is not good for the future of the U.S..

Ricardo

bikezappa wrote: »

I think MBAs make more money than engineers on average, but I could be wrong. Maybe some one has some data on this.

I am sure this is true for starting salaries, but in most companies once you are in, your carreer will depend little on what your degree says, and lots on your performance and dedication. When I started I was pissed at how much MBA's that started with me were making. Today, the ones that are still here, a few are way above, and the rest are either like me or below. And I made the choice not to live for my carreer, so I could very well be higher up the ladder.

Of course an MBA can help you get that better job, so I am not saying it's not worth pursuing.

bikezappa

A good option is to get both a degree in business and in engineering. That way you may avoid getting BSed.

mule

My oldest brother worked his **** of at night school to get his engineering degree. He was working in a lab stealing hardware technology from ibm not making much money because he didn't have the same degree as the other guys in the lab. He got laid off before he finished the engineering degree so he got a job programming computers to get him by. After he got the degree he never used it, Now he is a computer consultant for hospitals and is far more successful than if he stuck with the engineering. I know he does not regrett getting the degree though because he realling enjoyed learning everything he did as a result.

Me, I basically dropped out of high school in 10th grade to go to work. I never really like school because I felt like you allways got treated like a dumb kid where as if you went to work and did your job well you got treated with respect and treated like an adult. I really don't regret the choice. I have been working in the trades since I was 15 and now I am 38 and I don't really have to work a whole hell of a lot. Basically with the trades you get out what you put into it. In my early twenties I raced mx so I traveled and as along as I made enough money to buy bikes I was happy, in my late twenties I wakeboarded 4 days a week so as long as I made enough money to put gas in my boat I was happy. Through my thirties I decided to grow up a little and get to work. I had up to 5 guys working at times and made a little bit of money. Now my house is almost paid for, bought my truck with cash and owe a couple bucks on the volvo, I'm not rich but I'm not a slave to the grind and I don't punch the time clock. Hell I've got a friend in commercial flooring that keeps his 50 foot viking in florida over the winter so he can fly down on the weekends to take it to Bermuda fishing, but personally I wouldn't want the stress level of his business.

jayman_1975

daniel_paul_ wrote: »

Many of the guys in the field make more money. But on a cold, wet, winter day I am glad I got a desk job. Plus my back thanks me...my knees thank me...

I hear you on that one....but any other day...i'll take the outdoors.