Competing Next Year

MacLeod

cam5860 wrote: »

ICEpower Amplifier Technology

ICEpower takes the amplified signal and compares it with the original input signal, compensating for any variance while it suppresses distortion. It also counteracts any imperfections from power supplies. The result: impressive quality audio! The bass is tight with less lag effect and the mids and highs are crisp and airy.

Well, at least you know Pioneer has a really good marketing department.

But not as good as my alltime favorite - Signal Cable's claims for their $60 "magic extension cords".

Unmatched frequency extension and detail retrieval as well as an improved soundstage and blacker background.

I personally think there is nothing better than superior detail retrieval but I prefer my backgrounds to be more a shade of blue.

1996blackmax

The info you posted is really just advertising.

Getting an amp that fits your needs, has solid build, and good specs is what it's about. Power is power.....

cam5860

If you don't believe there is a difference in power go buy you a jensen amp and compare it to your audison amp.

1996blackmax

I said quality amp there bud......I have owned Jensen, and it's not a quality amp. If you think they are, then you are sadly mistaken.

I guess you believe everything that manufacturers advertise though......


100 watts is 100 watts... if both amps have similar specs, and are quality products you are telling me that you can tell the difference?

MacLeod

Why would I do that? The Jensen will not be built nearly as well as the Audison. It will also probably have turn off pops out the wazoo.

Now Ill gladly take something like a beefy ole MTX Thunder and match it up against anything out there. Thats something thats built like a tank and will nearly double its rated power cleanly!

1996blackmax

I've had MTX Thunder amps before and they were little tanks. Nice quality amps right there.

exalted512

I think I'll stick with my huge, inefficient rockford fosagte amps...thatll run .5 ohm for daily driving

By the way, me and my boss were doing some more testing on his truck yesterday. We were running his amps at .2 ohms
-Cody

eloplayspolo

My Thunder Elites Made My Ears Ring When I Got Out Of The Car. Ears Ringing > Icecold Pioneer Technology Imo.

audiobliss

exalted512 wrote: »

I think I'll stick with my huge, inefficient rockford fosagte amps...thatll run .5 ohm for daily driving

By the way, me and my boss were doing some more testing on his truck yesterday. We were running his amps at .2 ohms
-Cody

That's awesome. What amps is he running?

MacLeod

That is great to hear! Im glad RF is making asswhoopin' amps again!

cam5860

I had a punch 45 amp one time. One of the best amps I have ever owned.

exalted512

audiobliss wrote: »

That's awesome. What amps is he running?

Hes sponsored by DB Drive.
-Cody

cam5860

So basically the point you all are trying to make is mtx and kicker amps sound the same because there high quality products. Or in other words you can't tell a difference in name brand amps. I don't buy it because I can tell a big difference in different brands of headunits.

MacLeod

The point we're trying to make isnt that there is no difference between brands of amp. We're saying that if you compare them equally (i.e. no bass boost, EQ's off, crossovers off, level matched and not clipping) there wont be an audible difference between amps or CD players for that matter.

Of course a more expensive amp will have better features such as a more accurate crossover or be totally noise free or giving you a lot more power than its rated at or being built like a tank - where a cheaper brand could have turn on/off pops, make less than its rated power making it clip sooner, have noisy or inaccurate crossovers or bass boost and so on. Those are the differences in amps and the reason you should buy quality gear. Not because they have a distinct sound.

There have been double blind A/B tests done for decades and NOT ONCE has anybody ever proven they can tell a difference between Brand X and Brand Y amp.

Think about it like this - why would you want to put a component in your signal path that CHANGED the sound? Wouldnt you want a completely transparent reproduction? So if a $300 MTX amp can reproduce the input signal completely transparent (ruler flat from 20-20 KHz) then how could a $1000 Audison amp reproduce it MORE transparent?

cam5860

Yeah I see what your trying to say there. But I swear I can hear a difference in my kenwood excelon amp and my pioneer premier amp. My tweeters are alot brighter and sharper with my kenwood amp. Where as with the pioneer the vocals are much cleaner with a flat more natural sound.

cam5860

Oh yeah by the way I got my pioneer 880 installed tonight and let me say i'm stunned at how damn good this sucker sounds. It blows my kenwood excelon away. I have never owned a deck thats sounds this clean and I have owned every brand there is. I'm going to get my components installed tomorrow. Which now i'm like a little kid when it comes to speakers and stuff. I get so excited I got my components right beside my bed so I can look at them and admire them every chance I get. I'm sick to this **** though. Anything new I get to install puts me on a major high. Me getting new car audio stuff makes me as happy as someone buying a new car.

1996blackmax

cam5860 wrote: »

So basically the point you all are trying to make is mtx and kicker amps sound the same because there high quality products. Or in other words you can't tell a difference in name brand amps. I don't buy it because I can tell a big difference in different brands of headunits.

You are comparing apples to oranges......


You started with amps, and then did not answer my question from two days ago. Now you say you don't buy it because HU's sound different to you.



I actually believe that you can tell a difference between HU's. The thing is that it's with HU's that are in a whole other league than what you and I currently have. Things like the Pioneer P9 setup, Sony CDX-90, Alpine CDA-7949/PXA-H600 and other high end HU's. All these units were over $1000, with the Alpine setup coming in at $1500, Sony at $1200, and the Pioneer at around $2000. The differences are subtle, but they are there. With everything set flat you could tell the difference when going from one of these setups to something like what you and I currently have. My CDA-7998, while a very nice HU was a downgrade SQ-wise when compared to my 7949/H600 combo. These units that I mentioned all had higher quality parts as well as four 20bit Burr Brown DAC's for the Sony and Alpine.


Link to Sony's CDX-90

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZpQXfq4DxCU/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?I=158CDXC90&search=sony+CDXC90


Look at the price here at the bottom of the page, and keep in mind this was from quite a little while ago.

http://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?i=158CDXC90&search=sony+CDXC90&tp=5684&tab=other_items





Pioneer P9 combo..


http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069882_34724,00.html

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/product/details/0,,2076_310069882_35384,00.html



Some archived stuff from the processor that went with the CDA-7949. Many of the links are broken, but some still work.

http://web.archive.org/web/19990424075822/www.alpine.com.au/promo/tpsound.html

Thom

I saw that C90 on Crutchfield's page and wondered how they could still have any of those. Then I saw the out of stock. Haha. My buddy had one of those many years ago. When he wrecked his car I got it from him but found that I hated the display. Which is a pretty important thing when in a car. I've still got my CDX- C900, the bad **** unit from before that. I think that went for $900 retail back in '97 or '98. The "best" CD player I ever had was the Denon Z1. I liked it a lot, but can't honestly say that I heard any differences between any of them. Sure, if the voltage out is different that'll make a big difference. But I guess when comparing nice to nice...

Now I've got the Alpine X001 running my ipod and that sounds great. I don't miss the days of CD/ MD changers...

Aimen RG

power amps are supposed to be transparent
HU is a pre amp/processor. it has alot more liberty to sound different than power amps.

MacLeod

I have to admit it would be awful nice to have an Ipod source and have 3000 songs at your finger tips. But I usually resist the latest trends. I held on to cassette tapes as long as I could and didnt give in and get my first CD player til 1992. Im sure Ill do the same thing with CD's and resist getting an MP3 source for as long as I can.

eloplayspolo

6500+ songs = just dumb to bring aroudn with u in a car, ipod is my savior

1996blackmax

Aimen RG wrote: »

power amps are supposed to be transparent

Exactly....


I do enjoy the flexibility the new units provide when it comes to listening to the newer music sources. Eventhough I have the ability to use an i-Pod, I mostly listen to cd's. I do like having the i-Pod and MP3/WMA encoded cd's when going on trips/long drives. Having to mess around with cd's while traveling at highway speeds is not something I do not want to do.

If my previous setup (CDA-7949/PXA-H600) could read CD-R's without a problem, it would still be in my car. I would not mind having to use CD's and a changer. The processor actually would also take the signal from the Alpine changer in the digital domain through the fiberoptic connection. This setup sounded better than any unit I've had from Alpine, Eclipse, and Pioneer since that time... and I've gone after higher gear from each of those companies.

cam5860

I'm catching hell trying to get these components installed. They are oversized 6 3/4 and the magnet is almost as wide as the speaker. I had to cut my doors out some on one side so they would drop in then my speaker brackets were only 6 1/2 so I have been trying to sand them down so I can mount them in the brackets. Never had this much trouble installing a component set. As deep as the momo's are I never had to cut my doors out for them to drop in.

1996blackmax

Why not make MDF mounts?

black magic

^ what he said. They also work better than plastic since they're sturdy.

cam5860

If I make a mdf spacer the speaker will stick out to far from the door panel.

eloplayspolo

do a combo of both, mount the speaker on the door pannel, and cut away what u need to from the door, find that distance, make an mdf spacer for that distance inbetween and vwalla!

MacLeod

You can buy MDF in thickness ranging from 1/4" up to 1". You should be able to find the right size to fit.

cam5860

well I just got in! I finished them up tonight, even though they were a ****. I have not had much time to listen to them but from what I heard so far I'm impressed at the smoothness of the midbass. I have a few pics from when I was installing the mids.

exalted512

Looks good, but I'd highly suggest getting rid of the stock plastic baffle and invest in some MDF rings.
-Cody