Bi wired?

tiger763
tiger763 Posts: 10
edited November 2002 in Speakers
I wonder if anyone can tell me what bi wired is?I see it being mentioned on the threads if it is something that should be done?
:confused:
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
    there are alot of searches you can do regarding bi-wire&amping. Many are very funny and will put you into hysterics.

    HBomb

    4th Beer and I'm ready for more
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
    Oh... don't forget bi-Amping
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  • tiger763
    tiger763 Posts: 10
    edited November 2002
    I will check into that right away!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2002
    Oh man, you wanna see the **** parade in full swing? Let's start this over again.


    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
    BDT, Take care of US civilians out here! We are All counting on ya.
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2002
    Man, I'm half in the bag, I ain't protecting shee-at today. I'm listening to Fleetwood Mac and having a few MHL's for nascarmann.....I'll have one for you as well, amigo.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
    I'm withya!
    ***WAREMTAE***
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited November 2002
    Since I'm the only one sober around here....

    Bi-wiring is simply adding a second set of wires (or a special bi-wire cable) to your speakers and removing the metal straps that connect the binding posts together. Failure to do so will cause serious damage. (Check your manuals for a better/more technical explaination.)

    Some people feel that there is an increase in sound quality. Another one of those try it and see if it sounds good to you kinda things!
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • phuz
    phuz Posts: 2,372
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by Frank Z

    Bi-wiring is simply adding a second set of wires (or a special bi-wire cable) to your speakers and removing the metal straps that connect the binding posts together. Failure to do so will cause serious damage. (Check your manuals for a better/more technical explaination.)

    Yep. It looks kinda like this... :)

    deltron_jpw2.jpg

    In most cases, the top set of wires sends power to the top half of the spectrum (mids/highs) and the bottom set of wires sends power to the low end (subs, or drivers crossed over on the low end).

    I could be wrong, but I think the principle behind it is seperating the signal/power before it enters the crossover so the crossover has to do less work? *shrug* I dunno....
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  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by phuz
    I could be wrong, but I think the principle behind it is seperating the signal/power before it enters the crossover so the crossover has to do less work? *shrug* I dunno....

    Phuz crushed this answer............nice photo quality too! That is exactly the reason to bi-wire - to bypass part of the crossover and send a supposedly less processed or "purer" signal to each speaker.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen (emullen@svsound.com)
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited November 2002
    Yes,
    In a nutshell.Bi wirng is it's simplest form is just that 4 conductors from a single amp out.Speakr is hooked up like the pic.One pair top posts and the other pair bottom post.

    I have found bi wiring to make a great difference.Clear high's,punchier and tigher mid range and the bass seems more controled.I never heard it make the sound worse.
    It's a good technic for one looking for a good relatively cheap upgrade.(depends on what wire you buy to support cheap or affordable,bi wire cables can break the bank).
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited November 2002
    O troy......by the way...we can now get past the bi wire thing.........my speakers now are bi wirable by everyones standards...........ok?......Can we now agree on this??????
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2002
    Good for you Dan, we are all impressed. Now if you were to take your RT1000's and perform Ken's biwiring test side by side with the LSi's you would understand why we said you couldn't biwire them.

    BTW, I am curious about one thing though. Before you got your LSi's, it seemed that all you could do was rave about the Dynaudio's and B&K (allday). The search was over, that was the perfect setup. I'm curious what prompted the purchase of the LSi's? If I remember correctly, the demo or two that you had was pretty lackluster.....Don't get me wrong, I think it's cool that got them, I'm just wondering why.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2002
    Tiger,

    The principle behind it is this: In a two way design, at a certain point the crossover essentially crosses the signal over from the mid/bass side to the tweeter side. The theory with biwiring (biamping works on the same principle) is that you have a set of binding posts for each side allowing you to power them independently.

    Having said that, I think if it is offered as an option on your speakers, you should try it. How much actual benefit there is, is a subject to debate.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited November 2002
    Troy,
    I feel good about how I wired the rt1000p's right, wrong,ghetto,whatever term you want to call it...It was speaker level to both binding posts,I got a sonic tonal improvement and that was enough for me......I really don't want to open that can of worms again.....I'll just say it sounded better and that the goal of any upgrade isn't it.??????can we agree with at?I'll leave the TERM out of this to save another pissing match over wiring.

    The Question you asked about why I went Lsi over Dynaudio ...well there are alot of reasons......I will tell you a couple of them.Before I get started.....B&K is always a fine choice for alomst any system.they make wonerfull products and give you a ton for your money..........Rotel won my heart in sound quality only.I feel Rotel has a much cleaner more dynamic sound then B&K....Not to take anything away from B&K,I feel there pre amps smoke Rotels for inputs,features,etc......but they lack that ever last bit of purity I desire...I'm willing to sacrfice inputs and features for sonic purity........

    Now the Dynaudio and Lsi thing...........I went back and forth..yes you are correct with my demo's on Lsi.......the Dynaudio had Rotel runing it most of the time,B&K,and Mart levinston....then Pioneer Eltie vsx49tx......At Soundex where I used to work before I desided to return to Tweeter.The Lsi 15's had Yamaha rxv1,Pioneer Elite vsx47tx running them where I demo'd.The room sucked **** as well.But They did catch my attention when I started to run Lorenna Mckennitt.Man the female voice choked me up inside.......They moved me.....The dynaudio Audience 72's would be a perfect vs battle for the lsi 15's...the Audience 82's might have the last word in detail and bass responce.....close....The Lsi15's I desided to bring home for the ultimate demo ....after hearing them crap out my Denon avr3801,I went to the Stereo Exchange as I wanted to test Rotel on them as I have Installed Rotel so many times for Soundex and was WOWed everysingle time....Match made in heaven..........not at first......when I first hooked it up.....I said o **** what have I done...it sounds like hell,then the amp warmed up and look out...dude I was so Impressed with the sound,I just knew at that moment that this was what I was searching for.....This is the short version by the way.

    I wasn't looking for just 2 channel speaker but a home theater package......the Audience line doesn't offer a Bi poalr/DI polar type speaker, the Lsi 's do....and I so loved my fx/500's,they are on e bad **** speaker.I listened to the Lsi/fx's and they just blew me away.....god the Lsi line is good.......I'm completely got them in my SOLE...........I'm all about them.Even picky **** liv4fam listened to the Rotel/Lsi combo and said WOW/Damn there good.......he normally beats everything up, but he was hard pressed to do so.He even felt they destroyed his new Def Tech's and B&K setup,which we both agree is a fantastic sounding system.....
    I feel all you guys should one day own Lsi.....what a achivement from Polk........my hat is off and I'm kneeling on one knee.......
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited November 2002
    PUKE. Troy, why do you provoke this? Can you really even fight through reading this crap, or do you just love to watch him type? UG.

    ;)

    -R
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited November 2002
    Well Russ seems like you enjoy reading it.If I post.......you post.Puke huh.....don't side step the bowl.........
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited November 2002
    'when I first hooked it up.....I said o **** what have I done...it sounds like hell,then the amp warmed up and look out'

    That much difference, from 'hell' to 'look out' on a cold vs warm Rotel (ss)?

    'Even picky **** liv4fam listened to the Rotel/Lsi combo and said WOW/Damn there good.......he normally beats everything up, but he was hard pressed to do so'

    Well, thats just funny in and of itself, and I imagine is pretty much on-target...

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited November 2002
    Well that wasn't such a bad post Russ.......I don't see the humor in my post you quote,but if you get a laugh out of it,cool.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
    OK help me out here guys... Is Rotel a tube amp or something? I did not think so but what the hell do I know anyway. If there are no tubes then what needs warmed up? its solid state right... For me I figure the power supply caps take a few msec to charge and thats it???

    Confused is the HBomb
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2002
    No you aren't missing anything HBomb, it's a solid state amp. It must be some special cap that Rotel has. Either that or Dan had too much of that special tea....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited November 2002
    and the nieve speak's again...............so solid state amps need not to be warm to perform there best...........yeah I must be drinking some kind of special tea..........what the hell do I know anyways......
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
    I'm just saying as things warm up the noise floor of solid state devices will increase hence the reason for huge heat syncs and fans....
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,200
    edited November 2002
    Gee should I install it in a cold box???teach me I'm all eyes
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2002
    Originally posted by mantis
    and the nieve speak's again...............so solid state amps need not to be warm to perform there best...........yeah I must be drinking some kind of special tea..........what the hell do I know anyways......

    OK, so lay it out for me. Just what is it in a SS amp that needs to warm up? Do tell.......

    HKF
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • rlw
    rlw Posts: 231
    edited November 2002
    I have to agree with Mantis, to a degree.

    <choke, sob>

    I can definitely hear a difference in my sand amps after they've warmed up. It takes a couple of hours to get most of the way there. So, I leave 'em on 24x7 [unless we're expecting a lightning storm].

    Unfortunately, I can't explain it. A friend of mine, who builds high-end gear [Bob Crump, of CTC Builders and ParaSound], explains that on SS gear with multiple output transistors, the bias current on each one varies a bit until thermal stability is reached.

    I can't say that the sound goes from hell to heaven, or whatever, but there's an audible change.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2002
    I dunno, I've never listened for it to be honest but I will say I've never really honestly experienced it and certainly not to the extent where it would make a drastic change in sound quality.

    I'm not saying there isn't something to it but I'm a little skeptical.

    Hey, there is nothing wrong with agreeing with Dan, it just makes for good fun when you don't.

    HKF
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited November 2002
    mantis, I'm not being sarcastic in any way at all. It just seems counter intuitive to me for warmup time on solid state.

    Example, does a computer work faster after its been on for a while? I don't think so but would be the same analogy... would it not? you guys have a hell of a lot more experience than me and I'm just trying to figure this whole thing out.
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  • Steve@3dai
    Steve@3dai Posts: 983
    edited November 2002
    I think it's a matter of voltage regulation among the caps and such. More than likely there is a variation of voltage until the parts come to a "normal operating temp". Just like computer parts are tested at temperatures, they have a "normal operating temp" that they work better at (CPU is included, as if it gets too cold, things happen too slow... even though that's wayyyy down there).
    LSi 9/C/FX
    Arcam AVR-200
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  • STUFFMD
    STUFFMD Posts: 381
    edited November 2002
    Hey Tiger ,
    I know your relatively new to the forum, don't mind the fellas arguing and sniping, to most of us it is in fun...........One thing I thought I might mention is that you don't have to go out and spend a fortune on special cables to bi-wire, you can use just 2 sets of speaker wires to accomplish the relatively the same thing, and somthing else I am not seeing is that both cables will originate from the same posts on your amp. Good Luck
    Peace StuffMD
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