are bridged amps common ground?

ka7niq

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

The fans on the Crown are very quiet like your Ashly. Maybe we should start our own "fan" club for owners of amps with fans. cheers

The mighty Crown K1 and K2 amps are convection cooled
BTW, the DVAudio amps can be had on Ebay for under 200 dollars shipped!
They do 380 wpc into 8 ohms, about 600 into 4.
My tech measured this power just before clipping.

The amp design is quite sophisticated actually, it is called a current mirror.
It sounded better then my Adcom 585 on the SRS 2's, so I traded the Adcom 585 in on my SpeakerLab SK Horns.
Just gotta figure a way to quiet that dam fan down

The Adcom 585 is a high current, well known "powerhouse".
But it just can't match the power of the DVAudio amp, and sonically it is about a wash between the two amps.

The DVAudio has a big electrolytic input cap in it.
This MUST go, or at least get changed to a good sounding electrolytic like an Elna, Blackgate, or a Panasonic.
Better yet, some kind of film, if it will fit.

I bet with this change it will be awesome, plus it is a Brand New amp, no worries about replacing leaking caps ?

I bought the Adcom off Ebay, it waas almost DOA.
Leaking caps on input board, my tech saved it.

Selller was cool, kicked me back money for repair

Let me check Ebay, see if there are any more of these monsters for sale ?
Yes, he does http://cgi.ebay.com/3800-Watt-Professional-DJ-Power-Powered-Amplifier-Amp_W0QQitemZ200159329728QQihZ010QQcategoryZ23787QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They are called GVDAudio, my bad.

Look at some of the other stuff for sale ?
Nice electroic crossover, if I didn't already have a Rane AC 23 I might be down for one.

My best friend, who also owns VMPS RM 40's is using my other GVDAudio 6500 amp to drive his RM 40's right now.
He has Audire Noble Monoblocks, my old amps I sold him.
He has been having a problem with one Monoblock.

He also has a big Sunfire Load Invariant.
He runs the Sunfire on the RM 40 woofers, and the monolocks on the ribbons.

He also thinks the amp is good.

Be warned!

It was VERY HARSH on My JBL L 7's, but mellow and laid back on my B&W 801`'s.
Sounds great on the SRS 2's.

Personally, I did not care for it a lot on my RM 40's, the Luxman M 117 sounds better ion them.

BTW, F1NIT is corerect about a fan, they do induce vibration, BEST not to have em, but whwere else can you get 380 wpc into 8 ohms under 200 bucks ?

treitz3

You are missing the point. It's not about the watts.
Like I said, where's the BEEF?

TroyD

I fail to see why people get all wrapped around the notion that you have to have a gazillion watts to run a pair of SDA's. They aren't terribly demanding on an amp at any rate. In most applications, if you have 50wpc with a couple db headroom, a pair of 1.2tls will run you out of a room. Now, if you listen to a lot of pipe organs or have, say, a Mahler fetish....I could MAYBE see your point. Rock music? 98% is processed and compressed ad naseum. Pffffft.

If you think the Crown amps are the shiznit, good on you. There are MUCH better amps out there, IMO. Pro audio amps, generally speaking have little in the way of detail and finese but if your primary goal is max. volume (ie quantity over quality) rock on.

A wise man once said....if the first watt sucks, why continue?

BDT

michaeljhsda2

To F1 nut and everyone else: The amp does produce clean power and high headroom is a good thing. Have you ever actually listened to this amp? Instead of reading about how these types of amplifiers sound, why don't you actually listen to the amp then you will have learned something.

TroyD

I've heard enough pro amps to know that I wouldn't use on for much more than a doorstop. If you dig it, no sweat, enjoy and have fun.

I have my opinions based on what I've heard. YMMV.

BDT

michaeljhsda2

To KA7niq: Thanks for the info. F1Nut has never actually listened to this amp before so he should not comment on it until he has done so.

TroyD

I can speak for F1 in that he's heard enough gear to make an intelligent assesment.

BDT

michaeljhsda2

Troy D, the amp is rated 380 wpc, not a gazillion.

michaeljhsda2

I want to hear it from F1Nut himself that he has listened to this amp

michaeljhsda2

So you are agreeing with him because HE heard these types of amps before? You mean you haven't listened to an amp such as this? Interesting.

treitz3

////\\\\\/////.

Much to learn little one, much to learn.

michaeljhsda2

treitz3 Resorting to personal attacks? You are losing focus on what this forum is about.

heiney9

Those that don't know, don't know they don't know. Pro amps are for amateur's, but rock on if it floats your boat.

TroyD

They make great boat anchors and door stops. I have heard them as I said, if you like it, great. No need to get your **** in a wringer but you aren't likely to change my opinion.

BDT

THEJERMON

Hello everyone! First time in here as a new member. I am a proud owner of a great pair of SDA2's. I have listened to these Polks and I have listened to them with a Crown XLS602 amp. Sounds fantastic to me. I love it.
Good Listening Everyone!

ka7niq

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

To KA7niq: Thanks for the info. F1Nut has never actually listened to this amp before so he should not comment on it until he has done so.

I TRY to be objective about things.
I have many amps/speakers here to compare things against.
I have been into audio for some time, and "knew" that all pro amps sucked.
That is, until I tried some of them.
Yes,. some do suck, but then so do some "high end" amps too.
I do not feel there is "one best amp" for every speaker.

michaeljhsda2

I am not trying to change anyone's opinion. My SDA SRS 1.2 TL's sound excellent with the amp that I am using. If they didn't, I would use a different amplifier. Repeat. My system sounds excellent. The truth is in the listening. Peace out.

VR3

Crown amps sound like ****...

Great for live sound and subwoofers though.

FWIW - I sell the XLS and XTi series everyday

michaeljhsda2

Thanks for the post ka7niq.

ka7niq

THEJERMON wrote: »

Hello everyone! First time in here as a new member. I am a proud owner of a great pair of SDA2's. I have listened to these Polks and I have listened to them with a Crown XLS602 amp. Sounds fantastic to me. I love it.
Good Listening Everyone!

Welcome

heiney9

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

I am not trying to change anyone's opinion. My SDA SRS 1.2 TL's sound excellent with the amp that I am using. If they didn't, I would use a different amplifier. Repeat. My system sounds excellent. The truth is in the listening. Peace out.

Good for you, enjoying the music is what it's all about. But let's flip the coin here for a minute. How many truely mid to high end amps ahev you heard thru the SDA's. If that number is few to none then you don't have a clue what you might be missing. So let's be rational here and think that perhaps some of the advice/discussion on this board, especially from seasoned audio vet's, just might have some merit.

All most of us are saying is you could do a lot better if excellent sound is your goal.

H9

F1nut

That particular amp, no. Pro amps, plenty. They are what they are and they are not high fidelity. So, what other amps have you listened to?

ka7niq

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

To KA7niq: Thanks for the info. F1Nut has never actually listened to this amp before so he should not comment on it until he has done so.

I find my experiences to sometimes be in conflict with F1NUT and Troy D's.
It's all good.
This is just a hobby to me, one of many.
I have some "semi rare" amps in house of known good quality and sonics.
And I like them too.
I also like paying under 200 bucks for a brand new super powerful amp that sounds decent.
DOES the pro sound amp sound like my Moscode 600 or Luxman M 117 ?
No, it does not.

But, my Adcom 585 is no longer in house

Both the Moscode 600 and the Luxman were designed to sound tube like.
in fact, the Moscode 600 is a tube/mosfet hybrid with a tube input board with tube regulators.
Tubes regulating Tubes.
The Luxman M 117 is a cult amp, much loved by some on the Klipsch board.
It was designed to sound like a tube amp.

These are the amps I use on "thin" sounding speakers.

The Ashly FET 500's have the OLD can type Mosfets in them.
Their sound is in between the Moscode 600 and Luxman M 117 and the Adcom 585 and the Gvd audio amp.

They have an "old school Mosfet sound", like the older B&K amps do, with a lot of power.

The Gvd audio amp is a transparent amp with little sonic coloration of it's own, more like the Adcom 585.
With the exception of how it sounded on the JBL L 7's, it has proven to have very little sonic "character" of it's own.

You might not want to use the Gvd audio amp on Thiels or Triangles for instance, because some have a thin sound already.
But the SRS 2's have IMHO a "thick sound", thus the cool, powerful, transparent character of the Gvd audio amp works well with them.

The Luxman M 117 is way too warm for them, and I find that combination a little too syrupy for my tastes.

Now, on the JBL L 7's, the Luxman M 117 reigns supreme.

Same on the Corner horns, they love the warmth and clean first watt of the Luxman M 117.


On the B&W 801's, the Moscode 600 is probably my favorite because with old Mullards in it, it is very 3 dimensional.
This 3 dimensionality, combined with the 801's disappearing act can be addictive.

The bottom line ?
If YOU are happy with what you have, then you are happy.
I would love to get a Crown Macrotech in my house.
DB Keele an ex JBL/Altec engineer and reviewer for Audio Magazine used 801's and a Crown as his reference.
I know people who have dumped big Krells and Rowlands for the big Crown Macrotech, never looked back either.

F1nut

I find my experiences to sometimes be in conflict with F1NUT and Troy D's.

Understatement of the year.

TroyD

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

Troy D, the amp is rated 380 wpc, not a gazillion.

So it's 3db louder than an amp that is 190wpc. Big deal. The point is, a pair of 1.2tl's will never require that sort of power.

Lastly, yeah, I'll grant you that I haven't heard YOUR amp. I will also say that I don't need to give the sniff test to every single **** to know that **** stinks.

BDT

treitz3

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

treitz3 Resorting to personal attacks? You are losing focus on what this forum is about.

No. The focus was lost when me and some other very wise folks tried to hand out what they have experienced and you blab about a pro amp that may sound good to you....I'm sorry excellent, but we were trying to relay to you that you can achieve better with amps that are geared toward fidelity, and not blaring speakers. I've heard a set of 4 Crown amp(s) [as well as many others in many venues] in a bar, hooked up to those blaring speakers and all I could think about is going home and listening to sound that wasn't annoying. Not saying it was the amp, not saying it was the speakers, just saying what I experienced.

That said, when I asked where is the beef, I was not referring to wattage. I was referring to current. The focus of this thread is bridged amps and common ground. My point was that if you bridge, you lose the beef. You gain greatly on wattage but lose quite a bit of punch [as well as added distortion] because bridging takes the beef and swallows it whole. That's my experience.

Like I said, you have much to learn. Try taking some of the knowledge available here and utilizing it instead of trying to change our minds. Your ears just might appreciate it.

Have you tried any other amp in your rig?

ka7niq

treitz3 wrote: »

That said, when I asked where is the beef, I was not referring to wattage. I was referring to current. The focus of this thread is bridged amps and common ground. My point was that if you bridge, you lose the beef. You gain greatly on wattage but lose quite a bit of punch [as well as added distortion] because bridging takes the beef and swallows it whole. That's my experience.
QUOTE]
Might want to read this ?
A high current amplifier is a high power amplifier, a high power amplifier is a high current amplifier.
There are many examples of this, but this one is from Atmosphere, makers of OTL Tube amps.

Voltage vs. Current Amplifiers
This leads directly to our second myth about current vs. voltage amps, usually the myth of transistor vs. tubes (tubes being the 'voltage' amps). Ohm's law is still around to help us out. The way this argument is usually heard goes something like this (and sounds a lot like the previous myth): "This amp has lots of current and is good for low impedance speakers..." or "...that amp has lots of voltage and is better for electrostatics".

Again, the power formula saves us. Let's look at some easy examples. Let's start with a common load impedance, four ohms and drive it with a lot of power, say four hundred watts. Now if the above statement is true, a four hundred watt transistor amp will do better than a four hundred watt tube amp, right? With a leading question like that, obviously not. The power formula tells us that 400 watts is just that, tube or transistor not withstanding. But let's look at the actual numbers for a second. By working with Ohm's law and the power formula, we can derive the following (simple) equation: Power = Current squared times Resistance. Plugging in the values we get 400 = current squared times 4. The current is 10 amps. That's all. Suppose an 8 Ohm speaker. The current is roughly 7.071 amps. If the amp produces the power it must produce the current, if the amp produces the current it must produce the power. This fact is inescapable, but it is amazing how much misinformation is spread in its ignorance.

Any Questions ?

ka7niq

michaeljhsda2 wrote: »

To Treitz3...I listen to rock and roll so there are no quiet passages. Where's the beef? It's 380 watts of clean power. My system sounds excellent with the Crown XLS 602 amplifier. I am sitting 15 feet away from the amp and you can't hear the fans between songs. Have you ever listened to any Crown amps before? Crown amps are used in all venues, both big and small. If you've ever been to a concert, chances are you were listening to the music powered by Crown amplifiers. If the amps were just throwing out high voltage garbage instead of clean undistorted power, you probably would have left the event, demanding your money back.

The BEEF is in your Crown, it IS a High Current Amplifier.
My Ashly FET 500's are very high current amplifiers, as is any high powered stereo amplifier that doubles it's power as the load impedance is cut in half.
The Ashly FET 500 will easily do 250 into 8, 500 into 4, and 700 into 2 ohms.
Really high current matters most into a really low impedance load, like 2 ohms.
Driving 8 or 4 ohms is pretty much a cake walk for most decent amps.

Some Krell amps for example have massive power supplies, capable of driving 1 ohm.
They may start out at 100wpc into 8 ohms, 200 into 4, 400 into 2 and almost 800 into 1 ohm.

This is textbook power supply performance, but unless you have 2 ohm speakers, it really is not necessary.

Other so called high current amps are actually amps with substantial peak power designed into them.
The little NAD integrated was one of these.
Though only rated at 50 wpc, it could easily put out 150 wpc when called upon to do so.
The ultimate expression of this type of amp was the old Proton amp, if anyone recalls it ?

It has 6 freaking DB of headroom into 8 ohms!

So, in summary, it can be safe to say a powerful amp into 8 ohms is also a high current amp into 8 ohms.
And, a powerful amp into 4 ohms is a high current amp into 4 ohms.

Watts is watts, and high power cannot exist w/o high current, UNLESS it has silver litz wire farted on by Snake Oil Sam :eek:
This of course, changes the laws of Physics :rolleyes:

VR3

Let me end this entire argument...

I own the Crown XTi series (the series above the XLS)

I also own an Odyssey Khartago, and in the past have owned Adcom GFA 535, 545 (series II as well) and a Soundcraftsmen PCR800, and a B&K ST 125.2 -- also have experience with 80's Yamaha amplifiers, Soundcraftsmen Class H, and Pass Labs X600 Mono blocks...

If I had to list in order, the three worst sounding amps I've heard/owned --

1) Crown XTi1000
2) Soundcraftsmen Class H
3) Soundcraftsmen PCR800

The Crown is a HORRIBLE sounding amp for fidelity, great for loudness...

If you want loud, you have found your calling...

But you definitely wont get much else...

And I work around the XLS series all day -- NOTHING special there either.

Stop trying to prove to us they are the end all be all of cheap power.

I'd take the Adcom GFA-535 (60 watts 8 ohms) and the 545 (100 watts 8 ohms) -- now THOSE are great amps that dont cost alot of $$$

heiney9

ka7niq wrote: »

The BEEF is in your Crown, it IS a High Current Amplifier.
My Ashly FET 500's are very high current amplifiers, as is any high powered stereo amplifier that doubles it's power as the load impedance is cut in half.
The Ashly FET 500 will easily do 250 into 8, 500 into 4, and 700 into 2 ohms.
Really high current matters most into a really low impedance load, like 2 ohms.
Driving 8 or 4 ohms is pretty much a cake walk for most decent amps.

Some Krell amps for example have massive power supplies, capable of driving 1 ohm.
They may start out at 100wpc into 8 ohms, 200 into 4, 400 into 2 and almost 800 into 1 ohm.

This is textbook power supply performance, but unless you have 2 ohm speakers, it really is not necessary.

Other so called high current amps are actually amps with substantial peak power designed into them.
The little NAD integrated was one of these.
Though only rated at 50 wpc, it could easily put out 150 wpc when called upon to do so.
The ultimate expression of this type of amp was the old Proton amp, if anyone recalls it ?

It has 6 freaking DB of headroom into 8 ohms!

So, in summary, it can be safe to say a powerful amp into 8 ohms is also a high current amp into 8 ohms.
And, a powerful amp into 4 ohms is a high current amp into 4 ohms.

Watts is watts, and high power cannot exist w/o high current, UNLESS it has silver litz wire farted on by Snake Oil Sam :eek:
This of course, changes the laws of Physics :rolleyes:

Feel better now that your rant is over..............what would we do w/o you :rolleyes: :rolleyes: .

Pro amps still blow!