Tires?

bobman1235

I have a feeling this may devolve into a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge type argument, but I know there's a bunch of knowledgeable car guys around here so I'll throw it out there.

I need new tires for my car. It's an '04 Subaru. I want a decent all around all-season tire. I don't care enough to buy another set of wheels to have a dedicated winter tire - I know it's the best way to go, but just not worth the hassle for me. So I need something that's decent in the snow and rain, but also decent in the summer. I understand with an all-season I'm compromising on all of those things, but I'm sure there are a few good ones out there. Anything is better than the OEM crap I have on there now, anyway.

Based on TireRack reviews and some Subaru message boards, I'm leaning towards either the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS or the Michilen Pilot Exalto A/S.

Anyone have experience with either of these or recommendations on others? Preferably something a little more than "Michelin sucks, buy Goodyear".

Serendipity

bobman1235 wrote: »

I have a feeling this may devolve into a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge type argument, but I know there's a bunch of knowledgeable car guys around here so I'll throw it out there.

I need new tires for my car. It's an '04 Subaru. I want a decent all around all-season tire. I don't care enough to buy another set of wheels to have a dedicated winter tire - I know it's the best way to go, but just not worth the hassle for me. So I need something that's decent in the snow and rain, but also decent in the summer. I understand with an all-season I'm compromising on all of those things, but I'm sure there are a few good ones out there. Anything is better than the OEM crap I have on there now, anyway.

Based on TireRack reviews and some Subaru message boards, I'm leaning towards either the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS or the Michilen Pilot Exalto A/S.

Anyone have experience with either of these or recommendations on others? Preferably something a little more than "Michelin sucks, buy Goodyear".

The Michelin Energy series are pretty good. They were the tires that came with our old Nissan.

RuSsMaN

The Pilot is a great tire.

heiney9

Tire rack is a great place to purchase tires if you have someone who can mount them for you. I've used Tire Rack for over 10 years and they have top notch CS.

A good all season tire I've had experience with is Bridgestone G-009. My parents and brother both have a set on their cars.

IMO, Micehlin is way over priced. Great tires no doubt but hugely expensive for no other reason than the name and international ad campaign.

Bridgestone Potenza you mention is going to be a no go in the snow if you expect to do any snow driving.

Another great all season tire is the Kumho ASX.

I run summer tires during the warm season and winter tires (Blizzaks) in the cold weather.

H9

Sherardp

Tire rack is awesome, they even shipped to me in Japan. Japan itself is crazy expensive for tires, I paid 160 bucks for 265/35/22 tire, same tire in Japan was 400 bucks. Rubberbands(low profile tires) cost a grip out here. Bridgestones are what I run on the IS300 and they are awesome tires.

dorokusai

I've had great success with aftermarket Continental and Kuhmo Ecsta in the past few years. I can't recall what model Conti but it was a modestly priced all-season tire. Check out www.tirerack.com for some reviews on the models you are thinking about. I find them pretty useful and the ratings they use are valuable to me as well.

I will never buy a Michelin or Bridgestone tire again.

strider

We put Michelin's on most of of the cars that come through the shop where I work. They're usually more expensive then other manufacturers, but the added cost is worth it, IMO. I can't say that I've seen that particular model of Michelin on anything, but can't imagine it would be any different quality-wise than the others in the Pilot line. Between Tire Racks' info and the opinions of those on a Subaru forum I think you've asked the right people.

shack

dorokusai wrote:

I've had great success with aftermarket Continental and Kuhmo Ecsta in the past few years. I can't recall what model Conti but it was a modestly priced all-season tire. Check out www.tirerack.com for some reviews on the models you are thinking about. I find them pretty useful and the ratings they use are valuable to me as well.

I will never buy a Michelin or Bridgestone tire again.

I will never use Michelin again either...and I have no experience with Bridgestone. My last set of Continentals was pretty good (ContiSportContact). That said, 4 of my 5 cars are currently running Kuhmos.

BAD ASP

Tire rack has a great service on their website that allows you to pick the type and size tire you need and they have a chart that rates each tire for all of the conditions you will encounter. I have had great luck with the goodyear aquatreds on my daily drivers. I have also been very satisfied with the Yokohama tires (conditions vary) on my cobras. The tires that you mentioned are all great tires and you will see them rated on the tire rack charts. Good luck.
The following graph is copied from their web site but the website is in color and extremely readable / user friendly. As you can see they rate the Pilot and the Potenza 1 and 2.



Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S 1 100% 8.5 8.9 9.0 9.0 9.2 9.0 8.2 7.6 7.6 9.0 8.7 9.0 2,992,727
Bridgestone Potenza G 009 2 92% 7.7 8.4 8.4 8.2 8.7 8.2 7.6 6.8 6.9 8.2 7.9 8.3 10,070,954
Yokohama AVID V4S 3 90% 8.0 8.3 8.3 8.6 8.9 8.6 6.7 5.6 6.0 8.5 8.2 8.3 9,210,634
BFGoodrich Traction T/A H 4 89% 7.5 8.3 8.4 8.5 8.8 8.5 7.4 6.6 6.5 7.7 7.2 7.3 12,935,411
Yokohama AVID H4S 4 89% 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 8.8 8.4 6.7 5.9 5.9 8.4 8.1 8.2 8,873,295
BFGoodrich Traction T/A V 6 87% 7.4 8.2 8.4 8.5 8.9 8.4 7.1 6.0 6.0 7.5 7.1 7.5 4,517,836
Dunlop SP Sport A2 Plus 7 86% 7.3 7.9 7.9 8.2 8.5 8.2 7.0 6.2 6.1 7.8 7.8 7.0 2,504,835
Fuzion HRi 8 86% 7.4 7.9 8.0 7.8 8.4 7.9 7.0 5.8 6.1 8.0 7.5 8.0 3,236,098
Sumitomo HTR H4 9 84% 7.5 7.5 7.7 8.1 8.5 8.2 6.4 4.9 5.7 7.9 7.6 8.2 1,175,605
Goodyear Eagle GT-HR 10 82% 6.7 7.5 7.5 7.7 8.3 7.8 6.5 5.1 5.2 7.7 7.6 7.6 3,579,809
Kumho Ecsta AST 11 78% 6.9 7.5 7.6 7.6 8.2 7.7 5.2 4.1 4.2 8.0 7.6 7.1 1,133,747
Goodyear Eagle RS-A EMT 12 78% 6.5 7.1 7.3 8.3 8.3 8.6 5.9 4.8 5.3 6.1 6.3 6.3 733,495
Pirelli P6 Four Seasons 13 72% 3.8 6.7 6.9 7.2 7.7 7.4 5.7 4.6 4.8 6.6 5.9 5.2 11,304,902
Pirelli P6 allroad 14 65% 2.9 6.1 6.5 6.8 7.2 6.8 5.5 4.8 4.2 5.9 4.9 3.4 1,420,019
Goodyear Eagle RS-A 15 64% 3.7 5.6 5.7 6.8 7.4 7.0 4.6 3.2 3.3 6.5 6.1 5.7 67,096,407
Bridgestone Potenza RE92A 16 63% 2.8 5.0 5.4 6.3 7.1 6.4 4.4 3.6 3.2 6.8 6.5 5.6 3,004,743
Firestone Firehawk GTA 02 17 60% 3.2 4.9 5.2 6.5 7.2 6.8 3.7 3.1 3.3 6.0 5.3 5.6 9,112,928
Firestone Firehawk GTA-03 18 59% 2.8 4.6 5.3 6.3 7.2 7.0 3.8 3.5 4.1 5.4 4.4 5.0 564,958
Bridgestone Potenza RE92 19 58% 2.4 4.8 4.9 6.0 6.8 6.3 3.8 3.0 2.8 6.3 6.2 5.3 46,250,728



Info based on consumers completing The Tire Rack's online survey. "10" is the highest. See key below or read detailed descriptions of survey categories.

Tire Performance Ratings:


Superior 8.6-10
Excellent 6-8.5
Good 4.6-6.5
Fair 2.6-4.5
Unacceptable 0-2.5
Would buy again?


Definitely 8.6-10
Probably 6-8.5
Possibly 4.6-6.5
Probably Not 2.6-4.5
Definitely Not 0-2.5

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Willow

My dad swears by his Toyo's.... he said raod noise is minimal, wear is good and traction is very good. I currently use the OEM Dunlop tires on my SUV, we too are looking for new tires but winter ones....

strider

dorokusai wrote: »

I've had great success with aftermarket Continental and Kuhmo Ecsta in the past few years. I can't recall what model Conti but it was a modestly priced all-season tire. Check out www.tirerack.com for some reviews on the models you are thinking about. I find them pretty useful and the ratings they use are valuable to me as well.

I didn't see a Conti on Tire Rack's site that got even passable reviews. We see most of the AWD wagons come through with Conti 4x4 Contact as the OEM tire, which is profiled as a sport truck tire on Tire Rack. I know a good deal of the European cars come with Contis, and a lot of people swear by them, but in my experience the AWD cars I deal with ate those things ( I think they came with these) in as low as 25k miles.

shack

Several Continentals got very high Tire Rack reveiws (ContiExtremeContact, ContiPremierContact, ContiProContact...some got very, very low reivews (ContiTouringContact CT95). Either way, I think they are a little pricey and there are better choices even though I was very pleased with the peroformance of the two sets I've owned.

dorokusai

The old, 2003 Audi came stock with OEM Pirelli P6 and the Continentals performed way better. YMMV.

F1nut

I've been sold on Michelin's for years now. Their time in F1 has resulted in a nice trickle down to their street tires.

Jstas

Between those two, I would honestly go with the Potenzas. We have a few Subaru owners that swear by my buddy's shop because he does good work and I've mounted those Potenzas on at least 6 Subarus in the past two months. They all seem to like them and no complaints either.

My personal experience has been good with both Pirelli and Kumho. Then again, it is a truck and the tires are decidedly different. But a few people I know like the Pirellis on small cars like a WRX or a Lancer. I don't know what Kumho would have to fit your ride but everyone I know who is rolling on Kumho's for any kind of vehicle, including me, has nothing but glowing reviews for them. I don't think you could go wrong with either brand.


My experience with Michelin has been ok at best. They are quiet and comfortable tires with good mileage but when put up against the hotter performers in the catergories, they fall very short. Good all-season, very stable and safety oriented but if you want decent dry weather performance, I find the Michelins to usually have a compound too hard to be a real, high performance option. Michelins work better on luxo cruisers and family cars IMO. Never really liked the Pilot series either.

BaggedLancer

I prefer Micky Thompson...nevermind you were looking for all-season.

Anyway, good experience with Toyo and Yokohama. My favorite tire so far in my short 7 year driving career was my Hankook tires. Those things gripped awesome and I even went through a New England winter with them on my car.(more of a summer tire)

This will my last year running on my Potenzas for all-season. I plan to get new tires in the spring for my summer tires and next fall I will get some blizzaks for the winter.

heiney9

Kuhmo will most likely be my next summer performance tire when spring rolls around. My current summer tires (now in storage) were Yohohama AVS ES-100's which were sticky as hell but sadly didn't give much over 20K in mileage. Granted a very soft tire and 20K is about average.

In the spring I'm either going with Kuhmo Ecsta SPT or the the new Yokohama S-Drive. As I stated before I've had the most experience with Bridgestone and Yokohama but the people I know who run Kuhmo sware by them, and the for the cost they are a true bargain.

Mom and Dad's Passat came with standard issue Conti's and they were less than impressive. Currently running Bridgestone G-009 and they are a really great all around tire. Excellent wet charateristics, very good response, quiet and nice wear characteristics.

Stay away from Pirelli P6 series tires as I get the impression they are an old technology. When the P6 and P600 and P6000 came out they were pretty good, not so sure today but it's been awhile since I've known someone who runs them.

My bud just bought a brand new Mustang GT and they came with standard issue Pirelli P6 4 Season so time will tell how they hold up. He needed all season tires here for the Midwest.

So many choices it's a tough decision.

H9

BaggedLancer

heiney9 wrote: »

Kuhmo will most likely be my next summer performance tire when spring rolls around. My current summer tires (now in storage) were Yohohama AVS ES-100's which were sticky as hell but sadly didn't give much over 20K in mileage. Granted a very soft tire and 20K is about average.

It's funny you say that about mileage on tires. Does anyone actually get the 40,000 to 60,000 some tires are actually rated for? Especialy up here on new england roads, tires get chewed through. And I noticed on my AWD car, it's even worse.

bobman1235

BaggedLancer wrote: »

It's funny you say that about mileage on tires. Does anyone actually get the 40,000 to 60,000 some tires are actually rated for? Especialy up here on new england roads, tires get chewed through. And I noticed on my AWD car, it's even worse.

Depends how picky you are I guess. My car that I'm replacing the tires on has the OEMs on it and I'm at almost 50k. Granted I don't drive like a nutjob or push my tires too hard. Nor do I really know what a "performance" tire feels like, that's why I just want a decent all-around tire. I'm much more concerned with stability in bad conditions than beign able to take a corner at 60mph.

BaggedLancer

bobman1235 wrote: »

I'm much more concerned with stability in bad conditions than beign able to take a corner at 60mph.

So why not just do a winter tire on a steel rim for the winter and then put the stock tires on with some sort of summerish tire for the rest of the seasons?

Granted it's a little more money but if it's safety that concerns you dedicated winter tires are the way to go. Blizzaks, Observes, and some others are a few good names. My friend just got a set of winter tires brand new with steel wheels in 16" from Town UnFair Tire for about $650.

halo

Goodyear Assurance TripleTred (All-Season).

Put a set on my bro's car and he LOVES them. Replaced the OEM Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus (Grand Touring All-Season). Just had our first snow storm and he said they handled great.

heiney9

BaggedLancer wrote: »

It's funny you say that about mileage on tires. Does anyone actually get the 40,000 to 60,000 some tires are actually rated for? Especialy up here on new england roads, tires get chewed through. And I noticed on my AWD car, it's even worse.

Not on a soft tire and I'm religious about tire pressure and rotation. I'm guessing I got about 20K, but it's hard to say because I switch to snow tires for about 5 months out of the year. I only put between 8-9K a year on my car (less in the winter) and the tires were bought in July of '03. So I got basically 3 seasons out of them Apr-Nov. so perhaps it was more like 15K I put on them. They are completely worn out at this point.

I had a set of Sumitomo Sirxon 4 on my old GTI and I managed to get almost 50K on those but again they were worn down slightly past the wear bar indicators, but those were NOT high performance tires. They wore like nails and were not very sporty. But at that time I was commuting 80 miles a day round trip and I needed something that would last awhile.

H9

heiney9

BaggedLancer wrote: »

So why not just do a winter tire on a steel rim for the winter and then put the stock tires on with some sort of summerish tire for the rest of the seasons?

Granted it's a little more money but if it's safety that concerns you dedicated winter tires are the way to go. Blizzaks, Observes, and some others are a few good names. My friend just got a set of winter tires brand new with steel wheels in 16" from Town UnFair Tire for about $650.

Have to agree here. Stock rims on my GTI are 15's and I bought summer performance tires with new 16" rims for summer and run Bridgestone Blizzaks on the stock 15" rims in the winter and a dedicated snow tire is awesome in the snow and ice. We just had a horrible ice/snow strom this weekend and I had no trouble getting around.

Last year I only remember a handful of times my ABS was activated or my traction control kicked in because the snow tires have such great grip and control in nasty weather. Only time they were activated was on sheets of ice otherwise I could go anywhere my lowered clearance would allow. .

It costs more upfront but I have yet to encounter an All Season tire that does well in snow and ice. They do alright but nowhere near a dedicated snow/ice tire.

Just one more idea to think about

H9

halo

with regular rotation, balancing, wheel alignments, and monitoring tire pressure you will get the rated wear mileage out of a tire. I used to work for Goodyear. People who came in on a regular basis got their rated mileage or above 90% of the time (barring road hazzards / unrepairable tire damage).

read-alot

Michelin

If I told you how many miles I got out of the last set ya'll wouldn't believe me.

Good dependable tire that's well worth the extra bucks.

strider

I agree with having a set of snows on steelies would be the best bet, but Bobman seemed to not want to go that route. It is pretty amazing what a car with snow tires can go through.

As far as getting the rated number of miles out of a set of tires, rotation and tire pressure are the keys. I've got a tick over 80k on my BFG All Terrains. Tire rotation every oil change, check the pressures a couple of times in between trips into the shop; I haven't even had them balanced, nor an alignment performed, since I put them on.

bobman1235

Maybe I should consider dedicated wheels with winter tires on them. I'd be a bit more willing to go that route if I had a decent set of summer tires already. For me to do that, I'd need to buy winter tires, new wheels, AND summer tires come the springtime. That seems like a lot of money. I've been driving for 10+ years now, and have never had winter tires (honestly, I've never bought tires for a car period. Alwyas just got a new car before it was necessary). So I've survived without them so far, I figure if I get something that's decent and not great in the snow I'll already be better off than I ever have been, right?

My logic is whacked, I know. I'll look into a dedicated winter setup, maybe you guys are right.

Jstas

halo wrote: »

with regular rotation, balancing, wheel alignments, and monitoring tire pressure you will get the rated wear mileage out of a tire. I used to work for Goodyear. People who came in on a regular basis got their rated mileage or above 90% of the time (barring road hazzards / unrepairable tire damage).

I have honestly never gotten the rated mileage on a Goodyear tire of any kind. I maintain my vehicle pretty well and tire pressures are checked and rotated and I can't keep a set of Goodyears under my truck for more than 20,000 miles.

wodom1

BaggedLancer wrote: »

It's funny you say that about mileage on tires. Does anyone actually get the 40,000 to 60,000 some tires are actually rated for? Especialy up here on new england roads, tires get chewed through. And I noticed on my AWD car, it's even worse.

The Badyear Wranglers that came on my Durango lasted for almost 60k miles, but I didn't like them at all. I replaced them with Bridgestone all-terrains and have been much happier. I know you're looking for car tires so this post doesn't matter, but I like Bridgestone. I've only ever bought truck tires.

halo

Jstas wrote: »

I have honestly never gotten the rated mileage on a Goodyear tire of any kind. I maintain my vehicle pretty well and tire pressures are checked and rotated and I can't keep a set of Goodyears under my truck for more than 20,000 miles.

We sold more than just Goodyear tires but, from my experience (almost three years working in one location), I stand by my orirginal statement. YMMV :)

halo

Could have something to do with all the burnouts you were doing