SDA effect significantly better with SDA 2's than with 1.2 TL's

michaeljhsda2

I swapped out my SDA 2's with the 1.2 TL's and I've noticed that the 1.2's SDA effect is not near as pronounced, wide, etc. as the SDA 2's. Is this a normal finding or is there something amiss with the 1.2 TL's? I positioned the 1.2's at various widths and the effect is still not as good as the 2's.

I-SIG

I think placement and other room interactions make a difference. Sometimes my 1C Studios had a better SDA image than the SRS's, but the realistic overall scale of the sound with the SRS's can't be touched by the 1C's.

Wes

dorokusai

You probably have a genuine issue but the 1.2 is an overrated loudspeaker.

jdhdiggs

To me, the CRS+'s do the best job, the bigger the SDA's get, the muddier the image gets to me. It really wouldn't surprise me to find the 1.2 had less SDA effect then the 2's. To me, the 2's are probably the best all around speaker in the SDA lineup.

DarqueKnight

I have compared the SDA CRS+ (1989 version), SDA 1C, SDA SRS (original), and SDA SRS 1.2TL in my current living room with the same amps and source components.

As I went up in size from the CRS+ to the 1C to the SRS, the sound field became bigger, clearer, more defined and had more realistic weight. In going from the SRS to the SRS 1.2TL, the soundfield had the same dimensions, but the 1.2TL had a more detailed, holographic and three dimensional representation.

I can understand how the sound might become muddier and less defined when going to larger SDA's. I think this is more a function of room interaction and the amplifiers used, particularly if the amplifier is one with a lower damping factor. The larger SDA's simply have more woofers to control. I have always driven my SDA's with high current amplifiers with high damping factors (in the range of 700 to 1000) and have only experienced muddy, ill defined sound with certain cables.

jdhdiggs

Could be Raife. Other than the SDA1B's, all other SDA's I didn't control the placement and power. I have heard the CRS+, 1B, SRS2, 2.3Tl, 1.2TL and while presence and depth increase, the soundfield muddied. I would certainly say your listening trumps mine in these regards.

michaeljhsda2

I am using the same amp/preamp (Carver TFM 35, Carver CT 24) in the same room when comparing the speakers. I have a feeling the caps and resistors may need to be replaced. Thanks for everyone's input.

ben62670

Are they the original SDA2's with side by side tweeters?
I had the original 2's, and the sda effect was much more prevalent, but not very image accurate. It would sound like sounds were coming from behind me. Not reflections like a concert hall, but just out of place sounds. This would be great if I was still a pot smoking teenager, but I am more interested in a more precise image. I am not sure if this is your case, but the 1.2s should be much more realistic than the original 2's. One way to do a quick test is to turn your balance nob (if you have one) to one side. If you hear a muted flat sound coming from the opposing speaker than the SDA is working properly. After saying all this the 1.2s MUST be at least 3 feet from outer walls to operate correctly, and should be 6 to 8 feet apart. Do not toe these speakers in, and they should be about 8 to 12 inches from they wall.

michaeljhsda2

Yes, they are the ones with tweeters side by side. All connections are good on the 1.2's. Placement from side walls are 6 feet away, 10 inches from back wall. If the 1.2's are designed to sound more realistic than the original 2's, that's fine by me. Just wanted to make sure this is what should be expected from the 1.2's. Thanks ben62670 and everyone else.

heiney9

Do your SDA 2's have a dimensional tweeter? I think most will find the sound stage and SDA properties on the original (older) SDA's to be more dramatic. I feel it's a lot more "artificial" in the early models that utilize a dimensional tweeter.

Later models have much more natural and subtle sound stage characteristics. A little less dramatic and spacey sounding for lack of a better description. The other suggestions in the thread are possible too and the big one could be room interaction.

H9

Polk65

In nearfield (5 feet tweet to tweet) I have heard and felt a larger soundstage from SDA-2B's than SDA-1.2TL's. The great Dork speaks truth but experimentation with a deep room is worthwhile. My fav's are 2.3TL, 2B, CRS+ (2B and CRS+ share the same parts).

heiney9

Lasareath wrote: »

H9, I think it is room interaction. If you look in the Compendium on page 68 you'll see this room with the side walls like 12 feet from the 1.2's. I think when you put larger SDA's in your house that you need to extend those side walls as well in order to hear the correct soundstage.

Sal

I agree to a point, but he does have older SDA 2's with the dimensional tweeter and those do give the "impression" of having a more dramatic SDA sound (artificial IMO). But I also feel that if you have the big daddy SDA's you need to have a proper room as they can overpower certain size rooms and sound less than optimal.

H9

ben62670

Lasareath wrote: »

We're looking for a house, our own house, And hopefully i can find one with a big basement where I can make a huge room for my 1.2tl's, but for now I have to suffer

Sal

I feel your pain you poor suffering ****. You have one of the nicest sets of 1.2RDO's on the forum:p

DarqueKnight

He has one of the nicest sets of 1.2RD0's in the world.

michaeljhsda2

To Lasareath. There is exceptional clarity and accuracy with mids and highs. However, the bass response of my 1.2TL's seems to be lacking. Case in point...the room should be shaking at the end of Fletcher Memorial Home on Pink Floyd's Final Cut CD. At first I attributed the reduced bass response to the fact that I had the speakers in my finished basement (carpet over concrete floor). A couple of days ago I decided to move them upstairs to my carpeted living room to see if the bass response improved. It didn't. Just wondering if your speakers are producing really deep bass (powered subwoofer type bass). Thanks Mike

ben62670

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

To Lasareath. There is exceptional clarity and accuracy with mids and highs. However, the bass response of my 1.2TL's seems to be lacking. Case in point...the room should be shaking at the end of Fletcher Memorial Home on Pink Floyd's Final Cut CD. At first I attributed the reduced bass response to the fact that I had the speakers in my finished basement (carpet over concrete floor). A couple of days ago I decided to move them upstairs to my carpeted living room to see if the bass response improved. It didn't. Just wondering if your speakers are producing really deep bass (powered subwoofer type bass). Thanks Mike

My experience with SDA bass is that it is tight, felt, and not boomy loud. Yes you should have plenty of bass. Push in on your passive radiator, and see how quick the mid woofers return to their natural position. You may have an air leak.

John in MA

I've been surprised with the lack of bass in my 1.2TLs, espcially since I'm moving from older McIntoshes. My current setup's a poor fit for SDAs, but the Polks aren't producing nearly the low frequencies I'd expect for anything this size. Heck, a few days ago I sold a pair of tiny Advent bookshelf speakers and their "felt" bass was dramatic in comparison.

There are low frequencies I just can't hear on the Polks unless they're cranked up out of proportion to the treble end.

michaeljhsda2

Thanks, I'll give that a try. brb

ben62670

When I have mine cranked up I can be in my office 50 feet away, and I can feel it in the concrete floor. In the room it does not seem loud. I feel like I am getting body punched during hard hitting bass. I love PR's so don't get me wrong, but all the mw's are running out of phase with the PR's. Their can be issues in some rooms. SDA's are probably one of the more picky speakers to set up in the speaker world. The best advice I can give is check for air leakage, and move them closer, and further from the wall behind them.

michaeljhsda2

There is instantaneous excursion and rapid return when pushing passive radiator.

michaeljhsda2

Yes, I tried various depths and widths to no avail. I figured moving them to the upstairs living room would pick up the bass but no such luck.

michaeljhsda2

I'm wondering if changing out the caps and resistors would solve the problem?

ben62670

Ok time too start feeling for air leaks while pushing on the PR. Not fun. Do keep in mind there are 8 MW's that have vented voice coils.

ben62670

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

I'm wondering if changing out the caps and resistors would solve the problem?

Tighten up. Help yes. Fix severe lack of bass. No.

michaeljhsda2

Everythings tight. Midwoofs respond instantly when pushing on the PR. Guess I'll have to run a powered subwoofer to make up for the lacking bass. JK

ben62670

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

Guess I'll have to run a powered subwoofer to make up for the lacking bass. JK

For movies Yes.
For music. If you need to run a separate sub then you have issues with your speakers, or you like loud boomy bass.
The midwoofers will respond instantly to pressing on the PR, but if they retract right away, I mean almost instantly then there is an air leak. It could be a seam in the cabnet, or the speaker gaskets.

michaeljhsda2

I don't like loud boomy bass, just accurate bass. I am very familiar with the Pink Floyd song that I mentioned and the bass should be there, at the end of the song especially.

hearingimpared

I use "Shine on You Crazy Diamond" as a reference amoung others. My 1.2 TLs do a magnificent job of soundstaging, imaging and produces very fine subtle inner detail. Mine are positioned perfectly in my room. Since I've gone to a better amplifier, my room is interfering with the music so I need to do some room treatments.

michaeljhsda2

Thanks for the input. I'll check out those possibilities.

michaeljhsda2

If I click on "quick reply to this message" shouldn't the person that initially posted appear (in grey color box with the quote of that person) be just above my post? Doesn't seem to be happening....

michaeljhsda2

Just figured it out, should be clicking on quote instead of quick reply