SDA 2B crossover upgrades

MillerLiteScott
MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
edited December 2007 in Vintage Speakers
UPS just arrived with a box for me instead of my wife.

This is what he brought less the RDO-198's which came last week.
I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited September 2007
    Woo hoo! Now the fun begins!
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited September 2007
    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    UPS just arrived with a box for me instead of my wife.

    This is what he brought less the RDO-198's which came last week.

    RD0198-1 :confused: . The 2B's should take RD0194-1.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited September 2007
    heiney9 wrote: »
    RD0198-1 :confused: . The 2B's should take RD0194-1.

    That's true. Isn't it only the SL3000's that the RD0-198's replaced?
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited September 2007
    avguytx wrote: »
    That's true. Isn't it only the SL3000's that the RD0-198's replaced?

    SL2500 and SL3000 = RD0198-1
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited September 2007
    I have been instructed by a Guru. So I am confident the 198's are the proper tweeter for this upgrade.
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited September 2007
    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    I have been instructed by a Guru. So I am confident the 198's are the proper tweeter for this upgrade.

    So I take it you're not doing a straight component for component swap, but some upgrading as well. ;). If it's the guru I'm thinking of you are in good hands :)

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • ka7niq
    ka7niq Posts: 577
    edited September 2007
    H9, use caution.
    He MAY be under the influence of a Dark Lord.
    Strong is the dark side of the force, and it is easy to go down that path and wind up with Solens, LOL
    He MUST not give in to his anger when he finds out what a REAL Cap costs, for anger leads to the dark side.
    JUST KIDDING, of course.
    He is in GREAT hands!
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited September 2007
    heiney9 wrote: »
    RD0198-1 :confused: . The 2B's should take RD0194-1.

    The 1987 and 1989 model SDA 2B, like the 1987 and 1989 model SDA CRS+, can be modified to use the RD0198-1 silk dome tweeter. The 1987 and 1989 versions of the SDA CRS+ and SDA 2B all use the same crossover.

    Polk was planning a "TL" version of the SDA CRS+ that would use the SL3000 trilaminate tweeter, but the SDA series was discontinued before it went into production. The modification consists of only adding a 5.8 uF capacitor in parallel with the 2.7 ohm resistor in the tweeter circuit. The schematic for this modification is posted with the rest of the SDA schematics on the forum.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,204
    edited September 2007
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    The 1987 and 1989 model SDA 2B, like the 1987 and 1989 model SDA CRS+, can be modified to use the RD0198-1 silk dome tweeter. The 1987 and 1989 versions of the SDA CRS+ and SDA 2B all use the same crossover.

    Polk was planning a "TL" version of the SDA CRS+ that would use the SL3000 trilaminate tweeter, but the SDA series was discontinued before it went into production. The modification consists of only adding a 5.8 uF capacitor in parallel with the 2.7 ohm resistor in the tweeter circuit. The schematic for this modification is posted with the rest of the SDA schematics on the forum.

    So that would be the 4.1TL version that Jesse built. I guess that point slipped by me in the compendium but upon furthur thinking I did read that the 2B used ther same x-over.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,734
    edited September 2007
    Should be fun to hear the TL upgrade on the 2B's.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited September 2007
    It should be fun to hear the 2B's with this mod. I decided to mod these speakers into the best state I could because the 2B's seem to be the right size for my room. I plan on holding on to them for a while. Now I have to find the right amp for them.

    Scott
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • strider
    strider Posts: 2,568
    edited September 2007
    Nice! Can I schedule a listening session now?:D
    Wristwatch--->Crisco
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited September 2007
    Ben,

    I got to get them put together and burn everything in. But you are certainly welcome to come over and we will put an ear on them.

    Scott
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited September 2007
    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    Ben,

    I got to get them put together and burn everything in. But you are certainly welcome to come over and we will put an ear on them.

    Scott

    Ooo Ooo hurry Scott.. i want to read about your findings once the upgrade is complete on your SDA 2B's. I have a pair too.

    So is the RD0-198 much different or better than the RD0-194? I'm very pleased with my RD0-194's and so far i don't have any plans to upgrade the crossovers.. they sound really too to me now that I have a quality amp. Now just need a better source player. ;)
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited September 2007
    I had the RDO 194's in them for about 5 months and really like the sound but my Guru said that the RDO 198's are the real deal and take the speakers to another level, especially in vocal reproduction. I am in the process of saving for a better amp but I am not sure which direction to go in, Tubes or SS. I am a tube fan but can only afford in the 60 watt range but if I go SS I would probably have to upgrade to a tube pre. I find myself in a conundrum.

    Scott
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • Disc Jockey
    Disc Jockey Posts: 1,013
    edited September 2007
    Is it possible to do this for 2A's also? Inquiring minds want to know. If so, I will hold off on ordering new tweets. If not, I'm ordering the 194's first thing Monday. As much as I like these speakers, those 2000's are a tad ummm abrasive. Is there that much difference between the 194 and 98?
    "The secret of happiness is freedom. The secret of freedom is courage." Thucydides
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  • ka7niq
    ka7niq Posts: 577
    edited September 2007
    Anyone know if the SRS 2's can be modified to use the RDO 198 ?
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited September 2007
    What's supposed to be the major difference in doing so? Aren't they a different impedance, too? I'm listening to some Tanya Tucker on my SRS2's with the 194's and they sound darn nice. They are getting closer to being broken in and I don't know if I'm ready to go for another 4 tweeters! :D
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited September 2007
    you guys are taking it to a new level,,keep us posted.:)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • ka7niq
    ka7niq Posts: 577
    edited September 2007
    avguytx wrote: »
    What's supposed to be the major difference in doing so? Aren't they a different impedance, too? I'm listening to some Tanya Tucker on my SRS2's with the 194's and they sound darn nice. They are getting closer to being broken in and I don't know if I'm ready to go for another 4 tweeters! :D
    Me either, I like my RDO 194's.
    As I understand it, the sl 3000 is much better then an sl 2000 ?
    But, I would think the new RDO 198 - SL 3000 replacement is basically the same tweeter as the RDO 194, with electrical characteristics to match the SL 3000 ?
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  • avguytx
    avguytx Posts: 1,628
    edited September 2007
    That's what I would think, too. When I got my SDA 1C's, they had been "upgraded" by the dealer from SL2000's to the SL3000's and had a 7.5ohm resistor inline on them. They sounded ok but I liked the SL2000's better in them.
    Richard? Who's your favorite Little Rascal? Alfalfa? Or is it........................Spanky?.................................Sinner.
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  • ka7niq
    ka7niq Posts: 577
    edited September 2007
    avguytx wrote: »
    That's what I would think, too. When I got my SDA 1C's, they had been "upgraded" by the dealer from SL2000's to the SL3000's and had a 7.5ohm resistor inline on them. They sounded ok but I liked the SL2000's better in them.
    My RDO 194's have been playing "Telstar" for almost 3 straight days, LOL
    They are warming right up!
    Many do not realize how LITTLE is up at 2 to 3 K, certainly NOT voices.

    Telstar has a synthysizer, it really works the tweeters.

    I also put an eq in there with bands from 750 to 3K cranked up pretty good.

    This "stretches" the tweeter suspension.

    There are faster ways to do this, but NOT with 4 tweeters.

    The RDO 194 is a FAR better tweeter then the SL 2000, smoother, and more extended too.

    It has a very smooth lower range, getting even better as it stretches and loosens up.

    WHY they did not go to a replacement metal dome is beyond me ?

    There ARE really good, inexpensive metal tweeters, like the 14 dollar Vifa used in Vandersteen and some Wilsons.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited September 2007
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    The 1987 and 1989 model SDA 2B, like the 1987 and 1989 model SDA CRS+, can be modified to use the RD0198-1 silk dome tweeter. The 1987 and 1989 versions of the SDA CRS+ and SDA 2B all use the same crossover.
    Disc Jockey wrote: »
    Is it possible to do this for 2A's also? Inquiring minds want to know.
    ka7niq wrote: »
    Anyone know if the SRS 2's can be modified to use the RDO 198 ?

    Let's not get carried away.

    The TL mod was only specified for the 1989 version CRS+. However, it can be applied to the 1987 CRS+ and 1987/1989 SDA 2B. While the 4 speakers do use the same crossover circuit, the driver complement is slightly different in the 1989 CRS+ in that it uses 6510 stereo drivers.

    If you are interested in using the SL3000 or RD0198-1 tweeters with any other SDA's, an email to Polk's customer service department requesting modification advice would be a good idea.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited September 2007
    ka7niq wrote: »

    There ARE really good, inexpensive metal tweeters, like the 14 dollar Vifa used in Vandersteen and some Wilsons.
    Well I bet Mr Vandersteen would dispute the fact that he is using the stock Vifa.It does appear to be a Vifa D25 variant but it most likely has been customized to Vandersteen specs.

    What model does Wilson use a Vifa in? I have only seen Wilsons sporting Focal inverted metal domes.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • Disc Jockey
    Disc Jockey Posts: 1,013
    edited September 2007
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Let's not get carried away.

    I'll get carried away if I darn well feel like it. Don't be stepping on my constitutionally granted right for excess. :) I've actually got enough on my plate right now that I'm going to have trouble just upgrading the existing crossover let alone doing any mods.

    I'm interested to see the diff between the the rdo's. The sl3000, I don't think, was not that bad of a tweeter. I can see the improvement btwn sl3000 to rdo being smaller than the one from sl1000/sl2000 to rdo
    "The secret of happiness is freedom. The secret of freedom is courage." Thucydides
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  • ka7niq
    ka7niq Posts: 577
    edited September 2007
    GV#27 wrote: »
    Well I bet Mr Vandersteen would dispute the fact that he is using the stock Vifa.It does appear to be a Vifa D25 variant but it most likely has been customized to Vandersteen specs.

    What model does Wilson use a Vifa in? I have only seen Wilsons sporting Focal inverted metal domes.
    You are right, Wilson uses the Focal, NOT the Vifa.
    But the Vifa D 25 is a good tweeter, at least the early ones were.

    Whether Vandersteen uses a stock one or not ONLY he knows.
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  • Systems
    Systems Posts: 14,873
    edited September 2007
    ka7niq wrote: »
    But the Vifa D 25 is a good tweeter, at least the early ones were.
    Yes it is and it was from the early 90's until recently one of the most widely used tweeters in designs from the UK and North America.
    Testing
    Testing
    Testing
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  • MillerLiteScott
    MillerLiteScott Posts: 2,561
    edited October 2007
    I just got back from my journey to the Mars Hotel with my newly upgraded 2B xovers. After watching Jesse do the first xover I was actually able to do the second one myself. It is/was actually a fun little project. Jesse is a great guy and has some awesome equipment. I am actually looking forward to redoing the xovers on my RTA 11t's in the near future.

    I installed the xovers and put my 2B's face to face with a moving blanket over them and a Yamaha 2 channel receiver and old JVC cd player playing some Bob Marley on them to burn them in for the next few days.

    Again many thanks to Jesse for his help and expertise in this project.

    Scott
    I like speakers that are bigger than a small refrigerator but smaller than a big refrigerator:D
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  • BaggedLancer
    BaggedLancer Posts: 6,371
    edited October 2007
    MillerLiteScott wrote: »
    I just got back from my journey to the Mars Hotel with my newly upgraded 2B xovers. After watching Jesse do the first xover I was actually able to do the second one myself. It is/was actually a fun little project. Jesse is a great guy and has some awesome equipment. I am actually looking forward to redoing the xovers on my RTA 11t's in the near future.

    I installed the xovers and put my 2B's face to face with a moving blanket over them and a Yamaha 2 channel receiver and old JVC cd player playing some Bob Marley on them to burn them in for the next few days.

    Again many thanks to Jesse for his help and expertise in this project.

    Scott


    Wow, those look great. Can't wait to hear what your review of all the work is. I'm going to keep my eye out for a newer pair of SDA's, glad the others sold.
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited October 2007
    good work guys.. looks real nice and clean.

    I have been really enjoying my 2B's as well lately. I moved some old gear out that was just taking up space and cleaned up the whole look of my 2 ch rig. I can't imagine my 2B's ever sounding any better.. so for now.. i'm not at this point going to upgrade my X-0vers. They sound to dang good.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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