Tales of the Furutech Flattener
schwarcw
Posts: 7,338
The Furutech Flattener Consortium was formed to make it economically practical for 9 or so Forum members, to use the Furutech Record Flattener. Since its debut at the Georgia Polkfest, about four of us had the opportunity to use it in our home environment. I thought Id share a little of my experiences. Any of the other Consortium members who have used the flattener are welcome to add their experiences to this thread. Here is a stock photo:
My first encounter with the flattener was at the Georgia Polkfest. We unwrapped the briefcase size machine and immediately put it to work. We put it through the heating/cooling cycle (1 hour heat, 2 hours cool) on several of Teds LPs. The flattener successfully flattened out small warpage. The records played without any evidence of residual damage from the flattening process. Then we tried it on an album that was hideously warped, (kind of a leper in Teds vinyl collection) this album was so warped it could not have played. To our amazement, after one cycle the record played! The grooves were still, well groovy but the fact that the needle tracked at all was amazing.
I used the machine at my house to flatten about 10 LPs. I cleaned the records with my Nitty Gritty before inserting them into the machine. In all cases, the flattener was able to remove small warps without any problem. I didnt observe any sonic effects or notice any baked in clicks or pops. I did not try the machine on any heavy vinyl.
I took the machine over to analog97s house to service a few LPs while we listened to some tunes. Larry was generous enough to take a few photos and add his observations:
Several LPs were flattened that had "minimal-moderate" warpage. This is defined as a raised area not exceeding approximately 1/8" from the platter. These LP's were new or SOS "sealed old stock" and presumably warped from either temperature extremes during shipping or constriction of shrink-wrap during years of storage. Two were 180 gram vinyl. Results were outstanding. In all cases these LP's laid flat on the platter after the Furutech treatment. No audible sound impact.
Several LP's had moderate warpage, defined as a raised area exceeding 1/8"-1/4" imposing some difficulty in tracking with noticible tone-arm wobble. After treatment, significant improvement was noticed. However, as record warp approached about 1/4", results were not perfect, i.e. the record still had some, but far less, wobble. For LP's with moderate warpage as defined, the results are really quite exceptional.
One LP was unplayable (see pictures) on my Rega P3/2000-RB300 combination. The serious record warp at the edge would not permit the tonearm to swing on the rcord. This amount of warpage was probably about 3/8 at the edge. After treatment, about 90% of the warp was removed and rendered the LP very playable, but there was still some wobble, under 1/8 Id estimate. I tried a second treatment and gained another 5% improvement. (see after pictures) The final result was just a tad better after a second treatment, so Im not sure if a second treatment should be recommended.
Overall, this product grades out at a solid A. The only drawback is the $1,500 investment. If you own enough vinyl that is damaged and/or is irreplaceable, then this machine may be worth the investment. Bottom line, it works! If you have enough warped vinyl, but it!
My first encounter with the flattener was at the Georgia Polkfest. We unwrapped the briefcase size machine and immediately put it to work. We put it through the heating/cooling cycle (1 hour heat, 2 hours cool) on several of Teds LPs. The flattener successfully flattened out small warpage. The records played without any evidence of residual damage from the flattening process. Then we tried it on an album that was hideously warped, (kind of a leper in Teds vinyl collection) this album was so warped it could not have played. To our amazement, after one cycle the record played! The grooves were still, well groovy but the fact that the needle tracked at all was amazing.
I used the machine at my house to flatten about 10 LPs. I cleaned the records with my Nitty Gritty before inserting them into the machine. In all cases, the flattener was able to remove small warps without any problem. I didnt observe any sonic effects or notice any baked in clicks or pops. I did not try the machine on any heavy vinyl.
I took the machine over to analog97s house to service a few LPs while we listened to some tunes. Larry was generous enough to take a few photos and add his observations:
Several LPs were flattened that had "minimal-moderate" warpage. This is defined as a raised area not exceeding approximately 1/8" from the platter. These LP's were new or SOS "sealed old stock" and presumably warped from either temperature extremes during shipping or constriction of shrink-wrap during years of storage. Two were 180 gram vinyl. Results were outstanding. In all cases these LP's laid flat on the platter after the Furutech treatment. No audible sound impact.
Several LP's had moderate warpage, defined as a raised area exceeding 1/8"-1/4" imposing some difficulty in tracking with noticible tone-arm wobble. After treatment, significant improvement was noticed. However, as record warp approached about 1/4", results were not perfect, i.e. the record still had some, but far less, wobble. For LP's with moderate warpage as defined, the results are really quite exceptional.
One LP was unplayable (see pictures) on my Rega P3/2000-RB300 combination. The serious record warp at the edge would not permit the tonearm to swing on the rcord. This amount of warpage was probably about 3/8 at the edge. After treatment, about 90% of the warp was removed and rendered the LP very playable, but there was still some wobble, under 1/8 Id estimate. I tried a second treatment and gained another 5% improvement. (see after pictures) The final result was just a tad better after a second treatment, so Im not sure if a second treatment should be recommended.
Overall, this product grades out at a solid A. The only drawback is the $1,500 investment. If you own enough vinyl that is damaged and/or is irreplaceable, then this machine may be worth the investment. Bottom line, it works! If you have enough warped vinyl, but it!
Carl
Post edited by schwarcw on
Comments
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Cool product. What a price tag though. By the looks of it in person, does it look like something you can duplicate for cheaper using your own parts?
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BaggedLancer, no.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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Come on, there has to be a way to make one treitz! The chinese would have that done in 20 minutes.
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BaggedLancer wrote: »Cool product. What a price tag though. By the looks of it in person, does it look like something you can duplicate for cheaper using your own parts?
$1500 is the price. There are several who have come up with methods of flattening vinyl. One is the two pieces of plate glass in the oven. Noone knows the correct temperature and something tells me it would flatten the grooves out.
This flattener heats the record while it is on a spindle in the vertical postion and to my knoweldge NOTHING touches the grooves while heating. The heating is done, I believe, on the label and groove guard thus keeping the grooves from being distorted.
This thing works very well. -
By the looks of it you can tell it works great....I was just thinking for the more frugal people.
Someone should put a thermocouple in that thing and see what temp it heats the vinyl to. -
I dunno man. This was/is a well built machine with probably lots of research done to insure that it did not damage the LP.BaggedLancer wrote: »Come on, there has to be a way to make one treitz! The chinese would have that done in 20 minutes.
For the same effect on a budget you could get two pieces of glass and a heavy weight that fit in the diameter of the label and set it out in the sunlight for a day or two. That's the redneck way of doing it from what I understand.
I wouldn't trust my LP's sounding the same though.~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
just microwave your records till they flatten out
PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
haha i bet the stink would be awful.
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Good write up Carl and I concur with the class A rating, we need a little consortium emblem to put our stamp on it!!!!! waaaaaaaaa
I now look for warped records, got a couple doozies to try when she comes my way next time.
RT1 -
Man that's pretty steep. I would rather play the odds of finding the album in good condition for $1.00 at the Goodwill.Sharp Elite 70
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Nice write up Carl. I added a column to my Excel LP listings sheet to identify the warped ones. I have several that need flattening. A couple of them even challenge The Clamp, requiring multiple shims to be playable.
In regards to flattening LP's between glass in an oven, there are some threads at the Vinyl Asylum that describe various attempts. Time and temperature all varied as did the results. I don't have the time for my own trail and error oven methods. The well engineered approach is expensive, but appears to deliver good results. Good thing we have our little consortium.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
so tell me this. how do albums become warped anyways? I've got a small stack of about 40 albums and none of them are warped. they are all 20+ years old too. or do you all buy warped ones then flatten em? I'm trying to understand how so many people could have warped vinyl.
PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin: -
Thanks for the review Carl; I have a couple dozen records waiting to be flattened. Most have minor warpes, but there's a couple that are unplayable. I will do the before/after filming to post here._________________________________________________
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Manufacturing defects, improper curing at the press plant, improper storage and excessively tight plastic shrinkwrap on the covers are reasons for warpage. Thinner LP’s are much more prone to warping.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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Thanks for your remarks!
If any Consortium member has a digital camera, it would be nice to get some before and after video!!Carl -
I will do the before/after filming to post here.
I don't have video capability here, but I will take some before and after pics too.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Cd's don't warp:pPlease. Please contact me a ben62670 @ yahoo.com. Make sure to include who you are, and you are from Polk so I don't delete your email. Also I am now physically unable to work on any projects. If you need help let these guys know. There are many people who will help if you let them know where you are.
Thanks
Ben -
I will do the before/after filming to post here.I don't have video capability here, but I will take some before and after pics too.
Hey guys...I found it quite difficult to get decent digital before/after pictures. The only way I found that was 1/2 way decent was to try a 'straight shot' at the rim of the TT. Hopefully, someone can get a better comparison series than I was able to get. The Furutech is really a very impressive device. I hope someboby can capture that big wobble better than I did... -
My worst warp is on a Chicago VIII LP. (Even worse than my Thriller, which The Clamp makes playable). The Chicago LP distorts in an awful way when I shim and clamp it, making it unplayable. IIRC this was a garage sale LP Carl picked up for me. Other than the warp, the LP, jacket, sleeve, wall poster and iron on transfer are near mint so I would love to salvage this LP.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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Scomp,
Excellent picture. My experience with the Furutech says that record of yours will be pretty damn flat and playable. Your picture is better than mine, but both our records were warped to about the same degree. Mine improved about 90-95%, as I said, but was not perfect. -
danger boy wrote: »so tell me this. how do albums become warped anyways? I've got a small stack of about 40 albums and none of them are warped. they are all 20+ years old too. or do you all buy warped ones then flatten em? I'm trying to understand how so many people could have warped vinyl.
I've bought a few that were warped. The only ones I warped myself were ones I put in a record box which did not have the walls clear to the top of the record. It left about 2" sticking out of the top of the box where a lid covered them. Every one of the records stored in this box were warped. This was at a constant 70 degree storage temp.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want...
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SCompRacer wrote: »My worst warp is on a Chicago VIII LP. (Even worse than my Thriller, which The Clamp makes playable).
Fear not! These LPs will live again!
But not for another day as the Furutech is still on the Fedex truck in Grove City, OH:(Carl -
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Flat-earthers prefer the Furutech 3 to 1....
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That Thriller album freaked me out. I could-not-believe how warped that thing was on one side (didn't it look fine on side A but looked warped on the flip side?).SCompRacer wrote: »My worst warp is on a Chicago VIII LP. (Even worse than my Thriller, which The Clamp makes playable). The Chicago LP distorts in an awful way when I shim and clamp it, making it unplayable. IIRC this was a garage sale LP Carl picked up for me. Other than the warp, the LP, jacket, sleeve, wall poster and iron on transfer are near mint so I would love to salvage this LP.
Thanks to Joe's clamp it played fine.
You going to retro fit that dust bug?Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
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I might be able to help with video if you want to add that to the pics Rich.Audio: Polk S15 * Polk S35 * Polk S10 * SVS SB-1000 Pro
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Scomp,
Excellent picture. My experience with the Furutech ....
Thanks for the kind words! Since our edge warps are similar I look forward to a satisfactory repair!
But not for another day as the Furutech is still on the Fedex truck in Grove City, OH:(
Great news! The USPS has your LP’s and I have no idea where they are!:D (But I do have a delivery confirmation number).That Thriller album freaked me out. I could-not-believe how warped that thing was on one side ….
Thanks to Joe's clamp it played fine.
The Clamp is a must have accessory! Through experience, I know just by looking at a warped LP what thickness shim(s) must be used. Thriller has a bubble and edge warp IIRC.You going to retro fit that dust bug?
Since I got the Wave Mechanic and can adjust the speed to compensate for the increased drag, I will give it a go. I need to come up with a block of the proper height for it to track properly.I might be able to help with video if you want to add that to the pics Rich.
That would be great! I used to have a video camera years ago. The basement 'putie has some editing software on it, but I haven't used it in years.Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
Scomp,
Excellent picture. My experience with the Furutech says that record of yours will be pretty damn flat and playable. Your picture is better than mine, but both our records were warped to about the same degree. Mine improved about 90-95%, as I said, but was not perfect.
You guys must have been doing something wrong or didn't follow the directions. The three records that we flattened at Polkfest (one of which was mine) were severely warped, worse than any record I ever saw warped. One, I believe it was the Black Sabbath LP, had several differing warps and I was sure that would never be played again.
All three were run through the Furutech and came out singing on Ted's Rega, I believe he ran the third, (the name escapes me now) a second time to see if running it through again would harm it. It didn't. -
You guys must have been doing something wrong or didn't follow the directions.
I don't believe you did not follow instructions or we did something wrong. Rather, I think it likely that you got a perfect result on a really warped LP for some reason not fully understood. There are different "warps" and different material properties that come into play. Your positive experience offers still more support for the Furutech machine!!
