New SDA top caps

Mike Reeter

When I recently picked up our pair of "perfect" 2.3 TL's,I discovered the tops were not soo "perfect"...No way to sand out the water ring being as the tops are veneered.

Well,after I got over being pissed off,I elected to have new caps made from solid Oak...After finishing and installing,I decided to do the same for a pair of 1C's (last pic)

I have always prefered the look of solid caps over veneer...

I can't take credit for making the new caps,but I did stain/finish and install them...This small tweek has given the SDA's a new look for sure.

madmax

Very nice! I have a 1c I need to do the same to. It has a water ring but not nearly as dark as yours was. I love oak, so easy to get and work with.
madmax

Mike Reeter

You know,after this little facelift,I think they sound better:D

Ricardo

They look absolutely beautiful.

Don't forget to give those caps some brake in time

Mike Reeter

HTrookie wrote:

They look absolutely beautiful.

Don't forget to give those caps some brake in time

Have had the day off from work,and have been braken' in the new caps most of the day!!!

DarqueKnight

Mike Reeter wrote:

I have always prefered the look of solid caps over veneer...

Beautiful job. I prefer the look of solid caps over veneer also.

amulford

Me also. You just can't get that cohesive grain pattern with veneer.

Sweet look.

unc2701

How'd you get the old caps off?

F1nut

For future reference, the black ring or any black mark like that on wood can be easily removed without sanding it out, which won't work anyway. The black color comes from a reaction with the tannin (Tannic acid) in the wood usually caused by water or some other liquid. You start by stripping the finish off the wood, clean off the stripper residue with paint thinner, let dry and then apply generous amounts of Oxalic acid mixed with water. After it dries, you clean off the Oxalic acid residue by wiping with a clean wet cloth until all residue is gone. Be careful not to breath the fine white power as it will cause a massive sneezing fit. If one application doesn't do the trick, a second one will. Let the piece dry for a day or two, then lightly scuff sand with 220 grit serrated sandpaper to knock off the raised grain. Apply color and finish, rub out and you're done.

A few reasons why veneer is a better choice than solid wood. With veneer there won't be any end grain exposed, the left and right edges of those tops show end grain. With veneer you can book match the grain for the tops, so that they look the same. It's very hard to do that with solid wood. MDF veneered pieces will not warp, crack or check like solid wood. Solid wood never stops moving, up to a 1/4" annually. That is to say, in dry months the wood shrinks, in times of high humidity the wood swells. Veneered MDF is inert, solid wood resonates and each piece will resonate differently.

As I said, for future reference.....

DarqueKnight

F1nut wrote:

MDF veneered pieces will not warp, crack or check like solid wood. Solid wood never stops moving, up to a 1/4" annually. That is to say, in dry months the wood shrinks, in times of high humidity the wood swells. Veneered MDF is inert, solid wood resonates and each piece will resonate differently.

Exactly. Which is why Polk abandoned solid wood end caps for SDA's after the original SRS.

Mike Reeter

unc2701 wrote:

How'd you get the old caps off?

On the larger SDA's the caps are bolted on,you have to remove the top mid-drivers to reach up into the cabinet to reach the taps that hold the tops in place.

On the 1C's the caps are glued and stapled on,they are a little more difficult to remove,I used a construction adhesive to mount the replacements.

Mike Reeter

DarqueKnight wrote:

Exactly. Which is why Polk abandoned solid wood end caps for SDA's after the original SRS.

The original caps had more problems than just the water ring,small scratches,dings,etc.

I understand the concept of the wood vs. veneered mdf. It was less expensive to use all solid wood as opposed to buying an entire sheet of veneer.

It was simply easier to come up with solid oak than it would have been to find the proper density mdf plus veneer.

I had the cabinet shop install 3 biscuits in the glue joint in 21"...the joint itself will never come apart...with todays climate controlled living space,I'm not concerned about seperation

F1nut

I'm not trying to be a jerk about this, but just share some of my opinions and experiences from working with wood for longer than I care to remember. I see what works and what doesn't on a daily basis.

The original tops could have been reveneered. A heat gun and a putty knife would remove the veneer in minutes allowing the original MDF to be reused. New sheets of PSA oak veneer are pretty cheap these days and come in sizes as small as 2' x 2' for about $12.00.

Biscuits are one of the worst ways to join wood, a step above a butt joint because of the lack of surface area contact. Even with todays climate controlled living spaces, solid wood still moves. I'm not saying that yours are going to fall apart or whatever, just that there are better ways to do things for future reference.

VR3

I gotta agree with F1 on this one

Biscuit joints seem to have as much point to them as toasting burnt bread...

Other than that, I like the caps - look good...

Mike Reeter

I should have known better than to trust the opinion of the Master Cabinet builder that put the caps together for me.

F1nut

Hey, what can say. There's done right and then there's done easy.

janmike

When in doubt ask the expert. They do look nice.

Deadof_knight

Mike ,

The caps are the bomb and if your caps move up too a 1/4 inch annually hehe try a lil solid gold wood oil on them that'll keepem lubed up during the dry months....... They look sweet

Real wood moves when not taken care and will move a great deal as will mdf and any veneer. its like taking care of anything else............

F1nut

DOF, before anyone takes your advice as something worth listening to, let me set the record straight.

Oil will not stop solid wood from it's normal expansion and contraction. In fact, if a clear coat finish is used to seal the surface, oil can not penatrate the finish, period. MDF does not move and veneer will move a helluva lot less than solid wood, but it depends on what it's applied over. If applied over MDF or particleboard it will not move. If applied over solid wood, a layer of cross banding is used first, which counteracts the movement of the wood making any movement of the veneer layer all but a mute point.

Deadof_knight

I completely respect what your saying F1, mdf and particle board does not warp in a nice environment. Yes if the wood is sealed off with something. you cant get the required oil back into the wood. I have oak asbsulutely everywhere in my home. My dining table my breakfast table. my entertainment center, kitchen cabinets, trim and doors and yes some of it is solid core and some is veneered throughout the house. My father retores antiques and such, items that have been well cared for in a house in a controlled environment still look wonderful. items that have been in someones storage or garage where the temperatures go up and down a great deal the wood shows it in warpage or separation. If he preps the wood well before install the new caps should provide years of service without warpage is all I was getting at. By then you can have another set made

unc2701

OK, maybe I'm wrong on this, but I thought the rule of thumb for wood movement was <=1/16 per foot, perpendicular to the grain. So the dimension he's got to worry about is front-to-back, or about one foot... but the real problem distance is going to be the space between the bolts, which is more like 6-8 inches... so call it 1/32 of movement.

So, you've got the two bolts that it's pressing against on each side, so as long as it can wiggle 1/64 at each bolt, he's fine. I'm not saying that MDF isn't the better choice, but I don't see a big issue here. If it were green wood, or the grain was going the other way, maybe.

univera

You guys should no better than to argue with F1....:)

He hasn't tooted his own horn, but I will. Jesse restores high end antiques for a living, so he's probably pretty well versed on doing things the best way. All he's attempting to do is let the next person know the ideal method, not knock Mike's caps. I thought is was interesting to find out that MDF was better than solid wood due to resonances. One would naturally think MDF is used to cut corners and costs and that solid ANYTHING would be better than pressboard. The caps look great in any regard. Enjoy!

schwarcw

Mike, what the guys say may be correct. But the caps look great! Enjoy those SDA's!:)

amulford

I like the way they turned out.

But trust me, I WILL ALWAYS heed the advice of the f#ckin WOOD NINJA

They don't get any better than him. No ****...

Deadof_knight

I wasnt really arguing with him per say. Its more of a bunch of guys talking about things across a table. everyone has their nitch, and the deed is also already done from what I can see it was more of a pitcure of work completed. Not really a question as to what he should do ....its already done

Conradicles

F1nut wrote: »

For future reference, the black ring or any black mark like that on wood can be easily removed without sanding it out, which won't work anyway. The black color comes from a reaction with the tannin (Tannic acid) in the wood usually caused by water or some other liquid. You start by stripping the finish off the wood, clean off the stripper residue with paint thinner, let dry and then apply generous amounts of Oxalic acid mixed with water. After it dries, you clean off the Oxalic acid residue by wiping with a clean wet cloth until all residue is gone. Be careful not to breath the fine white power as it will cause a massive sneezing fit. If one application doesn't do the trick, a second one will. Let the piece dry for a day or two, then lightly scuff sand with 220 grit serrated sandpaper to knock off the raised grain. Apply color and finish, rub out and you're done.

A few reasons why veneer is a better choice than solid wood. With veneer there won't be any end grain exposed, the left and right edges of those tops show end grain. With veneer you can book match the grain for the tops, so that they look the same. It's very hard to do that with solid wood. MDF veneered pieces will not warp, crack or check like solid wood. Solid wood never stops moving, up to a 1/4" annually. That is to say, in dry months the wood shrinks, in times of high humidity the wood swells. Veneered MDF is inert, solid wood resonates and each piece will resonate differently.

As I said, for future reference.....

This is a very informative post. Question for the WOOD NINJA:
You said "Apply color and finish, rub out and you're done."

Does that mean they can be stained black?

Ender

How about advice on anything to beware of while cutting or otherwise working with solid oak pieces? I am thinking of doing this same exact thing for my SRS 2. Any specific tools that I should use or is a circular saw, jigsaw, and router ok? Any specific finishes I should use? Any prepping of the wood before applying the finish and/or stain?

zarrdoss

They look great!

Ender

Btw... I just tried removing the top drivers to get at the wooden caps... the driver won't come off!!! It's like that glued it on AND screwed it on!!! Anyone got any experience with this?

JohnLocke88

So did these things ever fall apart, or did the wood caps work?

Ender

Er... sorry, you can ignore me. I got it covered.