SDA effect significantly better with SDA 2's than with 1.2 TL's

heiney9

For those of you lacking bass on your SDA's you have an issue either with your listening room or placement, mechanical problems with the speakers or your gear is lacking. My 1C's fill my room with extremely low and tight bass even at low listening levels.

More than any other speaker I've had. More than my Lsi 9's or RTA-11T's. It's extremely accurate and you tend to feel it more than hear it. It's not sloppy or muddy or boomy and if that's what you are used to, it takes awhile to realize real bass doesn't sound that way.

My guess is if you have no air leaks that it's a placement issue or gear issue or both.

Good luck and keep experimenting. SDA's aren't too difficult to set up but small placement changes can make a big difference.

H9

F1nut

I agree with the others, you have an air leak, room problems or the power gear isn't up to the task. Start with the air leak as the mid drivers shouldn't move in as quickly as you state. My SDA's have excellent bass even at low volume levels.

John in MA

My current placement is terrible, but only for stereo/critical listening purposes. One's in a corner, one isn't. Too-small room. This isn't a long-term situation but there's nothing I can do about it right now.

Speakers have no air leaks, are all original and immaculate, and my gear is stout and not even close to being stressed at the volumes I use it at.

They're certainly capable of very deep and powerful bass, but it's like you're listening to them with a low-mute filter turned on. Anything below a certain frequency doesn't have the presence I'd expect to hear. Everything else I've had in here other than Klipsch Heresys (shriekers) was more comfortable on the low end. Other than that I'm extremely impressed, the 1.2TLs are probably the most musical speakers I've had so far.

hearingimpared

John in MA wrote: »

My current placement is terrible, but only for stereo/critical listening purposes. One's in a corner, one isn't. Too-small room. This isn't a long-term situation but there's nothing I can do about it right now.

Speakers have no air leaks, are all original and immaculate, and my gear is stout and not even close to being stressed at the volumes I use it at.

They're certainly capable of very deep and powerful bass, but it's like you're listening to them with a low-mute filter turned on. Anything below a certain frequency doesn't have the presence I'd expect to hear. Everything else I've had in here other than Klipsch Heresys (shriekers) was more comfortable on the low end. Other than that I'm extremely impressed, the 1.2TLs are probably the most musical speakers I've had so far.

Man you definitely need to get a bigger room. Having a 1.2 TL against a wall completely eliminates that side from any SDA effect. I hope you get to hear them in a much bigger room.

John in MA

Like I said, it's hopefully a temporary situation. Planning for the future and all that. Compounding the problem is a low roof dormer--I'd be willing to bet I have the worst listening room of anyone on the board.

I did hear them in a very large room with proper placement, so I know how they can sound when given space. Not much difference in bass, though.

The SDA effect of the speaker against the wall should still be usable as long as I can prevent reflections from the mirror array. Just without the soundstage you need breathing room for. It's all very much a work in progress. I'd just like to get a warmer sound out of these things for the time being. Might see about trying a different power amp once I get my good preamp repaired.

hearingimpared

John in MA wrote: »

Like I said, it's hopefully a temporary situation. Planning for the future and all that. Compounding the problem is a low roof dormer--I'd be willing to bet I have the worst listening room of anyone on the board.

I did hear them in a very large room with proper placement, so I know how they can sound when given space. Not much difference in bass, though.

The SDA effect of the speaker against the wall should still be usable as long as I can prevent reflections from the mirror array. Just without the soundstage you need breathing room for. It's all very much a work in progress. I'd just like to get a warmer sound out of these things for the time being. Might see about trying a different power amp once I get my good preamp repaired.

You may not need a new power amp if your preamp sets the flavor. I've always been in the camp that the preamp sets the flavor of the rig.

John in MA

Actually, I'm aware of my current power amp (Phase Linear 400, 200WPC) being rather harsh, at least compared to the parade of smaller equipment it replaced. I'd like to try something more modern or more generously built, maybe with a warmer reputation, at least to satisfy my curiosity. If someone gave me a suitcase of cash I'd run out and grab an MC2300.

My good preamp's a Phase Linear 4000/II, one of the really nice early Bob Carver jobs. It has a lovely phono stage. Also has a lovely failure in the power supply.

heiney9

hearingimpared wrote: »

You may not need a new power amp if your preamp sets the flavor. I've always been in the camp that the preamp sets the flavor of the rig.

I would agree. The source is very important as well. It's splitting hairs as it's all important right down to wire and cables. But if you have a decent power amp and need to change the "flavor" of your system the preamp can be key.

Very odd that you say when your 1.2TL's were set up properly they didn't have a lot of bass.

John in MA

They had good bass, just not what I'm used to in a speaker this size. In a large setup it balanced out a little better since you're able to back off and turn it up. At the time I assumed it had something to do with the gear driving them. Now that I'm running my own I'm not sure.

michaeljhsda2

BTW, tone controls are set at flat. If I slighty increase the bass tone control, good bass response is heard.

ben62670

I feel that the bigger the SDA's the more room they need to bloom. Mine have 16 mid woofers , and 4 10" PRs in each cabinet. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53273
When they were in a 22' x22' room they were incredible. In a small 10' x 12' room they were not nice at all. I had a visitor that had to hear them. I hooked them up, and with that small of an area the phase issues with the tweeters, and the lack of the lower end bass was very disappointing.

heiney9

Well we all hear things differently and have a somewhat different idea of what bass should sound like. My 1C's don't lack in that area at all and I don't even have tone controls. The bigger SDA's should even dig a little deeper than my 1C's. I can't explain it, but perhaps if the crossover parts are original that's where to start.

When I redid the x-overs in my 5b's everything was night and day better including bass response. My 1C's have Sonic Caps and Mills as well as the RD0's and they put a smile on face every time I listen.

I was rocking out to some heavy industrial dance type music (Front 242) last night and my walls and floor were literally shaking and I could feel the bass just envelope me. Big time scale and dynamics.

Good luck guys and the mods/refreshing are very much worth it if you are into that kind of thing.

H9

ben62670

H9 what are you driving your with now?

heiney9

What Ben says is very true and probably why with my current room I won't go any bigger than the 1C's I currently have. Believe it or not there is such a thing as having to much speaker for a given space. That is it won't sound optimal in certain settings.

It's kind of like being a foot away from a 65" HD TV, you can still see the image but it would look a lot better if you were 4-5 feet away. Best example I could come up with.

heiney9

ben62670 wrote: »

H9 what are you driving your with now?

Same 20 year old Adcom 545. The Nelson Pass stuff will have to wait awhile. Had to replace the HG on my GTI to the tune of $1400 recently. :)

ben62670

heiney9 wrote: »

Same 20 year old Adcom 545. The Nelson Pass stuff will have to wait awhile. Had to replace the HG on my GTI to the tune of $1400 recently. :)

I was using a 5400 with custom 1B's wanna be home brews, and was very satisfied for what it was.

heiney9 wrote: »

It's kind of like being a foot away from a 65" HD TV, you can still see the image but it would look a lot better if you were 4-5 feet away. Best example I could come up with.

Excellent Analogy;)

trubluluc

I have or have had most of SDA speaker line with the exception of the 2's.
And I have always wanted a pair, at this point I'm just out of room.

The CRS+ has an exceptionally detailed and clean sound, but does not compare with the bigger boys for bass output, how could they?

The 1C's, would be my favorite midsize.

The 1.2tl's are still my favorite all around.

I have noticed the bigger the speaker, the more real estate it takes to realize and open up the sound stage.

-Luc

hearingimpared

I think with the 1.2TLs the most important factor to realizing that huge soundstage and depth is to have a good 5' on each side of the speakers away from the walls. I've tried differing distances apart and for my room 20' by 11' 6" the best is 6' 5 1/2" apart and 8" from the back wall.

My sweet spot starts at exactly 6' 5 1/2" from dead center between the speakers out to about 8.5'. I will bring my head forwards and backwards to get a different soundstage or hear the bass response better.

michaeljhsda2

Thanks for everyone' input thusfar. In regards to the bass response of my 1.2 TL's, all 8left speaker midwoofers have far less excursion when compared to the right speakers 8 midwoofers. I also noticed that there are Dayton capacitors on the board of the left speaker unlike Ricardo's board before his upgrade. I am going to pull the right speaker crossover to check those capacitors.

michaeljhsda2

Also noticed that the baffle material is all bunched up toward the top of the left speaker cabinet. The right speaker baffle material extends all the way down to the binding posts. There are Dayton caps on the right crossover as well. Instead of unsoldering the cap from the back of the board, looks like someone cut the wire midway to one of the caps and soldered it on.

F1nut

Looks like you're onto a few issues with your speakers. Good luck.

michaeljhsda2

Thanks F1. Despite the decrease in bass on the left side compared to the right, they still sound remarkably good. They will sound even better when the problem is fixed.

michaeljhsda2

I'm gonna swap xovers and see if the problem goes to the right channel speaker.

John in MA

When you're talking about excursion, do you mean when driven with a signal? Is your amp/preamp/source powering both speakers evenly in mono?

If the crossovers have been hacked who knows what's going on. Grab a schematic and start checking. Could be that a mistake was made somewhere.

michaeljhsda2

John in MA wrote: »

When you're talking about excursion, do you mean when driven with a signal? Is your amp/preamp/source powering both speakers evenly in mono?

If the crossovers have been hacked who knows what's going on. Grab a schematic and start checking. Could be that a mistake was made somewhere.

yes, while playing a CD there is barely any MW excursion and standing in front of left speaker, there is noticeably less bass than the right. I have not tried playing in mono but I will try that before switching crossovers.

John in MA

If you haven't tried it in mono keep in mind that a stereo recording has good chance of having higher bass on one channel than the other.

F1nut

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

I'm gonna swap xovers and see if the problem goes to the right channel speaker.

Good idea. While you're in there check that the values are within published specs and everything is where it's suppose to be. Also, check the wiring at the driver end. Black or blue is positive. White or green is negative. The schematics are posted on the forum.

michaeljhsda2

F1nut wrote: »

Good idea. While you're in there check that the values are within published specs and everything is where it's suppose to be. Also, check the wiring at the driver end. Black or blue is positive. White or green is negative. The schematics are posted on the forum.

Everything is within specs and where it's supposed to be except for one MAJOR thing....the input wire harness was not snapped all the way into the board on the left crossover. I snapped it back in and now all is well. Whomever did the "upgrade" on the crossovers only replaced the 12uF caps, using 12uF Dayton's. The speakers sound incredibly detailed as usual, but the bass that was missing is now present. At some point I will replace all the caps and resistors with SonicCaps and Mills. Thanks for the advice.

michaeljhsda2

F1nut wrote: »

Good idea. While you're in there check that the values are within published specs and everything is where it's suppose to be. Also, check the wiring at the driver end. Black or blue is positive. White or green is negative. The schematics are posted on the forum.

Double post not intended

Airplay355

I have 2B 's and I still have no idea what the SDA effect sounds like. Just sounds like a nice speaker to me...