is this buyer on eBay trying to screw me over?

madmax

One thing to keep in mind. The seller doing everything right and the contract being completed are two totally different things. Half of that contract is the buyer receiving the product in its described condition.
madmax

rskarvan

Lets see....

The seller offers shipping insurance and the buyer declines to save a few bucks.
The seller packages the unit securely.
The package is damaged when the truck hits a big Michigan pot-hole and another heavy package falls onto it.
You are going to tell me that the seller is responsible? I don't think so.

They buyer assumes the risk of "damage in transit" if he declines shipping insurance.

It really is that simple.

rskarvan

The real question is exactly at what point in time in a transaction does "change of ownership" occur? And, more specifically, if it is not specified in the purchase contract, what does the law say about "default" ownership? Personally, I think the "transfer of ownership" occurs when the terms of the contract are fulfilled (conforming product delivered to shipping company).

I'm thinking that unless there is sufficient evidence of fraud on the part of the seller, the buyer assumes ownership when the package is delivered to the shipping agency under the terms agreed upon by the buyer in the purchase contract. At that point, any damage that occurs in transit must be resolved between the buyer and the shipping company. The exception to this would be when the seller pays for shipping (including it in the auction price). Then, and only then, the ownership would transfer upon signed receipt of the buyer and any transit damage would need to be the burden of the seller.

rskarvan

Deleted upon request of BillbillW.

VR3

Ron,
Do you have to prove something in every post you make?

Its annoying.

billbillw

WTF was post #35 supposed to tell us?

This whole conversation is BS. The guy is trying to scam him. He left + feedback, now he has a problem? He screwed up the amp installing it or can't figure out how to get it to work. Simple.

This is a $70 amp, bought by some newbie (probably a teenager) who tries to sound like he knows what he's doing by BSing and saying that he is a pro installer. His grammar and description of the problem tells me otherwise.

Nisqually Dave

one thing that everyone overlooked is he left positive feedback, on that alone I would work with the guy and see what you can find out. He cannot leave negative feedback on you now even if he wanted to.

You hold all the cards in your hands so see what you can do.

Dave

rskarvan

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Ron,
Do you have to prove something in every post you make?

Its annoying.

I am not trying to prove anything. I am simply trying to figure out the answer so that I don't get scammed in the future. Perhaps if other people on this forum would be a little more cautious/educated, crooks like Wangotango wouldn't have been able to rip people off. If you think you are annoyed now... wait until a bad auction on e-bay bites you.

By the way... I think its far safer to purchase audio equipment on Audiogon than on E-bay.

VR3

If I remember correctly, you fought for Wango...

madmax

rskarvan wrote: »

crooks like Wangotango wouldn't have been able to rip people off

I can't believe you would call Wangotango a crook, he is just a product of his environment.
madmax

rskarvan

I did meet him when I picked up a set of M10 Series 2 w/original stands from him (Wango). Let me describe him...

He was about 6' 4" with a very good sized beer gut.
He wore a baseball cap.
He had a couple small toddlers roaming the apartment/townhouse.
His audio room was very clean.
He was rather soft-spoken and seemed to be a nice enough guy.
He helped me load the speakers into my car.
More or less... I thought of him as a stereo-typical UAW-type guy. One of the ones that you would prefer to not have on your production line. (please don't flame me for this... I just think that guys like this make up about 5% of any workforce).

rskarvan

madmax wrote: »

I can't believe you would call Wangotango a crook, he is just a product of his environment.
madmax

Perhaps this is true. Fort Wayne Indiana was named the dumbest city in the USA a few years back by USA Today. Wango blended pretty well.

danger boy

maybe the buyer of the amp.. needs to check his fuses and wiring.. also... i'm not very knowledgeable about CA, but don't amps need a certain microvolts from the head unit to work properly?

i wonder what head unit he's using? I think it's on his end...

madmax

rskarvan wrote: »

I thought of him as a stereo-typical UAW-type guy.

Yea, me too.
madmax

MSALLA

I treat my buyers the same way I would want to be treated. DOA items should be at least looked at (and Nadams offerd) and all items are shipped insured. It is not an option. You have the right to just blow the guy off but it's a low life thing to do.

JimBRICK

just go down there and kick him in the nuts...............thats always worked for me

WilliamM2

They buyer assumes the risk of "damage in transit" if he declines shipping insurance.

Not according to PayPal or Ebay rules. It is the seller's responsibility to deliver the item in the stated condition. If you don't want to eat the cost, you must insure it yourself. This item was cheap enough that insurance is free through both UPS and FedEx.

Even if it is insured, the shipping company gives the money to the shipper, as they purchased the insurance, they don't give it to the recipient, so the seller still needs to give a refund.

WilliamM2

You hold all the cards in your hands so see what you can do.

Not really, he accepted PayPal as payment, so PayPal holds all the cards. Sadly, even if the buyer is scamming him, if he files a complaint, PayPal will very likely refund his money, and deduct it from the seller's account. Failing that, if he used a credit card, he can file a chargeback.

That is why I never sell on Ebay anymore, too many scam stories.

rskarvan

WilliamM2... can you provide a link to where in Paypal or Ebay rules that it states..."It is the seller's responsibility to deliver the item in the stated condition". Its not that I don't believe you... ok... well,... its that I just don't believe you.

polksda

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Not according to PayPal or Ebay rules. It is the seller's responsibility to deliver the item in the stated condition. If you don't want to eat the cost, you must insure it yourself. This item was cheap enough that insurance is free through both UPS and FedEx.

Even if it is insured, the shipping company gives the money to the shipper, as they purchased the insurance, they don't give it to the recipient, so the seller still needs to give a refund.

Bingo!

The obligation of the seller is to deliver functional nondamaged merchandise regardless of the carrier used.

I automatically include insurance in the S&H of everything I sell. Not optional. Not at the whim of the buyer. Not a required extra charge. Part of the base S&H. Period. That avoids a *LOT* of extra hassles and misunderstandings...

rskarvan

So... if this be true... its far better to be a buyer than a seller on E-bay. Correct? If the buyer decides he doesn't like something... he can just drop it on the floor and break it and.... presto.... call it shipping damage and stick it to the seller. Then, no matter what, he can call Paypal, get all the funds held, and eventually his coinage will be returned to him.

And, of course, this scenario can be repeated over-and-over by simply opening up a new e-bay account with each transaction. Afterall, positive feedback is rarely a buyer requirement.

Certainly this can't be the case.

madmax

rskarvan wrote: »

Certainly this can't be the case.

There are special rules to protect against those who reside in Indiana.
madmax

MSALLA

WilliamM2 wrote: »

Even if it is insured, the shipping company gives the money to the shipper, as they purchased the insurance, they don't give it to the recipient, so the seller still needs to give a refund.

The shipper can autherise to have the check cut to the buyer with the proper paperwork. There are some stipulations but I have done it at my work to keep things simple as far as paperwork.

nadams

I haven't heard anything back from the buyer yet. I'm not going to comment on the rest of this thread....

Bill Ayotte

nadams wrote: »

I haven't heard anything back from the buyer yet. I'm not going to comment on the rest of this thread....

This tells me he really is trying to pull a fast one on you. I don't leave POSITIVE feedback unless the item was received in the way it was described in the auction.

madmax

Bill Ayotte wrote: »

This tells me he really is trying to pull a fast one on you. I don't leave POSITIVE feedback unless the item was received in the way it was described in the auction.

So are you are saying he left positive feedback as part of a scam?
madmax

Bill Ayotte

madmax wrote: »

So are you are saying he left positive feedback as part of a scam?
madmax

No, what I am saying is it most likely worked fine until he went to adjust it or otherwise play with it....He left feedback after the first time he got sound out of it, and then blew it up and decided to try to get his money back....I've seen this done before, I am ashamed to say by a friend of mine...:(

The seller just said "Ok, must have been broken in shipping..." He didn't want it sent back, just took his word for it...

rskarvan

Was the buyer from Indiana? If so, you can rest assured that he is of the honest sort and has a legitimate problem and is deserving of an immediate and complete refund of 110% purchase price to compensate him for his time and trouble. (kidding).

Who knows. Caveat Emptor.

madmax

Again with the "special" Indiana rules? Are you guys all special?
madmax

rskarvan

American by birth. Hoosier by grace of God!