Myth of break in period for speakers

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  • sickicw
    sickicw Posts: 456
    edited November 2006
    just thought i would post my experience...

    For the rti speakers, i couldnt tell any difference. With the lsi speakers, there is a big difference after break in.
    Speakers: LSi9 x 2, LSic, LSiFX x 2, Velodyne HGS-15
    Amps & Power: Rockford Fosgate T8004 x 3, Cascade Audio APS-55 power supplies x 5, and 1 farad capacitor.
    Electronics: Denon 3806, Toshiba HD-A1, & Sony KDL46XBR2
    Accessories: Anti-IC interconnects, 8 Mondo Traps from Realtraps, and Salamander furniture.
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  • dmk_187
    dmk_187 Posts: 25
    edited November 2006
    breaking in speakers is also more along the acr audio line also. your subs need to be played for a little time on lower volume to help lossen them up and get the voice coils adjusted. go throw a true 500w to a 500w max sub and you'll lift the cone right out of the basket. do the same thing to a sub that has some play time on it, and it'll take a little while of the max wattage to blow the speaker out. just my .02. i just like breaking things in general.....i think I'm gonna go kick a hole in my rti10's woofers now......and the psw505.........and my wife's head if she yells for me one more time while i'm typing.....
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  • wirebill
    wirebill Posts: 63
    edited November 2006
    ....
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,586
    edited November 2006
    wirebill wrote:
    I can't believe that some of you guys think that speakers don't need to be broken in. Rubber surrounds will loosen up and allow the cones to vibrate easier.
    If you held the cones with your hands so they could not vibrate as much, don't you think that would affect the sound?

    You can think what you can think but I have not heard burn in and I dont necessarily believe in it. Burn in probably is true, but according to what I have read, it seems to be a very short term thing.... burn in occurs during initial warm up and then returns back to baseline when you stop the speakers.. then burn in again the next time you turn it on.

    Rubber surrounds or not, unless you have objective data that shows an increase/decrease in compliance of the rubber, you're purely speaking out your own theory.

    I'm not trying to persuade anyone one way or another, because it's pointless and doesnt serve me anything.
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • sickicw
    sickicw Posts: 456
    edited November 2006
    Joey_V wrote:
    unless you have objective data that shows an increase/decrease in compliance of the rubber, you're purely speaking out your own theory.

    And who is going to spend the time and money to come up with this data for every example? Do you need data when a shoe manufacture tells you to break in their new shoes before the big game, or do you just do it because it is common knowledge that some types of shoes give you blisters if you don’t? It is pretty commonly known that the lsi speakers sound like crap until about 100 hours. So if anyone wants to demo the lsi speakers, they should be properly broken in first.
    Speakers: LSi9 x 2, LSic, LSiFX x 2, Velodyne HGS-15
    Amps & Power: Rockford Fosgate T8004 x 3, Cascade Audio APS-55 power supplies x 5, and 1 farad capacitor.
    Electronics: Denon 3806, Toshiba HD-A1, & Sony KDL46XBR2
    Accessories: Anti-IC interconnects, 8 Mondo Traps from Realtraps, and Salamander furniture.
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  • wirebill
    wirebill Posts: 63
    edited November 2006
    ....
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  • wirebill
    wirebill Posts: 63
    edited November 2006
    I had an old pair of Ohm C2's that I had bought new in the early 70's. After many years of use the surrounds had rotted out. I had new surrounds put on the speakers at a local electronics repair center. When I brought the speakers home and hooked them back up I was very disappointed in the sound. The bass that I had always enjoyed just was not there anymore. I told my wife that I would be looking for a new pair of speakers because these just weren’t doing it for me anymore. My wife continued to play them for the next few days while I was at work. That weekend I listened to them and could not believe the difference in the sound. The bass was back and the speakers sounded as good as I had always remembered. I then started to ask a few audiophiles that I know and was told about speakers needing to be broken in. I don’t have data to back up my claim, but nothing will ever change my mind.
    I also found that the Polk Lsi9’s that I had sounded better after a couple of weeks of breaking them in. I even posted that here about 18 months ago. The Polks sounded too boomy to me at first, but got much better as time went on.
    I’m not saying that this is the case with all speakers, but I know what I found with mine.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,586
    edited November 2006
    sickicw wrote:
    And who is going to spend the time and money to come up with this data for every example? Do you need data when a shoe manufacture tells you to break in their new shoes before the big game, or do you just do it because it is common knowledge that some types of shoes give you blisters if you don’t? It is pretty commonly known that the lsi speakers sound like crap until about 100 hours. So if anyone wants to demo the lsi speakers, they should be properly broken in first.

    Who came up with the figures in the study that was done in the early pages of this thread? The question of whether one is able to a study is not in question, the question is whether whatever minimal change in the driver surround is enough to allow for the laxity that influences exactly how quickly the driver stops when signal is cut and whether this translates to an audible difference.

    And let me tell you that it's not common knowledge that LSi sound like crap first out of the box. If you think you heard a difference with the LSi, fine. I've had multiple LSi speakers and they did not change any for me. Brand new LSi next to ones (side by side) that I've used for months and no difference that is of any note to me.

    YET, to me, the LSi sounded better as time progressed, but when compared head on with a brand new pair, there was no difference and I couldnt tell which was the older pair based on sound.

    Joey
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited November 2006
    Man, if you really want to get in a debate just chime in on other forums about "Do all amps sound the same". This debate is a walk in the park compared to that one. As far as my thoughts, yep without a doubt MY speakers changed quite noticeably in a short time. The bass tamed down & became focused & dead on. As far as your speakers go, well that's your call. I just balk at guys that need studies, A/B/X testing to try to prove something. Use what God gave you, your EARS!!!
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited November 2006
    All amps sound the same ?! ... LOL ... Yeah all speakers too ...
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,586
    edited November 2006
    pearsall001 wrote:
    Man, if you really want to get in a debate just chime in on other forums about "Do all amps sound the same". This debate is a walk in the park compared to that one. As far as my thoughts, yep without a doubt MY speakers changed quite noticeably in a short time. The bass tamed down & became focused & dead on. As far as your speakers go, well that's your call. I just balk at guys that need studies, A/B/X testing to try to prove something. Use what God gave you, your EARS!!!

    That's fine by you, but to me... I've been proven wrong thrice with brand new speakers right next to speakers that I "thought" burnt in.

    You can search for my posts and I said in them basically that "wow... these LSi9 are sounding better and better with time...." or ".... at first these Axioms sounded bright, but now they've sweetened out..."

    Yet, the three times I got brand new speakers (LSi9, LSi7, and Axiom M22), I put them side by side and there wasnt enough difference that I could tell which was the broken in one and which wasnt.

    You can claim that you dont need ABX or blah blah blah.... but until you get new speakers in your room right next to your broken in ones, your opinion is as good as mine was.... and I thought they broke in.

    Joey
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,586
    edited November 2006
    PolkWannabie wrote:
    All amps sound the same ?! ... LOL ... Yeah all speakers too ...
    :):p;)
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,093
    edited November 2006
    Joey_V wrote:
    That's fine by you, but to me... I've been proven wrong thrice with brand new speakers right next to speakers that I "thought" burnt in.

    You can search for my posts and I said in them basically that "wow... these LSi9 are sounding better and better with time...." or ".... at first these Axioms sounded bright, but now they've sweetened out..."

    Yet, the three times I got brand new speakers (LSi9, LSi7, and Axiom M22), I put them side by side and there wasnt enough difference that I could tell which was the broken in one and which wasnt.

    You can claim that you dont need ABX or blah blah blah.... but until you get new speakers in your room right next to your broken in ones, your opinion is as good as mine was.... and I thought they broke in.

    Joey

    As long as your happy with the sound, none of this really matters. But if you really want to start a street fight, I dare you to fire up the "All amps sound the same" dabate. Come on, I dare you!!!
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • PolkWannabie
    PolkWannabie Posts: 2,763
    edited November 2006
    I don't know about amps ... but all sources sound the same ... ;)
    Rick
    HT+ Sunfire TG IV, Dual CG Sig II's, CinePro 1K2, Oppo 981, Audio Technica PL120, Polk SRT's & F/X1000's, Samsung 71" DLP
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,586
    edited November 2006
    Actually Bose, Polk, Martin Logan, Wilson.. they all sound the same. :)

    All wire sound the same, too. :p
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • Ferres
    Ferres Posts: 310
    edited November 2006
    lol! :D
    Gear: Rotel RC 1082, Rotel RSP 1068 pre/pro, Rotel RMB1077 amp, Cayin CDT 15a CD player, S301 bluray.

    Speakers: Tannoy DC sensys speakers, Paradigm Servo15 Sub, Velo Spl-1500r

    Conditioner: Isotek :D
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited December 2006
    I've resigned myself to listening to the music in my head, but my brain still needs to burn-in.

    Speaker break-in is not a myth.
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2006
    I believe CP covered the amp thing about five years ago. We are progressive.

    If aging has effect on matter
    and speakers are formed of matter
    then aging has effect on speakers


    Be careful when playing in the fast lane of the Highway.

    RT1
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2006
    When driver break-in reaches its inevitable final end the driver is broken at which time the circle of driver break-in life is renewed.

    Believe it or not.

    RT1
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  • MSALLA
    MSALLA Posts: 1,602
    edited December 2006
    Someone kill this thread.
    Michael


    Samsung 50" HD DLP
    Yamaha RX-V2500
    (2) Outlaw 200
    Adcom GFA 555
    Sony BDP300
    Denon 2900 DVD
    Lsi9's mains
    Lsi7's rear
    Lsic center
    12.1 SVS driver in 4.53 cuft. tube
    Harmony 880
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited December 2006
    You can't kill what is already dead. You know that.


    And besides, RT's making some stellar points so now's the time to get your learn on.
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited December 2006
    Okay I give! You guys are right. Break-in is not a myth...




























    It's not real, but definitely not a myth.:D
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited December 2006
    Frank....
    When Johnny Speakerspeed made his legendary journey across this great land of ours dispersing millions upon millions of rigs -- east to west to south to north, he warned us that his seeds would need at least 100 hours of break-in/growing/maturation time.

    To eat the fruit prematurely would not only be distasteful, but quite possibly poisonous.
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited December 2006
    One of the most evil things to do is put a penny in a round room and then tell someone they can find it in the corner.

    yes it is germain

    RT1
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited December 2006
    Someone said speaker break-in couldn't be measured....

    http://www.affordableaudio.org/aa2006-12.pdf

    Given this thread, there is a timely article beginning on page 11 of the December Issue of Affordable Audio. Danny Richie of GR-Research goes through a series of measurements of brand new drivers showing the measurable changes that occur over time and what his methodology was. His measurements demonstrate the physical changes in the drivers as well as changes in sonic measurements. He also has quotes from Dan Wiggins of Adire Audio as to what part of the speaker/driver changes and what the measurments show. Finally he quotes Paul Roth of Credence Speakers Inc.
    At any rate, excepting the tests run right after the break-in, where I question the numbers, esp. Mms, your data looks ok to me & consistent with THOUSANDS of measurements I have done. Anyone who thinks a woofer's parameters don't change due to break-in / burnin is either ignoring the data, has lousy data, or is not doing much of a break-in. Granted that the effect on the in-box measured curve, due to break-in / burn-in, may or may not be significant, depending on the box.
    Danny Richie noted the controversy as well.....
    Recently there has been some debate regarding speaker burn in. Some even go so far as to not only question this reality but to even refute it.
    Still there are those who claim that it is the listener that does the burning in as one gets used to the sound.
    Since this woofer was first pulled from the box the Fs has dropped by over 6Hz. Vas has increased by over 4 liters, and the Qts has dropped from .3581 to .3141.

    Now I wonder if the woofer burned in or if it was my test equipment?
    I'm sure some will continue to question the validity of speaker break-in, but evidently there is more SCIENCE involved than just perception.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited December 2006
    whad I myth ?!!



    like a fine wine (not whine), speakers get more mellow with age...
    It has been my experience that after a few hundred hours, speakers, and amps alike, settle in and the harshness fades away...cables too..!!

    maybe it`s the heat (friction) that makes the tight tolerences relax...

    I believe most everything needs time to break in and form it`s own synergy

    just my dos pesos...
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited December 2006
    Common known facts....

    Speakers need to break in.
    The earth is the center of the universe.
    The world is flat.
    Women marry for love.
    Bush is a great President.
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  • Joey_V
    Joey_V Posts: 8,586
    edited December 2006
    This thread is so dead. Speaker break in for me is a myth... but for the rest of you believers out there, believe on! If it enhances your experience, so be it. My experience has shown me that it's my ears getting accustomed to the sound and if the speakers are indeed "breaking in", it's not enough for me to distinguish from new when side by side.

    :)

    Joey
    Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
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  • solidclub
    solidclub Posts: 39
    edited December 2006
    I must say Im with the "break in" opinions.

    I find the same thing with valve guitar amps.
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  • zombie boy 2000
    zombie boy 2000 Posts: 6,641
    edited December 2006
    Joey_V wrote:
    This thread is so dead. Speaker break in for me is a myth... but for the rest of you believers out there, believe on! If it enhances your experience, so be it. My experience has shown me that it's my ears getting accustomed to the sound and if the speakers are indeed "breaking in", it's not enough for me to distinguish from new when side by side.

    :)

    Joey


    Damn I knew I was insane and that the worms were, indeed, eating into my brain...

    Maybe I'll let ya borrow my ears for a 30-day free At Home trial and we can share this madness together:D

    Skarv -- no need to politicize such a delicious and nutricious debate as speaker break-in:)
    I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore
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