Target goes blu...

BIZILL

Silverti wrote: »

HD-DVD is dead

Sony vs Toshiba is all that one needs to say.

w/o googling all members of each format, i can assure you, it's more than 'sony vs toshiba'...;)

cheddar

BIZILL wrote: »

all that i've read points to the fact that sony paid for that 'end cap'.

If it's just an endcap then it will be no different than any endcap sony or toshiba buy at Bestbuy or Circuit City. But if it's the only HD player they want an endcap for or they choose to only sell the sony player at their B&M store, then it will have an effect on everyone who stops in weekly to get toothpaste or whatever at Target. I guess we'll have to wait and see if any HD-DVD players are featured too. Don't want to overstate it, but the article seems to make it sound like more than just an endcap buy.

Target would not say why it decided to sell only Blu-ray players in stores. Sony is paying a fee to have its products featured in the end-of-aisle display, called an endcap, although Sony executives said the retailer contacted them about the decision.

PoLk FaN

BIZILL wrote: »

all that i've read points to the fact that sony paid for that 'end cap'.

I'am sure they did, I work in retail and if you want your stuff to have a big display its going to $$$$$ some big money.
one point arizona tea to have that big display of tea $$$$ I have seen some company buy the grocery manager a motorcycle just to have there product up front.

BIZILL

cheddar wrote: »

If it's just an endcap then it will be no different than any endcap sony or toshiba buy at Bestbuy or Circuit City. But if it's the only HD player they want an endcap for or they choose to only sell the sony player at their B&M store, then it will have an effect on everyone who stops in weekly to get toothpaste or whatever at Target. I guess we'll have to wait and see if any HD-DVD players are featured too. Don't want to overstate it, but the article seems to make it sound like more than just an endcap buy.

Target would not say why it decided to sell only Blu-ray players in stores. Sony is paying a fee to have its products featured in the end-of-aisle display, called an endcap, although Sony executives said the retailer contacted them about the decision.

from forbes.com

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/25/ap3952696.html

also...

daveyg2

Both hardware formats are getting so cheap that you can just buy both players for less than a combo hd-blu player. just buy both and get watching! its a fantastic difference with the right monitor/ projector. Really love it.

Danny Tse

I noticed Walmart is selling Blu-ray player as well.

cheddar

BIZILL wrote: »

[pretty graph of the top ten at amazon]

Nice graph of the amazon top ten Bizill. But since Nielsen releases actual sales data across a wide selection of both online and B&M outlets, it's easy to get a more accurate picture of what's gone on in software sales for the past few weeks. But I'm not surprised about the spike in amazon top ten since Universal dumped a ton of new releases in the last few weeks. But they don't seem to have turned the tide where it counts in the Nielsen's or in the top 25 and above at amazon which are still solidly favoring blu-ray.

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom080507/

Week7/15/07 BD:61% HDDVD:39%
Week7/22/07 BD:74% HDDVD:26%
Week7/29/07 BD:66% HDDVD:34%

YTD BD:67% HDDVD:33% SI (Since Inception) BD:60% HDDVD:40%

Source: Nielsen VideoSCan First Alert data

jdhdiggs

Sorry, but I do have to question the integrity of any publication with Wilmer Valderama on the front!

cheddar

jdhdiggs wrote: »

Sorry, but I do have to question the integrity of any publication with Wilmer Valderama on the front!

No argument on the cover, but I think it's a paid advertisement. The actual magazine and the numbers start on page 3.

BIZILL

don't know what 'ole sony and the 'sung' have in store, but toshiba's already had info leaked about their newest line-up of players. i can't wait to see some new specs on those units. and until bluray becomes more cost-effective, then i will continue to support hd dvd. do trust, they are not going anywhere anytime soon....if ever! have faith, my friend. i guess this will all come down to the end. which one will be left standing? this war has yet to become heated. let's see what's in store for 4th quarter... i really feel sony needs to drop their prices...

cheddar

BIZILL wrote: »

don't know what 'ole sony and the 'sung' have in store, but toshiba's already had info leaked about their newest line-up of players. i can't wait to see some new specs on those units. and until bluray becomes more cost-effective, then i will continue to support hd dvd. do trust, they are not going anywhere anytime soon....if ever! have faith, my friend. i guess this will all come down to the end. which one will be left standing? this war has yet to become heated. let's see what's in store for 4th quarter... i really feel sony needs to drop their prices...

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Toshiba/Hardware/Confirmed:_Toshibas_3rd-Gen_HD_DVD_Players_Due_This_Fall/842

Here is an announcement and specs of the new players. They're just getting the 24 fps and deep color that the ps3 is already capable of on the most expensive player. And for some reason, their cheapest player continues to be 1080i. I know a lot of people don't think there's a difference between 1080i/p. But these are 3rd generation players. I wonder why they can't pull the lowest one up to 1080p?

I think that toshiba's biggest feature difference remains iHD. We'll see what happens after October when the new fully enabled BD-J blu-ray players start coming out. Could be that this fall blu-ray steps up the interactivity while toshiba finally comes out with support for advanced video features. Toshiba's advanced model is still $499. But I would imagine prices will collapse across the board going into Christmas.

BIZILL

cheddar wrote: »

We'll see what happens after October when the new fully enabled BD-J blu-ray players start coming out. Could be that this fall blu-ray steps up the interactivity...

don't quote me, but from what i've read, all *current* bd players are not hardware-capable of the new profile. only the ps3 is updateable and has the balls to handle the new interactive menus/pip features. meaning early adopters will not be able to use the features when they place them on disc? that would suck, if it turns out to be true. any info on that, cheddster? i'm sure their new players will be nice, though and fully capable.

cheddar

Yes, first adopters usually have to put up with early generations of players not being fully upgradable to the bells and whistles of later models. The ps3 being a clear exception to the rule. Early generation dedicated blu-ray players will have problems with BD-J just as early generation (and maybe even the other two third generation) hd-dvd players will not be able to do things like deep color (deep color limited by the hdmi 1.3 hardware limitation), something that the latest sony players pretty much do across the board. I'd rather have the high end video quality over pip blue-screen commentary, but to each their own.

And to give you an idea of the impact.

Rough estimates of players out there and the impact of being a first adopter:

HD-DVD:

360 add-on - 150,000
Dedicated - 150,000

Blu-ray:

ps3 - 4 million
Dedicated - 100,000

Yeah, it sucks for those first 100,000 or so dedicated player owners on both sides. But let's face it. Next year should be the year for most of the public to actually consider buying a dedicated player so the latest players coming off the lines for Christmas shouldn't dissappoint on either side.

MikeC78

This "deep color" is really only a gimmick, what display support this? You can't take advantage of this just because the player supports it, the display needs to have this too. What is the real advantage of this??

cheddar

MikeC78 wrote: »

This "deep color" is really only a gimmick, what display support this? You can't take advantage of this just because the player supports it, the display needs to have this too. What is the real advantage of this??

Same thing with 24fps. Your TV has to refresh at a multiple of 24hz. And most displays don't support this. It's about upgradability. You could have said the same thing about 1080p just a year ago. But I think 1080p is becoming much more standard now and will certainly be the standard format in the future.

BIZILL

those sales figures seem way off...

MikeC78

The 1080p and 24fps is something totally different, but what the heck is "deep color" suppose to do?

Deep color is just a part of HDMI 1.3, you don't need it.

cheddar

MikeC78 wrote: »

The 1080p and 24fps is something totally different, but what the heck is "deep color" suppose to do?

Deep color is just a part of HDMI 1.3, you don't need it.

Until hdmi 1.3 capable HDTVs come out, we'll just have to wait and see what high bit color depth will do. But to be honest, you don't really 'need' a lot of things including sacd and dvd-a quality audio. It's just that audiophiles appreciate the difference. It's a little too early to tell if videophiles won't be able to appreciate high bit color depth.

MikeC78

Why not?? SACD and DVD-A audio is a nice option to take advantage of. HDMI 1.3 and this deep color is pretty much all a marketing sales pitch for the moment.

cheddar

BIZILL wrote: »

those sales figures seem way off...

http://www.vgchartz.com/

ps3 - 4.05 million sell through to consumers

1 - million each in Japan and Europe. Almost 2 million in North America.

BIZILL

cheddar wrote: »

http://www.vgchartz.com/

ps3 - 4.05 million sell through to consumers

1 - million each in Japan and Europe. Almost 2 million in North America.

no, that part duddn't bother me. it's the 'add-on' qty for the 360 and the stand-alone toshiba's. anyway, 360 add-on's are selling out across the nation with the current price drop. even here in my town i had to call around and only circuit city had a few left.

cheddar

MikeC78 wrote: »

Why not?? SACD and DVD-A audio is a nice option to take advantage of. HDMI 1.3 and this deep color is pretty much all a marketing sales pitch for the moment.

It's expensive to include the chips for HDMI 1.3 in components. Yet, players are increasingly coming out that support it (Sony and Toshiba high end) as well as receiver/pre/pros (onkyo, denon). The only piece yet to come are the HDMI 1.3 displays. Once all three pieces are in place and we can actually see for ourselves whether it's worth the hoopla, then it's too early to tell. Just saying that like audio equipment, it's too early to judge until you actually get ears/eyes on the product...

MikeC78

Understood, but the audio part we can actually take advantage of as we speak.

cheddar

BIZILL wrote: »

no, that part duddn't bother me. it's the 'add-on' qty for the 360 and the stand-alone toshiba's. anyway, 360 add-on's are selling out across the nation with the current price drop. even here in my town i had to call around and only circuit city had a few left.

The net is filled with articles like these:

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06/13/tosh_hddvd_forecast_slashed/

While it doesn't include the latest months, I'm sure that toshiba will be struggling to reach 1 million players even with the Christmas spike.

BIZILL

BIZILL wrote: »

no, that part duddn't bother me. it's the 'add-on' qty for the 360 and the stand-alone toshiba's. anyway, 360 add-on's are selling out across the nation with the current price drop. even here in my town i had to call around and only circuit city had a few left.

and in keeping with the point of the thread, TARGET locally is sold out of 360 hd dvd add-ons...;)

cheddar

BIZILL wrote: »

and in keeping with the point of the thread, TARGET locally is sold out of 360 hd dvd add-ons...;)

That's funny, 'cause I was in my local target this weekend and the shelves were empty of ps3s too. Far more relevant to this thread, though, is the rumor currently circulating around AVS that TARGET and Costco no longer display any HD-DVD players except the add-on for purchase online. I just checked, and yep, they're gone. I wonder why? It didn't say anything about it in the official announcement...

BIZILL

my guess as far as costco goes is that current stock will sell out soon and the new players are not yet ready for display. i hope that's the case. either way, i'm not worried about hd dvd going anywhere at all. neither do i think bluray will be gone anytime soon. like i said from the beginning, i think BOTH formats are here to stay. i chose hd dvd as it was the most cost-worthy purchase. and i will obviously continue to cheer for them as a successor to dvd. though sd dvd isn't going anywhere either...

VIVA HD DVD!!! ... i have no fear cheddar cheese.

cheddar

Bizill,

Good on ya for your dedication to your format. I'm not really in this to cheer on a format. If they both stay or one or the other dies, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. But I do want to get the most relevant information out there for those thinking of making a purchase. I try pretty hard to make sure my information is accurate and I think I've been pretty good in my information so far. But I'm sure you'll try and keep me current if necessary.

I've been saying for awhile now that if you like the available movies on hd-dvd, now is a great time to pick up cheap toshiba players. If you want a cheap 1080i player, A2s on closeout should be pretty compelling even compared to the add-on. I hope for your sake you're wrong about the current players being discontinued at costco and it's just some website glitch as the new players won't be ready until sometime this fall.

BIZILL

EH, when the price is right, i may jump to the other side. i may have no other choice. but as you are the bluray spokesperson, i too have my own stance. bluray camp have always been the ones to claim victory and post useless 'facts'. hd dvd supporters know they're the underdogs. and we're still alive and kicking. in fact, picking up great momentum at the same time. i should just change my cheer to say:

VIVA HIGH DEF DISC!!!

...as both formats will probably exist side-by-side.

cheddar

BIZILL wrote: »

EH, when the price is right, i may jump to the other side. i may have no other choice. but as you are the bluray spokesperson, i too have my own stance. bluray camp have always been the ones to claim victory and post useless 'facts'.

I've never 'claimed victory' or said that hd-dvd is 'dead'. Just cleaning up the 'facts' on the hd-dvd side from time to time...:p.