GM is now the #2 automaker.....

Mazeroth

shepx2 wrote: »

And the crumbling is why I won't move back there. With no Steel mills or auto plants, there will be nothing left.

Unless Toyota or honda builds a plant to replace it.

That's exactly why I moved out of there and hate going home to visit.

Now, if Toyota or Honda built a plant up there it wouldn't do much for the economy as they pay their employees horrifically unless you have a white collar job. It would help, but not much.

aaharvel

This will be the best thing to have ever happened to GM, mark my words.

TroyD

rskarvan wrote: »

What about the $1500 per vehicle economic trade-benefit that goes to Asia because of unfair currency manipulations? What about the fact the big three are supporting more retireee's than active workers and the Toyota's/Honda's/Hyundai's don't have to address this issue? What about the fact that all these new foreign assembly plants pay ZERO property tax because of the huge tax abatements that were given to them to locate to the state? What about the fact that these companies are mostly located in the south where it is historically difficult for labor to organize (for any industry). What about the fact that all the profits from the foreign companies go directly to their home country? Lastly, what about the fact that my Grandfather fought in combat in WWII because Japan surprise attacked Pearl Harbor?

That's right, **** it. Why even bother to TRY and compete.

Rather than try and roll up our sleeves, suck it up and do what it takes to succeed, let's just sit around and whine about what we have done to ourselves.

That's the good old American spirit.

Exhibit "A" for one of the reasons for the decline........our own unwillingness to sacrifice for the greater good.

BDT

Mazeroth

rskarvan wrote: »

What about the $1500 per vehicle economic trade-benefit that goes to Asia because of unfair currency manipulations? What about the fact the big three are supporting more retireee's than active workers and the Toyota's/Honda's/Hyundai's don't have to address this issue? What about the fact that all these new foreign assembly plants pay ZERO property tax because of the huge tax abatements that were given to them to locate to the state? What about the fact that these companies are mostly located in the south where it is historically difficult for labor to organize (for any industry). What about the fact that all the profits from the foreign companies go directly to their home country? Lastly, what about the fact that my Grandfather fought in combat in WWII because Japan surprise attacked Pearl Harbor?

****, I can't believe I didn't read this post earlier. Rock on, rskarvan!

AsSiMiLaTeD

Hmmm...let's take a look at our history with cars:

Dodge Neon - OK, that was a piece of **** and should have never been built, so I guess I can't complain about all the problems I had with that (AC, water pump, transmission) in the first 50K miles

Chevy Cavalier - OK, I get it, another cheap **** car, really shouldn't complain about the bad injectors, faulty coil pack, AC, and wheel bearings that went out in the first 60K miles.

Toyota Corolla, had it for a couple years, not one single problem, but had to sell because it's just too damn small.

Jeep Grand Cherokee (Limited) - Here's a nice expensive 35,000 SUV, shouldn't have any problems with it right? within the first two years, we had to change the spark plugs 8 times because they kept getting dirty and no one co7uld tell us why. We also had a bad wheel bearing. and also had to replace the tie rod on the front. But the biggest problem with that was the terrible transmission! We had it serviced multiple times, but no one could figure out why it kept slipping out of gerar. I finally traded it in one day when we were at a red light and stepped on the gas and it slipped into reverse and came within inches of taking out the car behind us.

Toyota 4Runner - Had it for 3 years now, 70K miles, not one damn problem. It still runs and rides like the day we bought it, and I hope that keeps up.

Maybe I'm giving my money to some foreign national terrorist government or whatever...but oh well. You know what, I need to get to work every day, and I need a vehicle that I can depend on to get me where I need to be all the time.

Until I find another car that can do that, I'm sticking with my Toyota.

VR3

Amen Polkmaniac, rock on

Bill Ayotte

there is nothing cavalier about a Cavalier.....

disneyjoe7

With all this talk about GM being Toyota, I'm buying a Chevy ? just because it's the right thing to do. Buy American support America


Got to go a wave my American Flag see ya.

VR3

I must admit though, my 1991 F150 has been a GREAT truck. But man it rattles like a mother.

fatchowmein

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

I must admit though, my 1991 F150 has been a GREAT truck. But man it rattles like a mother.

Ditto except I have a Ranger. What can I say? I'm 5'5" and a hundred and nothing pounds.

No problems so far except with a air/fuel mix device that I googled and spent $40 to replace (15 min job). 8 years and 110,000 miles. American trucks run forever unless you get something fancy installed.

Fancy breaks.

VR3

Its a high maintence bird, what can ya say.

Rattles, likes oil, but cant keep it down.

ohskigod

the way these corps are ran, your putting the same money in (and out) of this country wethr you buy GM or Toyota. Corps of these sizes transcend country borders. how many foreigners own gm stock, how many americans own Toyota stock. How many GM factories overseas, how many Toyota factories here.

buy american? the concept barely exist, especially in the auto market.

VR3

We need an internet direct auto manufacture.

With a 30 day on the road trial...

And a money back garuntee, you pay shipping.

disneyjoe7

ohskigod wrote: »

the way these corps are ran, your putting the same money in (and out) of this country wethr you buy GM or Toyota. Corps of these sizes transcend country borders. how many foreigners own gm stock, how many americans own Toyota stock. How many GM factories overseas, how many Toyota factories here.

buy american? the concept barely exist, especially in the auto market.

Lou, Shhhhhhhh don't talk logic to them. :cool:

disneyjoe7

Sorry I was back from waving my American Flag.

VR3

I always liked seeing the dudes that drive around in a toyota... American Flag about 6' off the truck on one side and the rebel flag 6' off the truck on the other.

Then again, I live in North Carolina and this makes PEFFECT sense.

disneyjoe7

Does anyone know how to bolt a 2.8L Chevy V6 head to a Toyota Block? Bolts don't seem to add up???????? Duct tape? JB weld? Maybe a little of both?


F'k it.... It's just a Chevy something hell if I get 10k out of it I should be happy right.

disneyjoe7

Trey,

You know NC is more "South" then Florida right?

VR3

Dude, North Carolina is way more South than Flordia.

Now a lil West to brotha is some Good Ol Southern Comfort.

disneyjoe7

Don't you know it

VR3

fatchowmein

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »

Man dies of excessive urination. More at 11.

TroyD

rskarvan wrote: »

What about the $1500 per vehicle economic trade-benefit that goes to Asia because of unfair currency manipulations? What about the fact the big three are supporting more retireee's than active workers and the Toyota's/Honda's/Hyundai's don't have to address this issue? What about the fact that all these new foreign assembly plants pay ZERO property tax because of the huge tax abatements that were given to them to locate to the state? What about the fact that these companies are mostly located in the south where it is historically difficult for labor to organize (for any industry). What about the fact that all the profits from the foreign companies go directly to their home country? Lastly, what about the fact that my Grandfather fought in combat in WWII because Japan surprise attacked Pearl Harbor?

I'd like for Ron to expound on the unfair currency manipulations because that's absolute HOGWASH. The dollar/yen fluctuates, it always has.

As far as the big three supporting retirees, sounds like the big three **** themselves while the UAW was applying the astroglide.

What about the fact that all these new foreign assembly plants pay ZERO property tax because of the huge tax abatements that were given to them to locate to the state?

Well, at least they are building plants HERE as opposed to, say, China. See, this is what REALLY pisses me off. You've got people bitching because jobs move overseas. OK, we've got someone building plants HERE and bitching because we had to lure them with tax incentives (do we REALLY want to start a discussion for the dickings the American taxpayer has taken over the years for the big three? Chrysler bailout??)....ok, then we **** because they don't like it that they aren't paying what they should. Sounds like the UAW is just PISSED because an auto manufacturer isn't bowing down and sucking thier wood.

What about the fact that these companies are mostly located in the south where it is historically difficult for labor to organize (for any industry).

Maybe people in the south think that an employer is entitled to pay what the market will allow. Maybe people in the south don't completely buy into the entitlement mentality.

What about the fact that all the profits from the foreign companies go directly to their home country?

That's pure **** as well.

Lastly, what about the fact that my Grandfather fought in combat in WWII because Japan surprise attacked Pearl Harbor?

So did my grandfather. However, I don't believe he fought for the right for American companies to be insulated from competitive pressures (that, in my book, is Marxism). I also don't believe he fought so that American workers could be guaranteed 80K a year for menial tasks with full benefits for life.

It's a crock of ****. The entitlement mentality that seems to prevail, really makes me wonder.

The American auto industry has screwed itself through incompetence. YEARS of ****, unreliable cars at exorbitant prices.......Don't wave a flag in my face saying that buying a Toyota is breaking allegiance with American industry or un-American. The American auto industry broke that trust YEARS ago, we owe them NOTHING.

BDT

sucks2beme

It's amazing to me that car companies can have a problem that can be ignored for years. Dodge Mini vans had crummy front disk brake calipers for years. The four speed transaxles were less than durable.
Ford Triton motors had problems with spark plugs ripping out of the aluminum heads(only 4 threads holding them in). This fix for the heads was easy, just a casting change, Yet it took 8 years for them to address it.
Toyota has had their screw ups too. The difference is they fix it in the first
6 months to a year so it doesn't become common enough to hurt their
reputation.
What Detroit needs is a grass roots return to racing. The heart of their
classic durable stuff was NASCAR, drag, etc. They had unbreakable engines, durable transmissions, and stout rear ends. The problems with quality back then were prodution related. Most of what we see now in failures are design related. If reports come in of a common failure, beef it up!!!
None of the big three do enough failure analysis.

bobman1235

Great post, BDT.

Demiurge

One of GM's biggest problem is it's pension plans that are coming back to bite them in the ****. The worst thing that Toyota could do would be to buy GM as they would inherit that problem.

Anyhow, beyond the sales, this was inevitable.

AsSiMiLaTeD

This is one of the best posts I've read since I've been here, very well put as usual...

TroyD wrote: »

I'd like for Ron to expound on the unfair currency manipulations because that's absolute HOGWASH. The dollar/yen fluctuates, it always has.

As far as the big three supporting retirees, sounds like the big three **** themselves while the UAW was applying the astroglide.



Well, at least they are building plants HERE as opposed to, say, China. See, this is what REALLY pisses me off. You've got people bitching because jobs move overseas. OK, we've got someone building plants HERE and bitching because we had to lure them with tax incentives (do we REALLY want to start a discussion for the dickings the American taxpayer has taken over the years for the big three? Chrysler bailout??)....ok, then we **** because they don't like it that they aren't paying what they should. Sounds like the UAW is just PISSED because an auto manufacturer isn't bowing down and sucking thier wood.



Maybe people in the south think that an employer is entitled to pay what the market will allow. Maybe people in the south don't completely buy into the entitlement mentality.



That's pure **** as well.



So did my grandfather. However, I don't believe he fought for the right for American companies to be insulated from competitive pressures (that, in my book, is Marxism). I also don't believe he fought so that American workers could be guaranteed 80K a year for menial tasks with full benefits for life.

It's a crock of ****. The entitlement mentality that seems to prevail, really makes me wonder.

The American auto industry has screwed itself through incompetence. YEARS of ****, unreliable cars at exorbitant prices.......Don't wave a flag in my face saying that buying a Toyota is breaking allegiance with American industry or un-American. The American auto industry broke that trust YEARS ago, we owe them NOTHING.

BDT

jdhdiggs

Cheers Troy, I'll tip a glass to you again my friend. Well stated! Glad to see someone still has the true American spirit and fight running through their veigns!

venomclan

Great points Troy. I find it interesting that people hold the U.S. auto industry as the last straw. I mean who here can say that all their gear is U.S. made? No one. Have t.v. in your ht? It is japanese or other foreign make.

That brand new Chevy HHR, Camaro, Pontiac G6, G8, Ford Fusion, Edge, Chrysler PT Cruiser and many more - all made overseas.

There are many reasons the U.S. auto industry are failing, and everyone is still pointing fingers at the other guy. If GM did not drop the ball again and again, their other problems would have been minimized and market share much higher. They punched holes in their own armor and expect everyone else to keep patching them up with American Flag band aides.
v

TroyD

It makes my blood boil, I've spent a lot of time in **** places....and for someone to tell me that I need to buy an American car so some ****(s) popping rivets in Detroit can send his kids to an Ivy League school and afford the lake house then get iron clad retirement benefits?

Horseshit. I will do everything I can to NOT support the UAW and the big three. They broke the trust, the burden of winning my/our loyalty rests with them.

Venom, good post. See, I've never bought the 'buy American at all costs' BS. I believe in competition and free markets. THAT is what made America. Not medocrity at exorbitant prices. I believe we, the US, CAN compete and kick everyones **** doing it. Now, the question is, WILL, we do it? Not if we want to sit around and whine and piss and moan about it. Changes are required. Premium prices for mediocre products ain't cutting it.

BDT