Mounting LSiFX and back surround speakers

smilingdawgsmilingdawg Posts: 16
edited July 2002 in Speakers
Has anyone mounted the LSiFX on the ceiling ? Suggestions ?

What are folks using for back and side surrounds for their LSi systems in a 7 speaker configuration. I know it is personal taste for monopole and di/bipole, but just figured I would ask.
Post edited by smilingdawg on
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Comments

  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    Since they are keyholed they aren't going to be a good ceiling mounted speaker.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • smilingdawgsmilingdawg Posts: 16
    edited July 2002
    :)

    Thanks. I suppose I should have worded my question better. So knowing they are keyholed, has anyone tried to mount them on the ceiling ?

    What is a good match for the LSi speakers if I need to mount the back surrounds in the ceiling ?
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    I'm fairly confident that you can mount the LSiFX's from the ceiling. I'm sure that there are brackets out there that will work. You might even call Polk's CS folks for some advice.

    LH
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • goingganzogoingganzo Posts: 2,797
    edited July 2002
    y would you want to put it on the celing would that mess up the speakers design?
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    coming from a 2 channel non hanging speakers on the wall person,Id disagree.
    The type of speaker you want for a ceiling mount will have to be an inwall or a non keyholed type speaker.You can however use an aftermarket bracket(as the 2 channel guy thought with all of his might)but I wouldn't use this type of speaker in this setup.I'ts to big and heavy.Small size speaker's are ok for hanging from the ceiling like B&W's LM1's.
    Going back to the inwall,this would make the best and cleanest Install.Less worries about the speaker coming down and hurting someone.
    Id call Polk and see how close they can match an Inwall to your setup.Or better yeat use the lsi/fx the way they are intended...on the wall.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    He just asked if it could be done, and, empirically, I'm sure he could find an aftermarket bracket to do the job. I'm not a big fan of the keyhole slots anyway.

    Actually, I DO have wall mounted speakers, my R10 rears, ran the wires and everything all by myself. Yes, believe it or not, I can operate a drill and cut a little sheetrock without hurting myself. Will wonders never cease. ****, forgot to mention my patio speaks mounted under the eves....man, I amaze my self sometimes.

    Keep trying Dan and don't hurt yourself with that box cutter, OK?

    LH
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • nascarmannnascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited July 2002
    Keep trying Dan and don't hurt yourself with that box cutter, OK?

    Is that you in there Russman.......what did you do with TroyD...:)
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited July 2002
    Not me man, I'm no pro at opening boxes, I don't do it for a living.... ;)

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    Well big dumb(as quoted from other people),
    I could mount you to the ceiling but I don't think that would be a good Idea either.
    If you would do alittle Home theater homework before you answer questions of this nature,you wouldn't have posted what you did.
    There is nothing wrong with keyholed speakers of any kind except THEY CANNOT BE HUNG FROM THE CEILING.Now if you want to go with an aftermarket bracket and have it hang down 4 to 5 inches from the ceiling,be my personal guest.
    Also the type of speaker lsi/fx isn't designed for ceiling installs or they would have a different way to mount.
    I also noticed that your post is more about fueding with me then giving the poor guy some helpfull tips.Can we all just Grow Up for One minute and end this petty bull S**T.
    As I stated in my last post, I would call Polk customer service and get a Inceiling speaker that would work for your system.You can get great performance out of inceiling speakers for rears or even surround back.If your going to use 7.1 now or in the future,Id wire for 2 surrounds off the listening area by 2 to 3 feet, then place the surround back speakersclose to the back wall as close as possible.
    Most inceiling speakers use a piviting type tweeter and can be moved to suit the room.This is a very good design.Also note that using the same exact inceiling speaker for all 4 channels(or 3 if your receiver can only output 1 surround back)will give you a seemless surround experience.
    Good luck in your quest for surround speakes,lots of rooms are limited for placement,this is a great alturnitive.
    Back to you TroyD,
    I'm glad for you that you have the ability to run rears and cut drywall.Hanging your outdoor speakers is cool 2.It can save you ALOT of money not paying a professional to do it for you.I was wondering if you could share your personal tips on how you ran those rears and outdoor speaker under your eves.
    When you placed your outdoor speaker under the eves,did you loose any bass responce?
    How do you control the sources out there and volume?
    Did you use a keypad or just an outdoor volume control?
    How many pairs are you running on your outdoor system?
    Is there any other zones in your house?How do you control them if you do?
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    Back to me? What is this the 6PM news??

    Anyway, if you REALLY want to, you can purchase aftermarket brackets. If you like them swell. I prefer brackets to the keyhole slot as it makes it easier to position them to the listening area.

    I'm telling you Dan, you are going to give yourself a heart attack at this rate.

    LH
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    UUUUUMMMMMMM....HELLO!!!!
    there Dipolar speakers.....point them at the listening area with aftermarket brackets????

    Leave it to a 2 channel guy to drop that kind of post........try that one on...
    My heart is in pretty good shape thank you.
    So you can't or won't answer any of my questions??Avoiding them?There straight out questions that I'm sure more the just me would like 2 know.But thats cool if you don't want to answer....I guess all posts need a clown.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    I gotta laugh at that post.....sorry dude...you got me with the dipolar speaker s with aftermarket brackets so you can point them at the listening area........thats so funny.
    So I gotta know......what side of the speaker do you point at the listening area???The out of phase side or the in phase?Or maybe your thinking was using them in bipolar....then they would be in phase,point one side at the listening area and the other where it goes according to the design of the speaker?
    Is this some kind of new technic I'm not in tune with?I can't figure out what to point at the listening area....is it the null area?Point that??????
    Man your pretty tricky ,I wouldn't have thought of that one....
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    actually I was talking about my speakers which aren't dipole.....

    Keep going dan...

    See, what your missing here is that it isn't important to me if I am the A/V guru. And certainly if folks get get a laugh at my expense, heck, I laugh right along too. I post my opinions and have a good time. If people like them fine, if they don't, fine. If I post something that is factually challenged, I take it as a lesson learned.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • liv4famliv4fam Posts: 311
    edited July 2002
    Damn Troy, I had no idea you were this nieve. Dan told me you were out there but hang Dipoles from the ceiling you have to be slow or better yet, check yourself for an ID 10 T error. Maybe when you have a 0.5 pound R10 speaker for rears that's okay but not on a real system with real electronics.Maybe you should test that theory and put your money where your mouth is and go buy some LSIfx and mount them to the ceiling with your professional install skills (and don't forget to point them toward your ears!!!!!) and pray they don't hit you in the head and knock some common sense into you.
  • F1nutF1nut Posts: 43,593
    edited July 2002
    And in this corner.........put your mouth piece's in or someone will get hurt.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    Man, I'm just taking a beating on this one, eh?

    OK, for the record, I'm not commenting if it's a good idea or not. He just asked if it is plausible and I think, if you really wanted to, it is.

    I mean, sonically it's not ideal, that is a given. However as far as a bracket goes, if you use the proper bracket, attached properly, it's not going to matter if is 5,10 or 50 lbs.

    If folks who certainly (and someone PLEASE tell me where I said I was an expert on ANYTHING?) don't agree, that's fine. If I am wrong and you can't properly secure them, fine, I'm wrong. Not the first time and certainly won't be the last. Doesn't bother me in the least as I said before, my self esteem doesn't hinge on being the A/V guru.

    keep it coming fellas...


    LH
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    TroyD,
    you still didn't answer any of my questions on your serious setup at your house.You really did install them yourself right???
    Tips man tips.......we can all use them right??
    Id like to know how your speakers came into play when the orignal question was about the Lsifx????Where you drinking with Russman again????If so I can excuse you.
    Liv4fam,
    that was a respectable beat down........maybe now he can rethink his post with alittle more common sence.You see he posts around in here looking for flaws in others post when he really needs to look at his own.
    HIGH 5 brother!!!!!!
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited July 2002
    You guys are HILARIOUS.

    How about instead of bashing people (and their .5lb R10's), you explain why you cannot mount a bipole/dipole switchable speaker from the ceiling. I assume from your not-so-informative posts that you seem to think they must be mounted on a wall, to the side, or rear. Could he not use stands for them if he desired, and if he could, how would stands differ from a ceiling mounted bracket? I don't see the issue.

    I'm not doubting what you posted, but provide some reasoning behind it....

    Cheers,
    Russ

    What in gods name is so complicated about running outdoor speakers? What answer are you looking for here, I don't get it.....
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    Russ,

    You can mount them about anyway you could want to, these guys are just looking to puff up and be disagreeable.

    Pro Installers,
    Gee, I didn’t realize that running wires was such a difficult task, I installed a face plate with three sets of connections behind the TV (due to the layout of the room, that will never move so the TV hides it well. I fished the wire through the wall, through the attic and ran the wires back through the walls in the kitchen where my rears are mounted. The kitchen opens in to the living room that seemed the logical place for them. While I was at it, I ran the wires for the outdoor speaks (all HD 14awg wire) and ran the wires through the vents in the eves which are located very close to the speakers (Boston Acoustics Voyagers). These are hooked up to the “B” speakers in the receiver. Maybe I’m missing something but it didn’t seem like rocket science to me. If you don’t like my setup, good for you but it serves me well.

    Of course, I could ask you guys, what is the best way to load a helocopter on a C-5B aircraft. Load it through the rear? Nose? Forward kneel the plane? How much lateral, forward, aft restraint will you need? How much airlift do you need to move a whole squadron and support equipment? I could go on but THAT is my job. I wouldn’t expect you to know or care. It doesn’t mean that you aren’t free to voice your opinions on how the war on terrorism or the military in general.

    Anyway, I did want to post my setup, and in response to your post to my hiatus, Dan, other than some good natured ribbing and questioning your ideas, I DEFY you to pick out where I insulted you or your gear. I may not agree with your ideas (I don’t like powered towers but don’t insult folks who have them) but I don’t insult you or anyone else. However, anytime it seems that I or anyone else questions you, your only response is to quote your resume and insult the intelligence of whomever it is questioning you. From my view point it would seem that you plain have a problem with an amateur questioning your views. Anyway, I just choose not to participate in this type of mean-spirited exchange.

    BTW, you ever find out anything from that Yamaha sales rep that convince you that those receivers were not the same?

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    TroyD,
    you say you don't insult anybody like me but you just did in your last post.Do you want me 2 spell it out for you?Ripping on what I do for a living seems PERSONAL enough for me bud.Running wires is just the begining of my job.

    As far as the Helocopter thing,Liv4fam was in the military for 4 years.You can talk military with him.I'm sure he can keep you company.Not to mention it HOLDS NO WATER here as this is audio and video not war.

    You know what you say and do with Russman in here,whatever dude.I wouldn't hang bipolar/dipolar rear speakers of that size off a ceiling with an aftermarket bracket.And that not just my personal opnion its my professional opnion,which in this case DOES HOLD WATER!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Now can this be the last of the pissing matches????I'm growing very tired of it...I might even join you in leaving the post.This isn't fun,pissing that is!
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    Russamn,
    I allmost forgot you........you say our not-so-informative posts,theres no reason for not doing this????I know you can read my friend.
    1.The speaker isn't designed to be hung from the ceiling with the factory bracket.
    2.Pointing a dipolar speaker at the listening area won't help sound quality.
    3.If the ceiling in the room(which hasn't been determined)at 8 feet,the speaker is 10"deep and a aftermarket bracket would make it come down about 5 inches or so.Now you have this big black speaker hanging from your ceiling not firing the way it is intended.
    4.this is why they make inceiling speakers.So if you have a problem room,inwall or inceiling can be an alternative.

    Russman I think you know enough about how and why a bipolar / dipolar speaker works.If you don't ,either liv4fam can school you or I could.Or just about everyone else in here for that matter.
    I'm not going to insult your knowledge.But if you want us 2 we can.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited July 2002
    I was referring my post directly toward liv4mantis, I should have pointed that out.

    1. There are quite a few speakers (even ones w/ no bracket/keyhole), that are hung from ceilings with aftermarket brands. I don't see why it can't be done here also. You are correct, you cannot hang it via the keyhole from the ceiling.

    2. I don't understand what anyone is talking about here regarding pointing or not pointing the speaker towards this listening area. Where would we point it, away from the listening area? I know we can all look at the manual, and see how they are supposed to be setup. What are we disagreeing on?

    3. I don't see the difference in the direction the speaker would face, if it was mounted on the rear wall, or mounted on a bracket, from the ceiling, parallel with the rear wall. Is it not firing in the same direction? Same for the side, I don't see what the issue is, unless 'height' is an issue, but no one has mentioned that to this point. Perhaps you are try to say that the speaker needs the wall directly to each side, to best create the soundfield it is designed for...but you haven't said that, so I could be 180 off base......

    4. I do understand this point, and would agree, but also add, that this is also what they make aftermarket brackets for.

    School? Not sure what to say here. But I do love to watch you get your rant on, so g'head, skool away..... And I think it's very amusing, you feel picked on, so you went a grabbed a buddy, so cute ;)

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • liv4famliv4fam Posts: 311
    edited July 2002
    Russman, Don't feel like I came in here just to pick on you. I would just like to clarify a couple of things before I leave as I am not a huge polk fanatic. These forums are to help people that have questions about there equipment, setup, rooms, and so on. Why don't you just post YOUR OPINION on a subject and let it be why do you always contradict Mantis? As far as I know Mantis is the only Professional Certified Installer in this forum and if you would stop babbling and actually listen you might learn something from someone you is actually willing to help everyone. All the bickering in here is ruining this forum for the new guys that just bought there speakers. And to finish this debate about LSIfx's- Personally, I am not a fan of aftermarket brackets because 9-10 times they require that you screw them into the speakers which I will not do because now you have holes in them if you decide to take them down. Secondly, You have to take out the drivers to see where the crossover is at and most normal people that do it themselves won't look and end up putting a drywall screw right through the crossover board. Russman and TroyD stop trying to act like you two are know-it-alls because you're not. Use your experiences and help someone instead bashing because obviously neither of you like very much when someone does it to you.
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    with that being said can't we all just get along and play nice???

    You see Russ and Troy......this is what Ive been trying to tell you all along.I'm sure you guys have alot of know how that could really help others.Thats exactly what this forum is all about.

    I'm suprised in you russ with mounting dipolar speakers on the ceiling.Do you really not know why it's not a good Idea???Do you have any experience with this and can post your own results?Theory is theory man,this is the realy real world bud.
    I really thought you did and was just looking for another pissing match.

    I can continue with why this isn't the Ideal placement.

    The speaker is designed to fill the sides of the listening with diffuse surround sound.The reason they are shaped the way that they are is for forwards and rearwards sound travel.There is a null location that this is what you point at the listening area without actually pointing.When properly mounted on the side wall out to the sides of the listening area,you create a surround field.
    Height is a very debatable subject.Ideal is about 72 inches to the tweeter.This gives you under most listening height,2 to 3 feet above ear level,which is ideal for this placement.
    Now I/we have found that modifing this idea in certian rooms can benifit from lower speaker height.Like 50 inches or even slightly lower.Another really great placement for rears is the same exact height as the fronts meaning all speakers hung equal height.This also brings the experience level up.

    I will end this post with this........learn the basic's,then experiment with them.Rules,spec's and all that good stuff is really good to know,after you have learned WHY you do it this way,then you can try it your way.Modify if you will.

    I will tell you this,I/we have installed dipolar speakers on the ceiling and it sounded like ****.They where made by Boston acoustics.They have this slide bracket the comes with them and we used molly bolts to hold it to the ceiling.Bad sound,it was all over your head drawing attention to the sound coming from them.We had to raise the rear channel level up a couple db to blend them with the mains,which where placed around the screen.You don't want to draw attention to the rears as it ruins the movie experience.
    I'm not a fan of inceiling speakers BUT......They work wonders in hard to fit in rears rooms.They don't sound that bad,most inceiling/inwall speakers have a cool thing,piviting tweeters.This gives you more flexability with directing the high frequencies.Allowing to make a diffuse sound if you will.

    I hope this helps all that reads,even you Russman,you probably already know everything I posted,but its always a good thing to review.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    Ok, eff it. I'm not letting this one pass because in this post, I posted a PERFECTLY valid opinion and then I got stomped on.

    Dan,
    I get and even admitted that hanging from the ceiling is NOT ideal. That's not what the dude asked. Your original objection was that they were too heavy. Properly mounted with a suitable aftermarket bracket, you CAN empirically mount the damn thing anywhere you want. PERIOD, END. I didn't read to much in to it because if the dude is asking, he PROBABLY has reason why it is necessary.

    Stick to your original theory, what the "2ch guy thought with all of his might" why can't he find a bracket that will securely mount a 24 lb speaker from the ceiling.

    liv4fam,

    So WHY did you show up anyway? The timing was NOT pure coincidence and other than insulting people, I don't see much value added. Dan, doesn't need added credibility. I tend to agree and defer to Dan's opinion in a lot of cases because of what he does. It's just when folks disagree with him, he tends to take it personally, which makes it all the more fun to pick on him. Dan is also pretty quick to drop the hammer on other folks as well so anything he says if fair game.

    Go ahead an rip my setup, yup, I did it myself but it's a clean job, no wires dangling etc.....Go ahead and rip it.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantismantis Posts: 15,536
    edited July 2002
    TroyD,
    are you all done venting???I am.I'm not going to bash your post.

    I see why you posted what you posted.And if you read all my posts in here minus the YOU bashing,I tried to voice my opnion on why this isn't a good idea and also tried to help the guy with some helpfull tips on other types of speakers that would be better suited for the job.
    I'm not going to defend liv4fam's posts,I didn't invite him in here,he came all on his own.I just told him about what goes on in here, we has a dissussion about forums in general.audio and video forums should be just that.thats why I come in here to talk about,not sex,he said she said and all the other **** that gets talked about.The OFF TOPIC was designed I believe for this very reason.
    Since your a senior member of this forum,the only advice I could give you in your posts when talking to a younger fellow,is try to touch basis with the entire subject at hand.If you read past all the slashing Liv4fam made,he made some really good points about the mounting of aftermarket brackets.**** them into your speaker causing holes and the possibility of damaging the crossover board.

    That it in a nut shell dude.I posted this a couple of time now..........LET ALL THIS BE WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE AND LETS ALL MOVE ON.We can ALL learn from the events over the past couple of days.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • RuSsMaNRuSsMaN Posts: 17,995
    edited July 2002
    This was such an effin stupid, yet funny move by Dan. CLASSIC. I'm so glad liv4fam graced us with hs presence, and gave us his words of wisdom. 'I had nothing to do with it', what a line.

    We are back to the same ****, different day. Polks still aren't worth seperates, are they Dan? Well, I won't argue your opinion, but don't get pissed when I post in disagreement.

    Cheers,
    'Wiling to tone it down bit, but still tired of the BS' Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyDTroyD Posts: 12,138
    edited July 2002
    RANT? WHAT RANT? Someone please tell me where I was ranting??? I'm just trying to get direct to the point answers to my questions.

    OK, back to the original subject. I still haven't read anything that would, other than not wanting to use an aftermarket bracket, that has convinced me that it is such a terrible idea. I honestly feel that it has just as much merit as an inwall speaker.

    Having said that, Dan, you STILL didn't address your ORIGINAL position that you can't hang a 24 lb speaker from the ceiling MUCH like you haven't ever produced all the wire tech data OR ever gotten back with us for your heated position on the Yamaha receiver issue OR the whole bastardized biwire thing. You are the expert, I'll defer, explain how that works. You see Dan, do you have an answer or not?

    You of course can feel free to respond with anything that I have posted in the past but, I have always acknowledged when I'm wrong, apologized where appropriate and my views are VERY consistent on topics from post to post.

    As for liv4fam, I don't buy that he JUST showed up. Dry that out and you could fertilize the lawn. Don't support or defend?? How about the high five?

    Lastly to address this: "Since your a senior member of this forum,the only advice I could give you in your posts when talking to a younger fellow,is try to touch basis with the entire subject at hand"

    I don't consider myself senior anything. I don't consider myself to be an expert or even terribly intelligent, I've never said anything to the contrary. As for posting advice or anything else, I post what I would do or what I think given the set of circumstances given. Sort of like when a dude is asking about decent subs at the 350 pricerange go pointing him to REL subs.

    Now that I have RANTED, I am done and will post no more on this topic and have my hand extended in truce and sincerely hope that we can discuss things like civil adults. However, if we do disagree, and I think that's highly probable, we can do it constructively and without all the BS

    As a note here, I've not called Dan one name, criticized him personally or made one untrue statement here. If I have, point it out and I will apologize

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • AaronAaron Posts: 1,853
    edited July 2002
    You children make my head hurt. Grow the $*&# up!

    Aaron
  • joe logstonjoe logston Posts: 882
    edited July 2002
    you can hang it from the ceiling, with a pole to ear leval or a little higher with wires thought the pole to the speakers, and turn the pole to set up speaker direction.
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
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