Dedicated Line?

kolyan2k

MikeC78 wrote: »

I wouldn't say 10awg is the wrong wire to use. You can buy some HD 20 amp outlets that accept 10awg just fine. 10awg is more for 30amp circuits, but it is acceptable to use on 20 amps too.

maybe you can. HD 20 AMP outlet with 30 AMP cable ? 100% rip off. have i done such a stupid thing in 10 years....no...has my father (also an electrician) done this in 16 years...no

MikeC78

kolyan2k wrote: »

maybe you can. HD 20 AMP outlet with 30 AMP cable ? 100% rip off. have i done such a stupid thing in 10 years....no...has my father (also an electrician) done this in 16 years...no

What is it so stupid, and why is it a rip off?? Just because you run 10awg wire rated for 30 amp circuits, doesn't mean it's stupid, just maybe a little overkill nothing wrong with it.

With the price of wire these days, 12/2 on a 20 amp circuit will work just fine.

Calm down killer...

unc2701

Uhhh... As long as the outlet is designed to accept the wire, it doesn't matter. Assuming you don't put a 30a breaker in the box it's still code. In fact, it you have a long run through tight conduit, you HAVE to step it up to 10/2.

Now, you're absolutely right that it'll set off red flags with an inspector, but it's not a safety or code issue.

kolyan2k

with you guys i can probably become a millionaire if i make an outlet that can take 100 amp cable

ben62670

You will definitely get a better connection using 12ga wire than 10 on HD 20 amp outlets. I was an electrician for 7 years, and making your connections in 10ga wire in an outlet box is extremely hard. There are codes to deal with here to. You can only have so many wires of such ga per cubic inch of a box. The electrician will have to use what is called an old work box. These are harder to work with than doing new construction. If you want to upgrade your wire you can request thhn, which is stranded. It is better wire, and caries higher currant than standard romex, but it will have to be piped from the panel to the box which is inside the wall. Not fun. I have done this. At least double the price on your project. Stick with 12/3 romex, and you will have more than enough!. When installing the wire make sure the electrician does not parallel any other circuits period. Do not cross any fluorescent lights, and you will be more than happy. Think about what you have now. I am assuming this is in a living room, bed room, or den. The only rooms in house required to use 20 amps are Kitchen, bathroom, and dinning room. You will most likely be upgrading from 15 amps to double 20's =40 amps. Done deal.

kolyan2k

unc2701 wrote: »

Uhhh... As long as the outlet is designed to accept the wire, it doesn't matter. Assuming you don't put a 30a breaker in the box it's still code. In fact, it you have a long run through tight conduit, you HAVE to step it up to 10/2.

Now, you're absolutely right that it'll set off red flags with an inspector, but it's not a safety or code issue.

i agree. but the run has to be pretty damn long. i don't remember the formula.

and i am sure u can use ANY AWG cable 1,2 etc. wise? no. and it will not change anything in home environment, nor it will change anything in HT setup

F1nut

Nothing wrong with using 10/2 on a dedicated 20 amp hifi line. I wouldn't have anything else.

MikeC78

kolyan2k wrote: »

i agree. but the run has to be pretty damn long. i don't remember the formula.

and i am sure u can use ANY AWG cable 1,2 etc. wise? no. and it will not change anything in home environment, nor it will change anything in HT setup

For an experienced electrician, you sure do a lot of back-peddling.;)

kolyan2k

MikeC78 wrote: »

For an experienced electrician, you sure do a lot of back-peddling.;)

i don't know what u mean.

there are two electrician here and i think both of us can agree that running 12/3 and installing 2 outlets is the correct way of doing the job. 10/2 is NOT a correct way of doing it. 12/3 = 40 amps, 10/2 = 30 amp.

MikeC78

Read your posts...

Post #30 and #37 both contradict themselves. No one here said that running 12 awg is NOT correct! Let me say this again and please follow along with me, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH USING 10/2 wire for a 20 amp outlet. Understood???

ben62670

kolyan2k wrote: »

i don't know what u mean.

there are two electrician here and i think both of us can agree that running 12/3 and installing 2 outlets is the correct way of doing the job. 10/2 is NOT a correct way of doing it. 12/3 = 40 amps, 10/2 = 30 amp.

I do have to totally agree with his statements. You can run your TV, and everything else on one circuit, and your amp/amps on the other. Done deal. Done right. I have wired Plenty of higher end homes with setups dedicated to high power home theater, and the AUDIO ADVISERS ALL HAVE SPECIFIED 12/3. So I guess the designers, and the electricians have no Idea what they are doing:rolleyes:

ben62670

MikeC78 wrote: »

Read your posts...

Post #30 and #37 both contradict themselves. No one here said that running 12 awg is NOT correct! Let me say this again and please follow along with me, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH USING 10/2 wire for a 20 amp outlet. Understood???

I think there is a communication gap here.
I don't think that running 10/2 is bad. I think what is being advised is running 12/3 is much better.;)

kolyan2k

MikeC78 wrote: »

Read your posts...

Post #30 and #37 both contradict themselves. No one here said that running 12 awg is NOT correct! Let me say this again and please follow along with me, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH USING 10/2 wire for a 20 amp outlet. Understood???

what i don't understand is why are we talking about 10/2 ? from electrical point of view, it simply does not make sense. for a person that knows something about electrical wiring, it also does not make any sense.

is it a good idea to run 10/2 solid electrical cable to speakers ? no. will speakers work ? yes. exactly the same thing is here. and it is not a good idea to run 10/2 to a 20 amp outlet. will it work ? yes.

F1nut

The communication gap here is that some folks are talking about HT and others are talking about 2 channel. I believe Brad's focus is 2 channel. My electrician recommends 10/2 for hifi.

My power cords are 6 gauge. Might not make sense to some, but I like them.

MikeC78

kolyan2k wrote: »

what i don't understand is why are we talking about 10/2 ? from electrical point of view, it simply does not make sense. for a person that knows something about electrical wiring, it also does not make any sense.

is it a good idea to run 10/2 solid electrical cable to speakers ? no. will speakers work ? yes. exactly the same thing is here. and it is not a good idea to run 10/2 to a 20 amp outlet. will it work ? yes.

I was talking about using a single run of 10/2 from one dedicated 20 amp breaker to a single 20 amp outlet.

Please explain to me why it is NOT a good idea to run 10/2 to a 20 amp outlet?

Gaara

My father is a builder, his friend is an electrician for over 20 years and came over to make sure I was doing things right (he offered to do it but I wanted to do it myself). I was originally going to use 12/2 for the run and he highly recommended against it, saying I would need at least 10/2.

He also told me about voltage drop and how going with a lower gauge wire reduced the issue.

Jared

ben62670

MikeC78 wrote: »

I was talking about using a single run of 10/2 from one dedicated 20 amp breaker to a single 20 amp outlet.

Please explain to me why it is NOT a good idea to run 10/2 to a 20 amp outlet?

I'm not saying it is a bad idea. For nearly the same price though I think you have better options. You could even run 10/3. Its tough to work with. It certainly won't hurt anything. I don't know exactly what you are running for gear, but I always try to look out for the future.

Ben

How far is the pannel to the outlet?

MikeC78

ben62670 wrote: »

How far is the pannel to the outlet?

Not far at all, maybe 30' tops.

BTW, I have two dedicated 20amp circuits ran to my HT.

kolyan2k

MikeC78 wrote: »

I was talking about using a single run of 10/2 from one dedicated 20 amp breaker to a single 20 amp outlet.

Please explain to me why it is NOT a good idea to run 10/2 to a 20 amp outlet?

1. by electrical code a 20 amp breaker and 20 amp outlet are for use with 12 AWG cable. (yes you can use 10/2 and maybe even 8/2)
2. 10/2 is thicker and harder to work with.
3. 10/2 cable is made to carry 30 amps and if you connect it to a 20 amp breaker, if 20 or more amps will be carried, the breaker will trip (so if you use 10/2 it also makes no sense to install 20 amp breaker, might as well install 30 amp)
4. 10/2 will ONLY provide you with 30 amps for your HT. (12/3 will provide you with 40 amps. so it makes more sense to use 12/3)
5. running 10/2 and connecting to a 20 amp breaker is the same thing as running 12/2 and connecting to 20 amp breaker. nothing will change. it will only cost more. the breaker WILL NOT allow more then 20 amp to pass through 10/2

the MAIN answer to your question is #4

oh and if you can answer this question...then you can answer your own.

why is it NOT a good idea to run number 2 gauge cable to a speaker located 3 feet away ?

MikeC78

I'm wasting my breath here...

Early B.

OK, fellas, let's move on....We can argue about wire gauge in another thread.

...back to the oriignal intent of this thread...

Bottom line -- sounds like running a dedicated line is beneficial for several reasons and it doesn't cost a lot. Minor improvements in sound quality are likely to be the end result. So this is simply a system tweak. Just make sure it's done professionally and up to code.

kolyan2k

Early B. wrote: »

OK, fellas, let's move on....We can argue about wire gauge in another thread.

...back to the oriignal intent of this thread...

Bottom line -- sounds like running a dedicated line is beneficial for several reasons and it doesn't cost a lot. Minor improvements in sound quality are likely to be the end result. So this is simply a system tweak. Just make sure it's done professionally and up to code.

hey Early B. i see that you have both Bada HD-22 tube player and Oppo DV-970HD ? i can't seem to find a comparison like this anywhere. can you comment on Oppo vs Bada ? Is there any improvement and is it huge ?

Early B.

kolyan2k wrote: »

hey Early B. i see that you have both Bada HD-22 tube player and Oppo DV-970HD ? i can't seem to find a comparison like this anywhere. can you comment on Oppo vs Bada ? Is there any improvement and is it huge ?

It would be totally unfair for me to compare a $150 DVD player with a badass tube CD player.

kolyan2k

Early B. wrote: »

It would be totally unfair for me to compare a $150 DVD player with a badass tube CD player.

yeah but there are alot of articles out there stating that audio output of 970HD is close to players costing thousands of dollars.....so i am kind of confused.

i almost bought Original CD-A8T locally, but seller found a buyer that didn't need to demo the unit.

Early B.

kolyan2k wrote: »

yeah but there are alot of articles out there stating that audio output of 970HD is close to players costing thousands of dollars.....so i am kind of confused.

Don't believe it.

The Oppo has a exceptional audio output for $150, but that's as much as I can say about it...Besides, it's a DVD player, for Christ's sake.

F1nut

According to Music Direct, Oppo players, which they sell, are easily out classed by just about anything over $300.00. It's a budget player, nothing more.

Early B.

Gaara wrote: »

Carol was highly recommend when I purchased it so I bought some of 250' of their 10/2 wire cost about $150. I ran the line and had plenty left over so I have made 4 or 5 power cords with all the extras.

Another brand that was highly recommended was JPS Labs but be forwarned, their cable is mighty expensive as 10/2 is $18 a foot.

Yeah, the JPS cable is too expensive. I need 50 ft, so the cost would be a whopping $900!! I checked Audioquest, but I didn't find a comparable cable to the JPS Power AC cable. Are there any other audio companies that make cables for dedicated lines?

Early B.

This is the closest thing I've found to what I'm looking for (I think), but it's still too costly: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=100-790&raid=53&rak=100-790

About $400 for my application. May have to settle for Home Depot's Carol...

However, I paid a similar price for my speaker cables and they're only 10 ft. Hmmmm.

Will it work? Is it worth it? I dunno...

Schwingding

I have run 3 dedicated 20 amp circuits for my A/V gear. The runs went the length of the house as the breaker panel was on one end and the outlets all the way at the other end. The only cuts required were where I wanted the outlets to be located. It is not a difficult job but can be time consuming and frustrating, mostly in pulling the wires.

As kolan stated, 10 awg is not preferred for 120 volt applications and it will/can be confusing for anyone else who may work in there from time to time, plus connections will be more difficult as the receptacles are designed for at most 12awg.

I would run 12/2, and if you need one circuit, run two sets of wires because later you might wish you had.

As you have not done this before, I would not recommend DIY without someone to help/look over your shoulder. Breaker panels can be scary and dangerous places for the unitiated. I've done some dumb things and have been shocked several times, it sucks but it doesn't seem to kill.

tryrrthg

Early B. wrote: »

This is the closest thing I've found to what I'm looking for (I think), but it's still too costly: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=100-790&raid=53&rak=100-790

About $400 for my application. May have to settle for Home Depot's Carol...

However, I paid a similar price for my speaker cables and they're only 10 ft. Hmmmm.

Will it work? Is it worth it? I dunno...

This guy used regular old 10GA romex. I think you'll be fine with plain old romex...

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue16/lavigneroom.htm

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1036349020&read&3&4&

from the first link:

A 'home run' goes from the meter to the dedicated panel outside my room in the hallway. There is no main breaker in the dedicated panel, and it is the highest quality panel I could find. This panel has its own quite robust dual grounding rods. There are 11 dedicated circuits for the room, all with 'home runs' of 10 gauge Romex run to JENA Labs 'deep-immersion cryo'ed' duplex outlets... all grounded and run with the same phase.