Warner goes blu exclusive

Early B.

You HD-DVD guys got it all wrong. Warner doesn't control the winner of the war -- the **** industry does. Has **** chosen Blu-ray exclusively yet?

WilliamM2

I still think both formats will die. The average consumer does not think they need HD, they think standard DVD's are more than good enough. There is no huge jump in quality, as there was with the switch from VHS.

Most homes still don't have HD TV's, and most the people I know that do, don't think it's worth paying any extra for HD programming, they just watch SD in stretcho-vision, and think that's wonderful too. Look at my new big TV!

The average consumer does not care about quality. Look at music distribution. They ignored SACD and DVD-A, and are now ignoring CD's in favor of downloading MP3's.

I bought an HD-DVD player in the Walmart sale. I have yet to actually see an HD movie on it, as I don't buy movies, and no one around here rents HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs. I've never understood how anyone can watch the same movie more than once.

Early B.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I still think both formats will die.

Nah. Both formats will live together forever. They'll just add more formats and it'll become like MP3, MP4, WMA, etc. where players can decode all of them.

Systems

billbillw wrote: »

I'm sitting out for a while longer.

Same here,I almost jumped into the HD camp but then realised BR has more in their catalog that I like.So Ill wait it out awhile longer.

obieone

Anybody know what the NEXT step in HD resolution is rumored to be???
And how far away???

WilliamM2

Early B. wrote: »

Nah. Both formats will live together forever. They'll just add more formats and it'll become like MP3, MP4, WMA, etc. where players can decode all of them.

You think they will still make disc's and players, when they can't sell enough to turn a profit? That would be unusual.

Early B.

WilliamM2 wrote: »

You think they will still make disc's and players, when they can't sell enough to turn a profit? That would be unusual.

Yep, as long as people like me still demand them. I ain't downloading a got damn thing!:p

dkg999

Me and my new Cambridge 540Dv2 will be taking all those old unwanted and cheap SD DVD's and watching them in upconverted splendor I'm digging my S-VHS player out just in case!

venomclan

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I still think both formats will die. The average consumer does not think they need HD, they think standard DVD's are more than good enough. There is no huge jump in quality, as there was with the switch from VHS.

Most homes still don't have HD TV's, and most the people I know that do, don't think it's worth paying any extra for HD programming, they just watch SD in stretcho-vision, and think that's wonderful too. Look at my new big TV!

I thought that as a possibility, as sd-dvd still controls 98% of the market. But with the prices of Hd-tv's plummeting and the approaching end of analog signals in 2009, more will adopt to HD and thus want the best picture they can afford. Companies make their money on software sales and with this development, we will most likely see a declining hardware and software price on all HD-media, be it Blu or HD-dvd. It has to in order to adopt the remaing 98% of sd-only users.

The average consumer does not care about quality. Look at music distribution. They ignored SACD and DVD-A, and are now ignoring CD's in favor of downloading MP3's.

Video has and always will dominate audio. Look at how many people own expensive tv's without audio systems at all, or htib's.

I bought an HD-DVD player in the Walmart sale. I have yet to actually see an HD movie on it, as I don't buy movies, and no one around here rents HD-DVD or Blu-Ray discs. I've never understood how anyone can watch the same movie more than once.

Blockbuster rents Blu exclusively. There are millions of people who watch movies more than once and have large collections of video media in some form or another. .

Venom

Early B.

Here's an interesting historical flashback:


The Betamax vs VHS Format War

Sony's Betamax video standard was introduced in 1975, followed a year later by JVC's VHS. For around a decade the two standards battled for dominance, with VHS eventually emerging as the winner.

The victory was not due to any technical superiority (Betamax is arguably a better format), but to several factors. Exactly how and why VHS won the war has been the subject of intense debate. The commonly-held belief is that the technically superior Betamax was beaten by VHS through slick marketing. In fact the truth is more complex and there were a number of reasons for the outcome.

Sony's founder, Akio Morita, claimed that licensing problems between Sony and other companies slowed the growth of Betamax and allowed VHS to become established. However most commentators have played down this issue and cited other reasons as being more important.

It is certainly true that VHS machines were initially much simpler and cheaper to manufacture, which would obviously be an attraction to companies deciding which standard to back. It has also been reported that Sony inadvertently gave its competitors a helping hand by revealing key aspects of Betamax technology which were then incorporated into VHS.

In any case, manufacturers divided themselves into two camps: On the Betamax side were Sony, Toshiba, Sanyo, NEC, Aiwa, and Pioneer. On the VHS side were JVC, Matsushita (Panasonic), Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Sharp, and Akai.

For consumers, the most immediately obvious difference between the two formats was the recording length. Standard Betamax tapes lasted 60 minutes — not long enough to record a movie. Conversely, the 3-hour VHS tapes were perfect for recording television programmes and movies. Sony did adapt and offer various solutions for longer recording, but it was too late. The issue of recording time is often cited as the most defining factor in the war.

At some point and for some reason the choice of rental movies on VHS became better than Betamax. It is arguable how this situation came to be, but once it happened, there was no turning back. Bitter Betamax owners cringed in their ever-decreasing corner of the video store while VHS owners gloated.

The war was over by the late 1980s, although supporters of Betamax have helped keep the format going in a small niche market. Betamax production in America ended in 1993, and the last Betamax machine in the world was produced in Japan in 2002.

Of course, both Betamax and VHS were eventually made obsolete by digital technology.

reeltrouble1

yea, gloating and cockle sucking, lot of that going around lately.

I have a used HD player, Like William I watch SD movies on it and I can rent HD-DVD when I want. I had hoped for some quality music but does not look like it will happen.

RT1

Early B.

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

I have a used HD player, Like William I watch SD movies on it and I can rent HD-DVD when I want. I had hoped for some quality music but does not look like it will happen.

I think I've watched two HD movies since I've had mine. Bought it primarily for the improved SQ which it offers. Has a slightly better PQ for SD-DVD, too.

Sherardp

I have tons of movies on both, another vote for hoping to see the war go on so I can get media at great prices. Either way I'm hanging onto my XA2, that thing does wonders for SD DVDs.

ESavinon

obieone wrote: »

Anybody know what the NEXT step in HD resolution is rumored to be???
And how far away???

1440p. Not anytime soon.

Ron-P

Early B. wrote: »

You HD-DVD guys got it all wrong. Warner doesn't control the winner of the war -- the **** industry does. Has **** chosen Blu-ray exclusively yet?

**** will not effect this war at all. There's too much free **** on the net. Very few will drop $25-$30 for a ****.

While this is not enough to kill off HD-DVD yet it's not good for them at all. Now all HD-DVD has is Paramount and Universal, bet we see them cave to Blu over this next year. They'd be smart if they did.

I stopped buy HD-DVDs long ago mainly due to the lack of lossless audio tracks.

sterling bug

I picked up my first Blu-Ray player on my way home from work last night, the Pioneer Elite BDP-95FD, so this is great news for the Blu-Ray camp. Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are far superior than standard DVD, but the bottom line is having two of them is hurting High Definition on packaged media. It is way too confusing for average joe consumer and many people are on the fence waiting for one to go away. The longer this "format war" goes the more likely high definition discs will become a niche market like laserdisc and Super Audio CD/DVD Audio. With one format you will have a greater acceptance among the general population and see high def discs expand the way standard DVD's did a few years ago. Retailers also don't want two formats because more shelf space is needed to display the two. Thats my two cents.

Early B.

Ron-P wrote: »

**** will not effect this war at all. There's too much free **** on the net. Very few will drop $25-$30 for a ****.

Really? Does the free **** on the 'net come in hi def?

If people are willing to drop $25 for an HD movie disc, why wouldn't you think they'd do the same for an HD wack off disc?

Here's my prediction -- if Blu-ray doesn't have $99 DVD players by this Fall, they'll probably lose. Toshiba will do it, no problem.

venomclan

I heard that HD-DVD not only cancelled their press conference at CES, but now also cancelled their booth at CES. If that is true, it has been an amazing 24 period and basicallt HD-DVD just threw in the towel. I wonder if that can be seen as a breach of contract for Paramount and Universal, thus ending their own exclusive deals...?
Venom

cheddar

I hope the last two studios at least go format neutral sooner rather than later (Paramount probably had some sort of escape clause just in case Warner switched). There are quite a few titles I would like to have...not to mention, Warner still has to release Batman begins and Matrix...

Also, if Warner marketing is to be believed:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080105/ap_on_hi_te/dueling_dvd_formats_12

Sales of set-top high-definition disc players in the fourth quarter of 2007 also factored into Warner's decision.

The company saw an acceleration in sales of Blu-ray players at the end of the quarter, particularly in December, Tsujihara said.

"We always viewed set-tops as the most significant indicator" of consumers' format preference, he said.

Still, one alarming trend Warner keyed on was that consumers didn't appear motivated by price reductions on high-definition disc players.

"When we saw that was not impacting sales in the level that it should have, and the consumer research that we did indicated that the consumers were holding back from buying either one of the two formats ... we thought it was the right time to act," Tsujihara said, noting that even sales of standard DVDs were affected because consumers appeared unsure over which format to go with.

Then the low cost hardware ended up not being as much of a factor as people were predicting. Looks like the fear of continuing low sales for both formats may have spooked Warner into action...

danger boy

I wonder what people will be talking about this year at CES 2008?

*See Kevin Costner, Mary J Blige and Yoko Ono at CES. Oh please.. sign me up right away. LOL

Early B.

This thread needs to be shut down!

aaharvel

Source

Jstas

Hmmm...I wonder if everyone who is into HD-DVD would still feel that way if they knew that HD-DVD is based on current DVD technology and represents essentially the pinnacle of perfromance from that technology. Meanwhile, Blu-ray is all new technology and has expansion potential far beyond where it currently sits.

I already stated why I want Blu-ray to succeed but this this thread made me look into it further. The more I dug, the more I realized that Blu-ray is honestly the way to go. I'm glad to see aaharvel's post.

Normally I can't stand format wars because there are trade-offs on both sides. But right now, the only trade-off that Blu-ray has is cost but that goes away with mass production. The competition that everybody seems to have a hard on for between H-DVD and Blu-ray is not good competition. Sooner or later, one side is going to cut prices so much and lose so much money that the format dies no matter what. That's what ended up happening with DiVX. DiVX was excellent technology with an algorithm for compression that was so efficient that the codecs still survive to this day. But the creators of DiVX priced themselves out of existence trying to make a competition that didn't exist.

This competition between two competing formats is not good because while it may mean things are cheap for consumers, it stagnates technology and advancement and kills the economic market for such things. VHS vs. Betamax was a perfect example of how this competition can kill the better technology.

The jury is unfortunately still out. I still want Blu-ray to succeed and stomp all over what is essentially an inferior and outdated technology in HD-DVD. But we'll have to wait to see. Meanwhile, I'll forgo buying a DVD player until they settle it. If I have to, I'll wait until the next greatest technology comes out. If things settle down and one goes dead, I'm all over the winner, even if it ends up being HD-DVD.

reeltrouble1

Early B. wrote: »

This thread needs to be shut down!

Thanks for the ladies EB, ahhhh, I remember them so well.

RT1

Strong Bad

Ron-P wrote: »

**** will not effect this war at all. There's too much free **** on the net. Very few will drop $25-$30 for a ****.

Agreed!

Back in the 80's, you had no internet or DVD to get your fix, only the format that **** chose. So yes, it's no wonder why **** was so influencial back then.

Today, for what it costs for a single HD-DVD will buy you a months worth unlimited **** website material.

I haven't bought into any format yet, but am hoping BR pulls it out so all studios climb aboard. I also want to wait for higher end players from Denon and such.

John

Early B.

Maybe I'm missing something in this whole format war thing. If I can buy a dual format player for cheap in 6 months or a year, does it really matter to me who "wins?"

Should I really care if Warner goes with Blu-ray? As a consumer, my main motivation for going HD is cost. If it's cheap, I'm in. So the format itself is largely irrelevant. For most consumers, Blu-ray and HD-DVD are basically the same thing. I'm just waiting for the cost of hi def DVD players and discs to decrease, and my wait is not based on who wins the war. If hi def DVD players were on sale at Walmart for $79 and the discs were $9.99, millions more would be buying into HD, regardless of the format(s).

What am I missing?

cheddar

Early B. wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something in this whole format war thing. If I can buy a dual format player for cheap in 6 months or a year, does it really matter to me who "wins?"

Should I really care if Warner goes with Blu-ray? As a consumer, my main motivation for going HD is cost. If it's cheap, I'm in. So the format itself is largely irrelevant. For most consumers, Blu-ray and HD-DVD are basically the same thing. I'm just waiting for the cost of hi def DVD players and discs to decrease, and my wait is not based on who wins the war. If hi def DVD players were on sale at Walmart for $79 and the discs were $9.99, millions more would be buying into HD, regardless of the format(s).

What am I missing?

If I'm reading the comments from Warner correctly, what you may be missing is that your points are great for those early adopters that already have a player (including those that bought out Walmart stock at $98). However, for the health of the format as a whole, they are both looking more like SACD and DVD-A than they are the initial years of DVD. After two full Christmas shopping seasons, both formats are about half a million dedicated players each. When they should be in the several millions by now. So price hasn't been as much of a factor (inflation adjusted, these players are far cheaper than DVD was when it first came out) as the vast majority of people sitting out the whole thing 'cause of the war. And DVD sales are even beginning to tank as more and more people climb on the fence.

So Warner decided to make this announcement before CES to force a single format forward, as they look towards the 3rd Christmas to try and finally get some sort of critical mass and recoup the declining sales of their DVD cash cow. I know consumers do benefit from bogos and $98 players. But a company can't just spend 3 years losing money on hardware or slashing margins on software. Something had to give if they want to make at least one format start adding to the bottom line. Consumers eventually benefit by not having a repeat of the high-def audio wars with a poor niche choice in players and software.

danger boy

Early B. wrote: »

This thread needs to be shut down!

i'm telling Sona on you

danger boy

consumers just aren't jumping on the bandwagon yet for either format, maybe now they will. but they have to go out and buy another player.. and those Blu Ray players are still to expensive for some people. now you they also have to pay more for those DVD movies as well. That is what is keeping people from embracing either format.

Plus having to download updates isn't a whole lot of fun. I want to get my player home, insert a movie and watch it. I don't want to have to update the firmware, have to have HDMI 1.3 and configure my whole home theater just to be able to watch a damn movie.

BD and HD DVD movie prices ranging from $22 to $34 is out effen rageous.

cheddar

danger boy wrote: »

Plus having to download updates isn't a whole lot of fun. I want to get my player home, insert a movie and watch it.

I hear you on this one. Wasn't too long ago I bought a denon 3803, worked out of the box, and it gave me years of flawless usage. Unfortunately, I think complicated electronics are here to stay if we're to get the most out of our increasingly powerful HT systems. Onkyo has a pre/pro with all the bells and whistles for cheap, but to unlock the final few features you have to sign a waiver for the firmware update or take it into the shop 'cause it can brick the unit.