Pretty Pictures from two Sony DVD Players: NS9100ES and S9000ES

DarqueKnight

Introduction

I replaced the Sony DVP-S9000ES DVD player in my home theater system with a Sony DVP-NS9100ES in February of this year. I really wasn’t in the market for a new DVD player, but I had been reading such good things about the Sony that when I ran across a good deal on some overstock, I went for it. I am not quite ready to go headlong into HD or Blu-Ray. I’ll sit tight and wait to see who wins. In the mean time, while the hi-def DVD warriors are slugging it out, the better resolution and upsampling capabilities of the DVP-NS9100ES will be sufficient.

Specifications/Features

DVP-S9000ES DVD/CD/SACD Player
MSRP: $1500 when introduced, $1200 last year of production.
Weight: 27.25 pounds.
Digital Outputs: Coaxial, Optical.
Analog Outputs: Audio, Video, Component Video, S-Video.
Media: DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-R/Video CD. Will not play CD-R

DVP-NS9100ES DVD/CD/SACD Player
MSRP: $1300
Weight: 22 pounds.
Digital Outputs: Coaxial, Optical, High Definition Mutimedia Interface (HDMI) .
Analog Outputs: 2 Channel Audio, Video, Component Video, S-Video, 5.1 Channel Audio
Media: DVD/CD/CD-R/SACD/DVD-R/Video CD.

Hmmmm….the NS9100ES is nearly six pounds lighter than the S9000ES. I wonder what they left out?

First Impressions

I purchased the DVP-S9000ES as a dealer demo in 2001, a few months before it was discontinued in 2002. Before that, I had a DVP-S7700, which I still have and use in a guest bedroom system. I liked the S9000ES so much that I subsequently purchased two used units off Audiogon. The S9000ES was a benchmark product at its introduction and still “holds its own” against newer players that have upsampling capability and HDMI output. Morever it is a very popular platform for modification. Indeed, when I first installed the NS9100ES, I was somewhat underwhelmed. I struggled to see a significant difference in picture quality between it and the S9000ES, but that was just going on visual memory. As far as tactile impressions, the S9000ES, with its sleek, jewel-like fascia, has much, much better build quality and cosmetics than the NS9100ES. Fortunately, the NS9100ES will spend its life behind the metal mesh door of my HT equipment cabinet, where I don’t have to look at its face (see stock photos of the two units below).

Equipment

1.Hitachi 55HDT52 HDTV Plasma TV, 1366 x 768 native resolution.
2.DVP-NS9100ES DVD Player connected to TV with Audio Research HDMI cable and Monster Cable Video 2CV Component Video Cable.
3.DVP-S9000ES DVD Player connected to TV with Monster Cable Video 2CV Component Video Cable.
4. Signal Cable Analog Audio Cables.
5. Video Software: Two copies of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith*, Layer Cake, Mission Impossible 3, Short Cuts (Criterion Collection), and Terminator 2.

*I rented another copy of SW: RotS so that I could do A/B comparisons between both DVD players using the same disc. I did play both discs in each player to verify that there was no discernable visual or audio differences between them.

This evaluation was done three weeks post purchase, after the NS9100ES had approximately 75 hours of analog audio playback and approximately 30 hours of DVD playback. The Hitachi plasma television was calibrated using the Avia calibration DVD. For A/B testing, each DVD player was attached to a different input and the display was switched between them.

Video Performance

Case 1: NS9100ES Component Video Outputs (480p) vs. S9000ES Component Video Outputs (480p)

An overemphasis on red (red push) was evident on both players. Surprisingly, the S9000ES had a sharper, more detailed picture. This is evident in the low resolution pictures below and even more evident in direct viewing. Looking at pictures 1 (NS9100ES) and 2 (S9000ES) taken from the Revenge of the Sith DVD, more details can be in Chancellor Palpatine’s hair and robe (person on the right) and in Mace Windu’s robes and facial features. The S9000ES also resolves more shadow details and has a slightly brighter picture. The NS9100ES has less red push. The red push from both players could have been compensated for by the television’s color controls. I wonder if Sony overemphasized red in the component video outputs in order to add “warmth” to the picture. This is an effect that some people find visually pleasing. Fuji Film Corporation does the same thing with some of their color films.

Case 2: NS9100ES HDMI (720p) vs. S9000ES Component Video Outputs (480p)

The NS9100’s red push went away (picture 3). The NS9100ES through the HDMI output produced a noticeably smoother, sharper, clearer picture with more accurate and natural colors, although that was not adequately captured by the low resolution pictures shown here. The HDMI output had better shadow details and blacker blacks.

Fortunately, I bought the NS9100ES for its digital video (HDMI) output capability, so the component video beat down from the S9000ES wasn’t (too) disappointing. By the way, earlier S9000ES had a “chroma bug” problem wherein pixilation or blocky details could occur in the picture. None of the three S9000ES’s I own have ever exhibited this problem. There were also some power supply issues with some earlier units. All three of my S9000ES’s came from late in its production run and I have never had any problems with any of them.

Both the NS9100ES and the S9000ES benefited from replacing the stock power cords with 10 AWG Signal Cable MagicPower cords. On both players, more bass slam, a lower noise floor, and crisper, clearer dialog was heard from both music and movies. However, more of an improvement was heard with the S9000ES. I’ll discuss that later. I initially tried Signal Cable 12 AWG Digital Reference cords with my S9000ES’s. They provided substantial improvements, but the MagicPower cords were better still. I didn’t see any improvement in video quality with either player using the MagicPower cords. Using the MagicPower cord on my plasma television did result in a noticeably clearer picture.

The NS9100ES has more video bells and wistles than the S9000ES, but you pay for that with diminished audio performance.

Audio Performance

I needed to do an A/B comparison to fully realize the extent of differences in video performance between the two players. However, it was immediately apparent that the S9000ES is the better performer when it comes to analog audio. Whereas the S9000ES was a serious effort at high performance audio and video, the NS9100ES is strictly a home theater piece. On CD and SACD music, the lush, full, slamming bass and overall sonic detail of the S9000ES is merely approximated by the NS9100ES. Don’t get me wrong, the analog outputs of the NS9100ES sound “good”, but only good in an upper midfi-ish kind of way. When I first installed the NS9100ES, music through the analog audio outputs was not very enjoyable. After approximately 75 hours of run in, it is listenable now.

On movies, I can not discern much of a difference in sound quality between the two players. The only difference I hear is in the high frequencies. For example, in the scene near the beginning of Terminator 2, where the Terminator is walking up the bar’s front steps to swipe the shotgun out of the bar owner’s hands, the “scrunching” sound of the Terminator’s leather pants is clearer with the S9000ES. The NS9100 blurs some of that sonic detail. I didn’t expect to hear a much of difference because the audio from each player was taken from the transport by coaxial digital cable straight in to a Sony TA-E9000ES preamp/processor. Apparently, transport build quality can and does make a sonic difference.;) When comparing music played through the digital coaxial outputs, The S9000ES again has slightly more high frequency detail.

Before I popped the top of the NS9100ES, I was reasonably sure (afraid) of what I would find: cheap generic parts in the audio chain and a wimpy power supply. Regrettably, my prediction was right on the money. I felt such bitter shame upon removing the case top of the NS9100ES. Why Sony…why? Whereas the S9000ES features a HUGE power supply with large premium audio grade Nichicon and Elna capacitors, high quality film and electrolytic capacitors in the audio chain, separate large transformers for the audio and video power supplies , extensive copper shielding, and a heavy metal and polycarbonate transport, the 9100 uses smaller, cost reduced transformers (although there are separate transformers for audio and video power supplies), wimpy tiny generic capacitors everywhere, a cheap plastic transport, and no big badass filter capacitors in the power supply.

Every square inch of the S9000ES’s interior is crammed with high quality parts with circuit boards piled on top of each other in layers. On the other hand, the NS9100 managed to fit everything in with a little room to spare (upper right corner of picture 6). The S9100ES runs a little hot, thus the need for extensive ventilation slots in the sides, rear, and bottom of the case. Sony placed mesh dust filters behind the slots to keep everything inside dust free. Nice touch. There are no ventilation slots in the NS9100’s case. However, none are needed.

Conclusion

In my opinion, the DVP-NS9100ES is a great performer for DVD playback only (which is all mine will be used for). If you need a player DVD player that can also double as a good 2 channel music player, I would advise looking elsewhere. I wish Sony would have just added HDMI and 5.1 analog outputs to the DVP-S9000ES platform and kept on moving. I really, really like my DVP-S9000ES's.:)

Pictures

1. DVP-NS9100ES screen capture, component video output.
2. DVP-S9000ES screen capture, component video output.
3. DVP-NS9100ES screen capture, HDMI output.
4. DVP-NS9100ES front view.
5. DVP-S9000ES front view.
6. DVP-NS9100ES inside view.
7. DVP-S9000ES inside view.

Sherardp

I read that with mods the 9100es can be a great cd player, I love the build quality of the ES line up. I was in the market last week for a CDp and was so close to ordering a ES from Sony, I opted for a Marantz CC4001. I think that after being on this forum and others, my Sony days are soon to be gone. Nice write up, try modding the player and see how you like it

DarqueKnight

If I decide to keep the NS9100ES I might do a master clock and power supply upgrade. Prior to purchase, I had read reports that the 2 channel audio performance of this player was mediocre, but I was still surprised by how much Sony skimped on the audio parts quality, especially considering this is an "Elevated Standard" (ES) player. It appears that what Confuscious said over 2000 years ago is still true today: "Sony ES ain't what it used to be."

Jazzdrummer

Your impressions of the Sony DVP-S9000ES are right on. I've had one in my rack since 2000 and not once have I been tempted to "upgrade" to an upscaling DVD player. In fact, I recommend the Sony DVP-S9000ES as a reference CD transport alone (the video stage can be disengaged using the remote). In addition, it WILL play back CD-R if you use high quality CD-R discs intended for music. I use the Memorex MUSIC CD-R and it plays in the Sony DVP-S9000ES without any problems. Even when I go HD next year, the 9000es will stay in my rack for music only duty. I haven't seen a DVD player with the same level of OEM build quality since. This product is one of the rare cases where Sony got all right.

DarqueKnight

Thanks for the tip on the Memorex Music CD-R's. I also accidentally found out that CompUSA brand CD-R's will play in the S9000ES, but there will be some background noise. I will try the Memorex Music CD-R discs.

Rather than rip off the public by putting mass market electronic components in an "ES" case, it would have been more honest of Sony to just make the 9100ES a stand alone DVD player (without all the CD/SACD circuitry) and use ES quality parts or to just drop the ES designation if they wanted to offer a multiformat player with mediocre parts and build quality.

After Sherardp mentioned modding the player, I went to www.referenceaudiomods.com to see what mods they recommended. I was amused to find that they offer a complete analog output stage rebuild for $800 bucks. I believe that expensive mods are justified only if there is already good design and build quality in other areas. The 9100ES uses a cheap plastic transport and a thin metal case with no vibration damping. So sad. If this is what Sony's current ES line has deteriorated to, I hate to think what their "regular" gear is like. A French word that rhymes with "beard" comes to mind.

Jazzdrummer

You mentioned that you owned the DVP S7700 just prior to stepping up to the 9000ES. I almost went the same route but instead purchased the DVP S300 which now services my two-channel bedroom system.

It looks like Sony has no plans to roll out a reference grade HD player to follow its first gen model (BDP-S1). That player got mixed reviews and worse than the 9000ES, doesn't playback CDs in any format. I wish that Sony would consider developing the BDP-S1 in the same way it evolved the the 7000 series platform into the 9000ES. Unfortunately, it looks like Sony will instead focus on marketing a more cost conscious blue ray player this fall at around a $600 or better price point. I don't oppose this strategy, but this is more evidence that Sony has given up reaching for the brass ring, at least in audio playback.

One of my biggest regrets is that we increasingly live in a world dictated by MP3 and other compressed audio formats that are causing high fidelity to take a back seat to these less costly options. I wonder if the average person truely understands or even cares about what they are missing when they choose these formats that produce lower fidelity listening experiences.

My two cents.

DarqueKnight

Jazzdrummer wrote:

I wonder if the average person truely understands or even cares about what they are missing when they choose these formats that produce lower fidelity listening experiences.

No. They don't.

Holydoc

DarqueKnight wrote:

Video Performance

Case 1: NS9100ES Component Video Outputs (480p) vs. S9000ES Component Video Outputs (480p)

An overemphasis on red (red push) was evident on both players. Surprisingly, the S9000ES had a sharper, more detailed picture. This is evident in the low resolution pictures below and even more evident in direct viewing. Looking at pictures 1 (NS9100ES) and 2 (S9000ES) taken from the Revenge of the Sith DVD, more details can be in Chancellor Palpatine’s hair and robe (person on the right) and in Mace Windu’s robes and facial features. The S9000ES also resolves more shadow details and has a slightly brighter picture. The NS9100ES has less red push. The red push from both players could have been compensated for by the television’s color controls. I wonder if Sony overemphasized red in the component video outputs in order to add “warmth” to the picture. This is an effect that some people find visually pleasing. Fuji Film Corporation does the same thing with some of their color films.

Case 2: NS9100ES HDMI (720p) vs. S9000ES Component Video Outputs (480p)

The NS9100’s red push went away (picture 3). The NS9100ES through the HDMI output produced a noticeably smoother, sharper, clearer picture with more accurate and natural colors, although that was not adequately captured by the low resolution pictures shown here. The HDMI output had better shadow details and blacker blacks.

Something that caught my eye that I thought was a bit peculiar was the center column in the background of all three screen captures. If you look at the dominant vertical lines caused by scanning, the lines run from Right-to-Left with the component hookup of the NS9100. However using the HDMI hookup for the NS9100 or the component S9000, the lines run from Left-to-Right.

Since everything is exactly the same except for the hook-ups, it would appear that the NS9100 HDMI hook-up and the S9000 are probably reproducing closer to the original (i.e., the majority wins).

Still wonder about the red push. Was the TV calibrated using AVIA with HDMI hookups to the transport or component?

DarqueKnight

I see what you mean by the shift in vertical line orientation. This is caused by compression artifacts from shrinking the pictures from over 2.1 megs to approximately 177 K. When I look at the three original pictures which are over 2.1 megs in size, the vertical lines are oriented in the same direction.

The TV was calibrated with Avia using the S9000. Recalibrating for the HDMI output is on my "to do" list.

Holydoc

Oh ok. So the artifacts are caused strictly from your compression routines. Ok, np. That definitely makes it a problem comparing posted pictures. But I truly liked your written review.

About the HDMI output, I was just concerned that the red push may actually become evident once the TV is calibrated using the HDMI connection. In other words, the connection may be causing the color shift and not necessarily the DVD encoding.

DarqueKnight

Jazzdrummer wrote:

In addition, it WILL play back CD-R if you use high quality CD-R discs intended for music. I use the Memorex MUSIC CD-R and it plays in the Sony DVP-S9000ES without any problems.

I tried a Memorex Music CD-R in each of my three DVP-S9000ES's. It wouldn't play in any of them. The burned disk did play in my other CD players.

Maybe your S9000ES has a different laser assembly.

jakelm

Thanks DK for the very nice write up.

Just to clear this up for me. The plad (checkered) artifacts in the images are not from the player or the tv? But are from the compression of the photo?

DarqueKnight

I calibrated the NS9100ES's HDMI outputs with Avia. The three pictures shown are:

1. The uncalibrated NS9100ES HDMI output (using the calibration settings for the S9000ES).

2. The calibrated NS9100ES HDMI output.

3. The NS9100ES component outputs (using the calibration settings for the HDMI output).

Holydoc

Noticed that with the HDMI now calibrated you get the same red push you got before. That confirms my suspicion.

Quite a brightness difference between the HDMI calibrated and the component output. Noticed that the component output stayed calibrated with the previous pictures you took.

Do not understand the brightness difference between the two if you calibrated though. That should of not been a factor.

DarqueKnight

jakelm wrote:

Thanks DK for the very nice write up.

Just to clear this up for me. The plad (checkered) artifacts in the images are not from the player or the tv? But are from the compression of the photo?

That is correct.

Look at the second picture in the post above. You will notice that is has a much smoother appearance than the 1st and 3rd pictures. The 1st and 3rd pictures were originally 2 MB files of dimension 3488 x 2616 pixels and compressed down to a size of 1024 x 768 pixels with file sizes 222 KB and 266 KB respectively. The 2nd picture was orginally a 5 MB file of 3488 x 2616 pixels and was compressed down to 1024 x 768 pixels and a file size of 228 KB.

DarqueKnight

Holydoc wrote:

Do not understand the brightness difference between the two if you calibrated though. That should of not been a factor.

It is a factor because each of the component and HDMI outputs send a different signal to the TV. The difference in brightness may not be so apparent once (if) I calibrate the component input. What you are seeing is the component output using the HDMI output's settings. The settings of each of the TV's inputs can be calibrated separately.

Also, the digital camera I am using exaggerates the difference in brightness between the two outputs.

Holydoc

Darque,

What I was looking at was the HDMI calibrated picture and your original component calibrated picture. But you are right it may just be your camera.

So what is your conclusion on the different hook-ups? Which do you prefer and why? After all you are seeing them with your own eyes and we are trying to judge looking at compressed pictures of compressed pictures.

DarqueKnight

I prefer the HDMI output because it produces a more detailed picture overall and has better shadow detail than the component output.

I turned of the TV's black enhancement feature (enhances shadow detail in dark scenes) because the HDMI output did not need it. Turning off black enhancement resulted in a brighter HDMI picture, but still not as bright as the component picture. The pictures shown previously in this thread had black enhancement turned on.

As usual, I had to back off from Avia's recommended color setting. With my former CRT based rear projection TV's, the best color was achieved by setting according to Avia's recommendations. With my plasma and LCD TV's, I have always had to back off from Avia's recommended color settings or the picture would contain too much red.

The final settings are as follows:

Contrast (White Level): 56/100
Brightness (Black Level): 45/100
Sharpness: 37/100
Color (Saturation): 41/100 (Avia recommended 46/100)
Tint (Hue): 32/100
Color Temperature: Medium
Black Enhancement: Off
Noise Reduction: Off

The pictures below are compressed images of high resolution pictures taken with a digital camera and at the TV's final calibration settings. Some picture sharpness was lost due to the fact that the DVD player was paused, which causes a softening of the picture in most consumer grade DVD players.

Holydoc

Much better picture with the black enhancement off. I assume you were sending 480p coding through your transport via HDMI. I am not sure if the 9100 can upconvert, but it would be interesting to see how it does with 720p and 1080i.

Thanks for the write-up. I think you have a good setting on the picture now.

DarqueKnight

The NS9100 upconverts to 720p and 1080i (see "video performance" section of my first post above). The HDMI picture is 720p.

The upscaled 1080i picture is a little softer than the upscaled 720p picture. 1081i is above the native resolution of my TV, so it scales a 1080i picture down to 720p. Therefore, when watching a 1080i picture from the NS9100, the 480p picture is upscaled to 1080i and sent to the plasma TV. The TV then takes the 1080i signal and down converts it to 720p. After all that, you can see where I might lose some information.

Watching 1080i HDTV broadcasts whose content was captured by high definition cameras and downscaled to 720p produces a viewing experiece almost as good as looking through a window at a live scene.

SCompRacer

Sherardp wrote:

I read that with mods the 9100es can be a great cd player....

I only have experience with the ModWright Sony 9100ES and it is an outstanding redbook/SACD player.

DarqueKnight wrote:

I was amused to find...

If that amused you, this http://www.modwright.com/products/index.php?product_id=23 ought to really send you.

I agree they have cheapened the 9100ES, but I don't regret choosing the ModWright Sony with tube rectified PS due to the sonics it provides over heavier built, big names I have demo'd.

DarqueKnight

Amusing indeed.

Huck344

Kind of off topic, but is $450 a good price for a used DVP-S9000ES that is in 9/10 condition? A trustworthy store that I frequent is selling one.

DarqueKnight

Yes, unmodified S9000ES's have been recently selling in the $400 to $500 range on eBay and Audiogon.com.

SCompRacer

Relief here.

halo

Huck344 wrote:

Kind of off topic, but is $450 a good price for a used DVP-S9000ES that is in 9/10 condition? A trustworthy store that I frequent is selling one.

Here's one for $275: LINK

There are several available on Audiogon - I'd imagine you wouldn't / shouldn't have to pay more than $350 shipped with a little negotiation.

Good luck!

DarqueKnight

That S9000ES in your link is in 6/10 condition. Huck344 had asked about one in 9/10 condition.

halo

I did say there were several available, no?

LINK

The rest that are listed are in 8/10.

halo

OR...

Brand new NS9100ES for $589 instead LINK

Huck344

Thanks. I wasn't sure if it was too much or not!