Aaron-Paradigm Studio 100's vs Lsi15's

SPEAKER7SPEAKER7 Posts: 355
edited September 2002 in Speakers
Aaron,

Just wondering if you can give me a little run down on the comparisons between these two speak's. I do recall you had posted previously on your audition on the Paradigm Studio 100's but I can't seem to find it. I planning to put together a 2 channels system but I have not decided on which pair of speaks to purchase......price,sound,quality build are very important and the choices are Polk Lsi15's,Totem Forest,Paradigm Studio 100's. I'm not planning on purchasing a sub for this system.....so bass is also very important for these full range speakers.

The pre/pow amps will probably be the Rotel RB 1080 (200wattsx2) and the pre will be the Rotel RC 1070......these amp's are in my price range..............................Mantis has mention these pre/pow are pretty decent gear from his experience.


thanks!


dc.

Thanks's:lol:
Post edited by SPEAKER7 on

Comments

  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    I know that I don't have the benefit of Aaron's golden ears but having heard the LSi's and the Paradigm Reference series, the LSi is a better speaker in all departments, IMO. The LSi's that I heard imaged as well, if not better; detail was better with the LSi. Bass extension, hmmmm, I dunno but both were fine in that area. Anyway, I'd give the nod to the LSi's

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    I had always admired the Studio 100's. I mean, how many 3-way tower speakers weighing 100lb.+ with dual 8" woofers can you buy for around $2000? Just about none. I had read all of the glowing reviews, too, so I was set to fall in love with these speakers. You can read about my first demo experience here. After this poor showing I wanted to hear the speakers on some real gear.

    My next demo took place on an Anthem separates system. The pair of separates go for over $3000, and the amp pumps out 200W. It's nice stuff. Anyway, I was dully unimpressed. The bass was decent, though it seemed to lack slam. It was taught and fairly deep, but not as deep as I expected. The speakers didn't seem to image that well, though I imagine they could have been better in a different room. Still, I wasn't getting a very solid center image. Resolution was also lacking. I guess I was expecting too much from a 3-way tower for only $2000. They're a better speaker than Polk's RT line, but not nearly as much as I imagined. I demoed the speakers again at another store, but with the same Anthem gear. I was underwhelmed again. At that point I dismissed the Studio 100's as not being the speaker for me.

    I haven't heard the LSi15's, but I have heard the LSi9's. My demo of the LSi9's was on cheap electronics, and I still felt that they were a bit better than the Studio 100's in all areas but bass (since they're a bookshelf). I can only imagine what the LSi's sound like on good gear. I would think that the LSi15's would easily outperform the Studio 100's and for a couple hundred dollars less. Mantis loves his LSi15's, and he's not an easy guy to please.

    Another speaker you might want to check out is the Magnepan MG1.6/QR that I mentioned in the link above. It's an awesome speaker for $1700. It's only real fault is that its bass is a bit sloppy. Still, it does other things better than any other speaker I've heard for that kind of money.

    Good luck with the speaker hunt and keep us updated on your progress.

    Aaron
  • SPEAKER7SPEAKER7 Posts: 355
    edited September 2002
    thanks guy's(Troy,Aaron) for all your great reviews!


    It's going to be a tough decision to make.........I have a limited budget.....

    I believe the Lsi are going for 2600.00cdn,Paradigm 2400.00cdn and the totems 4000.00cdn before the 14.5% sales taxes. The Lsi is not available at the dealer that I called this afternoon , they only carry the RT line but he can order them in for me from the company.

    I will do some more searching before I will make the big leap.....any other recommendation will definitely be welcome.
    I will try to have a look at the Maggies......I guess they're a different concept speaker.......hows the bass extension?.......is a sub required?


    dc.:lol:
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    DEFINATELY check out the Maggies. The bass in the 1.6 is probably less than the P-dime and the LSi but IMO, it is an overall better speaker. Transparency and definition and detail that is better than either Polk or P-dime......For under 2G's US, I think it is the best deal going. Ribbons are a different sound but one that I really like.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    The Maggies don't go as deep as the Paradigm's or the Polk's. However, it is satisfying bass. When you listen to them it's surprising how much bass a speaker that's only 2" thick can produce. Depending on your bass tastes, a subwoofer isn't required. They certainly have more resolution than the Paradigm's. I haven't heard the LSi's with good equipment, so it's hard to say. I would think the Maggy's would be comparable to the Polk's, if not slighly better. As for transparency, well, the Maggies are just flat out amazing for the price. The sound of a planar speaker is also very different from that of a box speaker. The Maggies also throw a much larger sound due to their size. The soundfield that the two speakers produce is very different as well. The Maggies don't pinpoint image; it's more nebulous. I like pinpoint imaging, so I'm not a big fan of this. Anyway, go listen to them and see what you think. I think you'll be impressed.

    Aaron
  • liv4famliv4fam Posts: 311
    edited September 2002
    For around 2400.00 dollar price range you might want to audition the Dynaudio Audience 82's and Dynaudio Contour 1.8's for around 3600.00. These are amazing speakers for the money. I think Aaron heard them at Soundex and will probably come highly recommended.
    I sense much dishonesty in you...............Sense much fear in you.
    Lead you down the dark path they will.
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    I actually wasn't that impressed with the Audience line. The thing that did impress me with the 82 was its bass performance. Man, those things can kick! Part of the problem could have been the use of a Rotel receiver instead of separates. It's a good speaker, but I question how good it is for $2400, especially with the LSi15 going for $1600.

    Now the Contour line....that's a totally different animal. I was very impressed with the Contour 1.3SE. Next time I go down to Soundex I'll be demoing the 1.8's. Anyway, I think the Contour line is out of the price range that Speaker7 is looking for.

    Aaron
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    Nebulous?? what is that??

    Could you dumb it down for us cretins a little?

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited September 2002
    He's had his nose in the magazines obviously..... ;)

    First the new maggies have better bass than the old ones, then we hear they have sloppy bass, now they have satisfying bass and you may not even want a sub....

    I think 'go listen' is the best advice so far....

    Cheers,
    'Pinpoint Imaging' Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    The soundfield that the two speakers produce is very different as well. The Maggies don't pinpoint image; it's more nebulous.
    I found that the 1.6's couldn't precisely place an object in space. It was more like "the instrument is over in that region" rather than "the instrument is right there." I'm guessing the reason for this has something to do with the large driver area, but I'm really not sure. They could produce a solid center image, though.

    Aaron
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    First the new maggies have better bass than the old ones
    This is claimed repeatedly from other sources.
    then we hear they have sloppy bass
    Makes me wonder what the old ones sounded like. Also, the 1.6 is a quasi-ribbon model that is less expensive than the true ribbon models. The bass isn't terribly sloppy like the RT800, but it's definitely there and noticable.
    now they have satisfying bass and you may not even want a sub....
    They produce a satisfying amount of bass. For instance, I consider the RT800's to produce a satisfying amount of bass, but it's certainly not good bass. It's also not the last word in depth, but it can stand on its own without a sub, though I definitely prefer a sub.

    Aaron
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    So the bass from the RT12's must REALLY suck? ;)

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited September 2002
    Hey Aaron, just curious, how many hours do you have with any of the speakers listed above? (we can go ahead and count receiver hours if ya want ;) )

    How many times have you been out to demo speakers? 10? Maybe 20? How many pairs of speakers have you owned, 2, 3? How many different brands?

    I'm not nit-picking, or claiming myself any better, just trying to establish how big the 'grain of salt' factor should be with your (very opinionated and articulate) reviews.....

    I see you having good 'time' with the Polk RT line, as you and your parents both own them. I am simply trying to understand what your 'reference point' is, especially since you want to discuss soundstage, imaging, placement, depth etc etc....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    I think any review should be taken with a grain of salt, especially non-professional ones. To reiterate the obvious, everyone hears things differently and values different aspects of sound. I mean, how else can you explain people that like Klipsch speakers? There are also varying rooms and levels of equipment that can vastly effect how a speaker sounds (more obviousness).

    I guess you would say my reference is the dollar. Given a certain dollar amount, I then try to find my favorite speaker. That speaker is then my reference at a given price point. For example, the Revel M20 is my refernece bookshelf at $2000. I've listened to a fair number of bookshelf's in that price range, and it's my favorite.
    Hey Aaron, just curious, how many hours do you have with any of the speakers listed above?
    I guess it should first be noted that I always listen to the same three tracks on all my demos. Once I've listened to those and have a good feel for a speakers performance, I listen to some other stuff.

    I would say I've only spent about a 30-40 minutes with the Studio 100's total (over the course of 3 demos). I just wasn't impressed with them and didn't feel the need to listen very much with them. Have you ever sat down with a speaker and within a few seconds you know you don't like it? This is especially the case when you have a reference speaker, and you're looking for that kind of sound.

    I've had two half hour sessions with the Maggies on the same equipment in the same room. The first session was immediately followed with a demo of the Martin Logan Aeon, and the second one was immediately followed with a demo of the Revel M20's.

    I've had one half hour session with the LSi9 on cheap electronics (as noted).
    How many times have you been out to demo speakers? 10? Maybe 20?
    Probably about 15 times in the last year.
    How many pairs of speakers have you owned, 2, 3? How many different brands?
    Three pairs, two brands, though I have also lived wih the RT12's and RTA-11T's.
    I'm not nit-picking, or claiming myself any better, just trying to establish how big the 'grain of salt' factor should be with your (very opinionated and articulate) reviews.....
    I think it would be interesting to hear what you think about something for a change.

    Aaron
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited September 2002
    I've posted a few formal reviews on some speakers here, and my general opinions on a regular basis, and you've read them. You just seem to be in active review mode, so I thought I would ask.... The answers were as I expected, thank you.

    Sorry speaker7 for taking your post off topic, but hey, whats new.... ;)

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    What I mean is, if you're going to comment on a thread involving Mangepan, Paradigm, and Polk, why don't you give your opinion on these brands and speakers.

    Aaron
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited September 2002
    Hahaha. Yeah, they won't win any audiophile beauty contests, but thankfully they do sound pretty sweet.

    Aaron
  • nascarmannnascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited September 2002
    I wish my ears were 1/4 as musically trained as Aarons.....

    Nebulous, lack slam, dully unimpressed, image, pinpoint image, solid center image, resolution, satisfying bass, transparency, soundfield.....WOW
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    See, I think the cool factor of the Maggies is pretty high.....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited September 2002
    Originally posted by nascarmann
    I wish my ears were 1/4 as musically trained as Aarons.....


    Go get your 30 minute demo on...(using a receiver is optional) and *POOF*, you are set my redneck brotha.... ;)

    I agree Troy, the Maggie Monoliths make my pants go crazy....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    Man, I'm DYING over here........

    Yeah, well, who can you believe? Certainly not those deaf BAS dudes...

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • SPEAKER7SPEAKER7 Posts: 355
    edited September 2002
    Russman,


    Just wondering about your thoughts on the Paradigm Studio 100 vs the Lsi 15's.


    It's great to have many opinions (bias or not) it's a learning experience from different points of views.........it's makes the decision that much more interesting and it could draw a closer conclusion to my choices. (definitely I'm not and expert in the higher end audio equipment)

    thanks!


    dc.:D
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    Speaker7

    I think the best advice is to listen to as many different speaks as you can, I wouldn't rule anything else.

    Opinions are like rectums, everybody has one.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • nascarmannnascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited September 2002
    Opinions are like rectums, everybody has one.

    True but......one must consider there solid center image and satisfying bass. Smell is also a consideration...;)
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,144
    edited September 2002
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH

    c'mon, Aaron is going to get a complex and go mantis on us if you don't lighten up.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited September 2002
    Speaker, I have not had an LSi demo, not even a 30 minute one.

    You'd think I could find some in the Dallas area, but they seem to be few and far between. There are some dealers, but none close enough that I could simply make an afternoon out of the trip....

    I was thoroughly impressed with Studio 40 and 60, but have not spent time with the 100's yet. A slightly laid back midrange, just a dash of brightness (typical of the Paradigm metal dome to me), and they did bass like no tomorrow for their size.

    I actually didn't want to like them, especially up against my beloved B&W CDM1 NT, but it would be a tough call to decide blindly between the two on sound alone (price, finish, etc aside)...

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • DarqueKnightDarqueKnight Posts: 6,603
    edited September 2002
    Originally posted by Aaron
    I guess it should first be noted that I always listen to the same three tracks on all my demos.

    What are your reference tracks and what is the quality of the recording?
    "So hot it burns Mice!"~DK
    "Polk SDA-SRSs are hopelessly out of date both sonically and technologically... I see no value whatsoever in older SDA speakers."~Audio Asylum Member
    "Knowledge, without understanding, is a path to failure."~DK
    "Those who irrationally rail against something or someone that is no threat to them, actually desire (or desire to be like) the thing or person they are railing against."~DK
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,432
    edited September 2002
    Speaker7,
    I have heard many Paradigm speakers over the years.I'm not even Impressed.There nice, but they tend to be bright.Bass also seems alittle sloppy as well.The last Reference Pair I listened to was on a Integra receiver,I forget the model number,maybe Liv4 fam can fill you in on the model numbers.

    As far as the Lsi 15's????I 'm completely sadisfied with there ability to playback music of all types.Female voice can send you into tears.

    My house is under way,completely framed out and the Sub's are coming in 2 weeks.I'm so juiced.(Pluming,HVAC,Electrician,etc)

    I plan on completing the Entire speaker system - the sub Lsi.ReL Storm will be the sub of choice.

    But in the end you need to get out there and listen.Good speakers or not,you need to like them.

    You know all the fun is there, listening to different kinds of speakers.For the most part, they all have there own sound.You'll find your sound man.........
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • gidrahgidrah Posts: 3,031
    edited September 2002
    If you can find them I'd also suggest auditioning a pair of Vandersteens.
    Make it Funky! :)
  • gmggmg Posts: 22
    edited September 2002
    I have a pair of the 100 dimes. I'm not qualified to use the terms most reviewers use. I love mine. Started with RT2000i's, then 55's. I wanted to listen to the LSI line but I'm not traveling 3.5 hours for it. My dimes sound good to me with the equipment I have. I plan on replacing my entire Polk line with the dimes. I'd like to have heard the LSI's but, in my area, no Polk dealers, no sales. Gordo
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