Rediscovering Vinyl Pt. 2: Teres Audio 255 Turntable and Graham 2.2 Tonearm
DarqueKnight
Posts: 6,765
As I stated in this post: Rediscovering Vinyl Pt. 1,
"If I could magically acquire high quality digital versions of all my records, I would sell my turntables and associated paraphernalia and never look back. I absolutely do not like dealing with the maintenance and setup issues with turntables and records."
In spite of analog's expense, inconveniences and heartaches, I find myself wanting more resolution in my analog playback. Sort of like what I hear when I go to have a listen to a friend's real, big deal analog playback system ($$$$ - but he says its worth it, and, more importantly, He's worth it). Conventional wisdom states that the cartridge has the most effect on analog playback fidelity, then the tonearm, then the turntable. That is why it is not that uncommon to see people (like me) using cartridges that cost 1.5X to 3X the cost of the turntable. Therefore, I decided to roll a few cartridges in my hardworking 1986 vintage Yamaha PF-800 turntable (1986 MSRP = $500, MSRP in 2006 dollars = $908).
Cartridges (All cartridges mentioned are moving coils)
For a long time, I was real happy with a Yamaha MC-705 (1986 MSRP = $200, MSRP in 2006 dollars = $369). I next tried a Music Hall Maestro (MSRP $550) and it was much better than the MC-705. In fact, it sounded better in the Yamaha PF-800 turntable than it did in the Music Hall MMF-9 that it was designed for. Next, I tried a Benz Micro L2 (MSRP $1295). The Benz had much higher resolution than the Maestro, but it had some colorations that I did not like. I assume these colorations were due to the wood body encasing the cartridge. Benz wood body cartridges are famous for their "tube like" sound. However, to me, it was not accurate or desirable. However, I can understand why many people, particularly tube gear enthusiasts, would like these cartridges. Next, I tried an Ortonfon Kontrapunkt B (MSRP $1149). I knew I was on to a good thing: The Kontrapunkt B had the same resolution as the Benz L2, but without the "chewy caramel" colorations. Don't ask me to explain what a "chewy caramel" coloration sounds like. You either intuitively know or you don't.;)
Prior to purchasing the Kontrapunkt B, I had conferred with two other analog enthusiasts (AE's) who were using it as their reference cartridge. AE #1, who was using a Sota Star Saphire and Sumiko FT3 tone arm, had compared the Kontrapunkt B to the Shelter 501 II (MSRP $850), the Koetsu Rosewood (MSRP $2500), and the Ortofon X5MC (MSRP $329). The Kontrapunkt B came out decisively on top in his system. AE #2, who was using a Yamaha PF-1000 turntable (same as the PF-800 but with a heavier platter and solid walnut body), compared the Kontrapunkt B to the Grado Sonata (MSRP $500), the Shure V15 Vx MR (MSRP $325), the Benz Micro Glider (MSRP $795), and the Lyra Helikon (MSRP $2000). AE #2 said that the Lyra had more upper treble detail than the Kontrapunkt B, but it was nearly twice the price without giving twice the increase in resolution. Thus, he chose the Kontrapunkt B.
I enjoyed the Kontrapunkt B so much that I became intrigued by what the top cartridge in the Kontrapunkt (Counterpoint) series, the Kontrapunkt C (MSRP $1599) would sound like...sooooo when a dealer demo with 30 hours on it showed up on Audiogon, I bought it immediately.
Side thought: Has it been your experience that when you have completed your research and you have decided on what you want, a "deal" materializes? It usually works out that way for me.
Anyway, back to the cartridges. I fully expected the Kontrapunkt C to be better than the Kontrapunkt B, but, I was, simply....astonished! The Kontrapunkt B has everything sonic-wise that the Kontrapunkt C has, the Kontrapunkt C just serves up everything bigger, better, faster and MORE. How much more? At least twice as much. Here is some quantitative analysis:
With the K-C, the soundstage extended about three feet ahead of the speaker plane and out three feet from the outer edges of the speakers. I gained about 5 feet of soundstage depth, which gave an apparent soundstage depth of about 10 feet. In short, the dimensions of the K-C soundstage were virtually lifesized and images within the soundstage were more "solid" and well defined. In contrast, with the K-B, the soundstage did not project forward of the speaker plane and the soundstage depth went back about five feet from the speaker plane. Soundstage width extended about a foot beyound the outer edges of the speakers. Overall, the Kontrapunkt C provided:
1. More bass definition.
2. More bass impact.
3. More soundstage height, width and depth.
4. More defined images within the soundstage and at the edges of the soundstage.
5. More transient speed.
The Kontrapunkt C's retail price is 39% more than the Kontrapunkt B, but since you are getting at least twice as much resolution over the Kontrapunkt B, the Kontrapunkt C is a relative bargain.
After all this, the analog demons began whispering in my ear that a better tonearm and turntable might really maximize my analog pleasure. I have had my eyes on the Graham 2.2 Deluxe tonearm (MSRP $3200) since they first came on the market. Now that Robert Graham has put a newer and better tonearm on the market (the Phantom), 2.2 owners are dumping their mint condition tonearms at very attractive prices. I was also able to find a deal on a demo Teres 255 turntable (MSRP $3375)(www.teresaudio.com). Teres turntables are compared to units retailing for two to three times the price. Teres sells manufacturer direct, so there is no bend-you-over distributor/retailer markup. I also ordered the next cartridge up from the Kontrapunkt C, the Jubilee (MSRP $1899). The next cartridge up from the Kontrapunkt C is the MC 5000 (MSRP $2000), which is Ortofon's top of the line at the moment. All of the stateside Ortofon dealers wanted to bend me over to purchase a Jubilee. That is why I found a reasonable authorized dealer in Germany and ordered from them. I should have the Jubilee early next week. A Signal Cable Silver Resolution DIN-RCA cable (MSRP $159) will connect the tonearm to the phono preamp.
Comparative Analysis
I am still not convinced that I want to invest this much in an analog rig. The combined MSRP of the Graham 2.2/Teres 255 is $6575, which is over seven times the $908 adjusted MSRP of the Yamaha PF-800 with its integrated tonearm. Fortunately, the Teres 255 , Graham 2.2, and Ortofon Jubilee are currently in demand, so if I decide that their performance does not justify the cost, I expect to recover most, if not all, of my investment.
First, I will compare the sound of the Kontrapunkt C/Yamaha PF-800 to the Kontrapunkt C/Graham 2.2/Teres 255.
After the Ortofon Jubilee arrives, I will compare the sound of the Jubilee/Yamaha PF-800 to the Jubilee/Graham 2.2/Teres 255.
I am very happy with the sound being rendered by the Kontrapunkt C/Yamaha PF-800 combination. It is very close to what I hear from top quality cartridge/tonearm/turntable packages. However, to put the demons to rest for all time, I need to hear what a really good turntable and arm sounds like in my room with my electronics. I can tell you this: The Graham 2.2/Teres 255 has a tall order to fill in order to justify its 7X cost over the Yamaha PF-800. If it is mearly twice as good I would regard it as a poor value because a high price/performance ratio is very important to me.
More later....
Picture Captions
1. The Teres 255 turntable came in a plain 17" x 17" x 17" box. Due to the intricate and secure packing inside, it took a day less than forever to get everything unpacked.
2. Turntable parts - the platter weighs 26.4 pounds. The plinth weighs 24.5 pounds.
3. Turntable parts - power supply, motor, and bearing assembly.
4. Manufacturer's stock photo of assembled Teres 255.
5. Signal Cable Silver Reference tonearm cable.
6. Graham 2.2 tonearm bearing assembly.
7. Graham SW-3 ceramic armwand and damping fluid.
8. Graham SW-3 ceramic armwand with integrated headshell.
9. Ortofon Kontrapunkt C in Yamaha PF-800 turntable.
10. Ortofon Jubilee manufacturer's stock photo.
11. Ortofon Kontrapunkt B in Yamaha PF-800 turntable.
"If I could magically acquire high quality digital versions of all my records, I would sell my turntables and associated paraphernalia and never look back. I absolutely do not like dealing with the maintenance and setup issues with turntables and records."
In spite of analog's expense, inconveniences and heartaches, I find myself wanting more resolution in my analog playback. Sort of like what I hear when I go to have a listen to a friend's real, big deal analog playback system ($$$$ - but he says its worth it, and, more importantly, He's worth it). Conventional wisdom states that the cartridge has the most effect on analog playback fidelity, then the tonearm, then the turntable. That is why it is not that uncommon to see people (like me) using cartridges that cost 1.5X to 3X the cost of the turntable. Therefore, I decided to roll a few cartridges in my hardworking 1986 vintage Yamaha PF-800 turntable (1986 MSRP = $500, MSRP in 2006 dollars = $908).
Cartridges (All cartridges mentioned are moving coils)
For a long time, I was real happy with a Yamaha MC-705 (1986 MSRP = $200, MSRP in 2006 dollars = $369). I next tried a Music Hall Maestro (MSRP $550) and it was much better than the MC-705. In fact, it sounded better in the Yamaha PF-800 turntable than it did in the Music Hall MMF-9 that it was designed for. Next, I tried a Benz Micro L2 (MSRP $1295). The Benz had much higher resolution than the Maestro, but it had some colorations that I did not like. I assume these colorations were due to the wood body encasing the cartridge. Benz wood body cartridges are famous for their "tube like" sound. However, to me, it was not accurate or desirable. However, I can understand why many people, particularly tube gear enthusiasts, would like these cartridges. Next, I tried an Ortonfon Kontrapunkt B (MSRP $1149). I knew I was on to a good thing: The Kontrapunkt B had the same resolution as the Benz L2, but without the "chewy caramel" colorations. Don't ask me to explain what a "chewy caramel" coloration sounds like. You either intuitively know or you don't.;)
Prior to purchasing the Kontrapunkt B, I had conferred with two other analog enthusiasts (AE's) who were using it as their reference cartridge. AE #1, who was using a Sota Star Saphire and Sumiko FT3 tone arm, had compared the Kontrapunkt B to the Shelter 501 II (MSRP $850), the Koetsu Rosewood (MSRP $2500), and the Ortofon X5MC (MSRP $329). The Kontrapunkt B came out decisively on top in his system. AE #2, who was using a Yamaha PF-1000 turntable (same as the PF-800 but with a heavier platter and solid walnut body), compared the Kontrapunkt B to the Grado Sonata (MSRP $500), the Shure V15 Vx MR (MSRP $325), the Benz Micro Glider (MSRP $795), and the Lyra Helikon (MSRP $2000). AE #2 said that the Lyra had more upper treble detail than the Kontrapunkt B, but it was nearly twice the price without giving twice the increase in resolution. Thus, he chose the Kontrapunkt B.
I enjoyed the Kontrapunkt B so much that I became intrigued by what the top cartridge in the Kontrapunkt (Counterpoint) series, the Kontrapunkt C (MSRP $1599) would sound like...sooooo when a dealer demo with 30 hours on it showed up on Audiogon, I bought it immediately.
Side thought: Has it been your experience that when you have completed your research and you have decided on what you want, a "deal" materializes? It usually works out that way for me.
Anyway, back to the cartridges. I fully expected the Kontrapunkt C to be better than the Kontrapunkt B, but, I was, simply....astonished! The Kontrapunkt B has everything sonic-wise that the Kontrapunkt C has, the Kontrapunkt C just serves up everything bigger, better, faster and MORE. How much more? At least twice as much. Here is some quantitative analysis:
With the K-C, the soundstage extended about three feet ahead of the speaker plane and out three feet from the outer edges of the speakers. I gained about 5 feet of soundstage depth, which gave an apparent soundstage depth of about 10 feet. In short, the dimensions of the K-C soundstage were virtually lifesized and images within the soundstage were more "solid" and well defined. In contrast, with the K-B, the soundstage did not project forward of the speaker plane and the soundstage depth went back about five feet from the speaker plane. Soundstage width extended about a foot beyound the outer edges of the speakers. Overall, the Kontrapunkt C provided:
1. More bass definition.
2. More bass impact.
3. More soundstage height, width and depth.
4. More defined images within the soundstage and at the edges of the soundstage.
5. More transient speed.
The Kontrapunkt C's retail price is 39% more than the Kontrapunkt B, but since you are getting at least twice as much resolution over the Kontrapunkt B, the Kontrapunkt C is a relative bargain.
After all this, the analog demons began whispering in my ear that a better tonearm and turntable might really maximize my analog pleasure. I have had my eyes on the Graham 2.2 Deluxe tonearm (MSRP $3200) since they first came on the market. Now that Robert Graham has put a newer and better tonearm on the market (the Phantom), 2.2 owners are dumping their mint condition tonearms at very attractive prices. I was also able to find a deal on a demo Teres 255 turntable (MSRP $3375)(www.teresaudio.com). Teres turntables are compared to units retailing for two to three times the price. Teres sells manufacturer direct, so there is no bend-you-over distributor/retailer markup. I also ordered the next cartridge up from the Kontrapunkt C, the Jubilee (MSRP $1899). The next cartridge up from the Kontrapunkt C is the MC 5000 (MSRP $2000), which is Ortofon's top of the line at the moment. All of the stateside Ortofon dealers wanted to bend me over to purchase a Jubilee. That is why I found a reasonable authorized dealer in Germany and ordered from them. I should have the Jubilee early next week. A Signal Cable Silver Resolution DIN-RCA cable (MSRP $159) will connect the tonearm to the phono preamp.
Comparative Analysis
I am still not convinced that I want to invest this much in an analog rig. The combined MSRP of the Graham 2.2/Teres 255 is $6575, which is over seven times the $908 adjusted MSRP of the Yamaha PF-800 with its integrated tonearm. Fortunately, the Teres 255 , Graham 2.2, and Ortofon Jubilee are currently in demand, so if I decide that their performance does not justify the cost, I expect to recover most, if not all, of my investment.
First, I will compare the sound of the Kontrapunkt C/Yamaha PF-800 to the Kontrapunkt C/Graham 2.2/Teres 255.
After the Ortofon Jubilee arrives, I will compare the sound of the Jubilee/Yamaha PF-800 to the Jubilee/Graham 2.2/Teres 255.
I am very happy with the sound being rendered by the Kontrapunkt C/Yamaha PF-800 combination. It is very close to what I hear from top quality cartridge/tonearm/turntable packages. However, to put the demons to rest for all time, I need to hear what a really good turntable and arm sounds like in my room with my electronics. I can tell you this: The Graham 2.2/Teres 255 has a tall order to fill in order to justify its 7X cost over the Yamaha PF-800. If it is mearly twice as good I would regard it as a poor value because a high price/performance ratio is very important to me.
More later....
Picture Captions
1. The Teres 255 turntable came in a plain 17" x 17" x 17" box. Due to the intricate and secure packing inside, it took a day less than forever to get everything unpacked.
2. Turntable parts - the platter weighs 26.4 pounds. The plinth weighs 24.5 pounds.
3. Turntable parts - power supply, motor, and bearing assembly.
4. Manufacturer's stock photo of assembled Teres 255.
5. Signal Cable Silver Reference tonearm cable.
6. Graham 2.2 tonearm bearing assembly.
7. Graham SW-3 ceramic armwand and damping fluid.
8. Graham SW-3 ceramic armwand with integrated headshell.
9. Ortofon Kontrapunkt C in Yamaha PF-800 turntable.
10. Ortofon Jubilee manufacturer's stock photo.
11. Ortofon Kontrapunkt B in Yamaha PF-800 turntable.
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
Post edited by DarqueKnight on
Comments
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Nice writeup Raife! I just can't justify a big investment into vinyl equipment at this time. My old Marantz 6300 is doing my vinyl duty.
I'd like to find a good Moving magnet cartridge that won't break my wallet. Any suggestions?Carl -
I don't know if I can justify a big investment into vinyl either, since I am more of a CD/SACD person.
I have an old (circa 1989) Grado 8MR moving magnet cartridge. It has about 100 hours on it. It was the last MM cart I used before I went headlong into MC carts.
If you are interested in something more modern, I am not familiar with what's good (and reasonably priced) in MM carts.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
That is gorgeous! A new turntable is next on my list, but not quite in that price range. Maybe something about 1/15th the price. There's definitely something special about vinyl.Wristwatch--->Crisco
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DarqueKnight wrote:Conventional wisdom states that the cartridge has the most effect on analog playback fidelity, then the tonearm, then the turntable.
I finally get to disagree with one of your statements.
Number one or number two (depending on how you look at it, you could consider the two a combo) must be the phono preamp. I've had four that I consider medium-high end so far and each turned my phono system into a totally different animal.
1: Audible Illusions preamp w/built in. Very clean and polite.
2: Jolida JD-9. Had balls, a little more noisy, fun but had less acuracy and a lot of coloration.
3: Acoustech PH1p. Extremely neutral and clean. Very faithful reproduction.
4: Manley Steelhead. A good mix of the previous three plus some coloration, medium resolution and quietness. It still has balls though.
Each of the four changed the overall output characteristics of the phono section greatly. All have tons of reviews on them so I only listed the most notable attributes. These are so different I actually considered keeping both the Acoustech and Manley to use depending upon my listening goal at the time.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
schwarcw wrote:I'd like to find a good Moving magnet cartridge that won't break my wallet. Any suggestions?
The best MM's, in my opinion:
Shure V15VxMR (out of production, good luck finding one!)
Audio-Technica AT150MLX (Garage-A-Records has the best price I've seen)
*Denon DL-110 and DL-160 (first is closer to $100, second is closer to $200, very close in sound...h-u-g-e soundstage, very dynamic)
Audio-Technica AT440MLa (best cart under $100, line-contact stylus, giant killer)
Shure M97xE (streamlined 'replacement' for the V15 above, not as good, but close...Amazon has the best price on this one)
Audio-Technica AT95E ($39.95 at Garage-A-Records, the best 'cheap' cart on the planet)
The last three are under $100, the first two start at $300, and the Denon's are in the middle. I didn't list any Stanton's because they don't make the true Stereohedron stylus anymore, but if you find an old one with it, go for it!
*These are acutally high-output MC's, but will work with an MM phono stage -
DarqueKnight wrote:I don't know if I can justify a big investment into vinyl either, since I am more of a CD/SACD person.
Can't wait to read your thoughts on the new deck (nice one by the way)! Even though I'm a vinyl-head by nature I can't afford/justify shelling out the megabucks, but maybe someday. I'm also interested in the new DD model that Teres is working on, early reports indicate that it is far and away the best they've done (of course, 'they' always say that, don't they?). -
madmax wrote:Number one or number two (depending on how you look at it, you could consider the two a combo) must be the phono preamp. I've had four that I consider medium-high end so far and each turned my phono system into a totally different animal.
I agree. I was speaking in the context of the analog front end, without consideration for the amplification upstream.
I am impatiently waiting (since the beginning of September) on a Pass Labs XONO phono stage. The factory is far behind in production. The dealer I am getting the XONO from does not stock them - he only does special orders. There are a couple of XONO's on Audiogon, but they are the ones with the older cosmetics. The older version and the new version are electrically identical, but the XONO with the newer cosmetics is an exact match with my Pass X1 preamp. Of course, there are other dealers who have the newer style XONO in stock, but I am not going to pay the full "bend-you-over" price they are asking. I am going to wait passing final judgement on the Teres/Graham combo until the XONO arrives.
Setup and assembly took a little over three hours, plus the hour that it took to unpack the turntable. I spent another five hours listening to records.
I could definitely tell a difference, particularly in bass impact, and I heard a little more definition at the far left and far right of the sound stage, but it wasn't 7X better. Not even 2X better. I would say at this point I am underwhelmed. I certainly did not experience the night-and-day improvement that I did when going from the Kontrapunkt B to the Kontrapunkt C cartridge. We'll see if the XONO, with its virtually infinitely variable loading options, improves things. If I do decide not to keep the Teres, the manufacturer offers a money back guarantee (minus shipping, of course). When I first started listening to the Teres/Graham setup, I had the Yamaha PF-800 turntable on the floor next to the audio cabinet. After about an hour, I took the Yamaha to a closet because I grew tired of seeing its sardonic smirk.
I was very impressed with the appearance, construction, fit, and finish of the Teres. It contributes a nice sculptural element to my living room. I liked the way the acrylic platter breaks up and reflects light as it is spinning. A colored, low wattage light source behind the Teres would make some interesting lighting effects. I hope this doen't turn into one of those "I know I should let her go...but I'm hooked on her looks" situations.
I was equally impressed with the appearance, construction, fit, and finish of the Graham 2.2 tonearm. One thing I really liked was the adjustment of VTA -vertical tracking angle (tonearm height) with a simple knob adjustment. Therefore, if I am going to play a record with thicker than normal vinyl, optimally setting a new VTA is not the inconvenience that it is with the Yamaha (and many other turntables). The Graham also has precise adjustments for azimuth (perpendicularity of the cartridge).Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Toka78 wrote:The best MM's, in my opinion:
Shure V15VxMR (out of production, good luck finding one!)
Audio-Technica AT150MLX (Garage-A-Records has the best price I've seen)
*Denon DL-110 and DL-160 (first is closer to $100, second is closer to $200, very close in sound...h-u-g-e soundstage, very dynamic)
Audio-Technica AT440MLa (best cart under $100, line-contact stylus, giant killer)
Shure M97xE (streamlined 'replacement' for the V15 above, not as good, but close...Amazon has the best price on this one)
Audio-Technica AT95E ($39.95 at Garage-A-Records, the best 'cheap' cart on the planet)
The last three are under $100, the first two start at $300, and the Denon's are in the middle. I didn't list any Stanton's because they don't make the true Stereohedron stylus anymore, but if you find an old one with it, go for it!
*These are acutally high-output MC's, but will work with an MM phono stage
Thanks Toka!
I don't want to hijack the thread here. (Sorry Raife)Carl -
I would second Toka's advice. Compare some high output MC's to some MM's. And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming....Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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The red light behind the platter made a huge improvement in sound quality. Looks like the Teres is a keeper!:D The green light provided the second best improvement, the yellow light was third, and the blue light was fourth. The yellow light improved the midrange but at the expense of bass definition and clarity. The blue light only made a small improvement on certain jazz and blues records and no difference at all on other records. I assume that was because a lot of the blue light was absorbed by the acrylic platter. If you notice, the platter does not reflect blue light as intensely as the other colors. I'll stop by the art supply store later today to get some other colors. I'm interested to see what effect purple has on the sound.
I hope you realize I was kidding about the sound improvement/changes with colored lights. It does look nice though.
.
.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Wow, I think I'll try some backlighting behind my new Parasound amp. Perhaps that'll help a bit. I totally see where you're coming from about the blue light not affecting the sound as much since the platter doesn't absorb near as much of it. Please do let us know how the purple light sounds!!
The new TT does look pretty impressive, I'll admit, but I also like the look of the Yamaha; plus the fact that it hangs in there at a MUCH lower cost.George Grand wrote: »
PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
Epson 8700UB
In Storage
[Home Audio]
Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
[Car Audio]
Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520 -
Why does one have to spend a ton to get cool lights? RT1's and F1's Trivista's have cool lights. I want cool lights!UNIVERA
Historic Charleston SC
2 Channel:
SDA-SRS's RDO tweets
Biamped Anthem 2 SE's w/1970's NOS Siemens CCA's
Anthem Pre 2L w/E.harmonix platinum matched 6H23's
CDP- NAD C 542
HT setup:
AVR: NAD T 773
Rears: Polk LC80i
DVD: Toshiba 3109 dual tray
Subs: Velodyne and M&K
T.V.: Sony KDL-52XBR4 w/Vans Evers Clean Line Jr.
Conditioner: Panamax M5100EX
Master Bedroom Sony 40KDL-XBR3
"I love it when a plan comes together." Hannibal Smith, The A-Team -
I didn't spend a ton on the lights. It is a $10 clamp-on table lamp with different color plastic filters in front of it.
Theres lots of far cheaper turntables with acrylic platters with which you can obtain similar lighting effects.;)Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I read the following passage:DarqueKnight wrote:...
With the K-C, the soundstage extended about three feet ahead of the speaker plane and out three feet from the outer edges of the speakers. I gained about 5 feet of soundstage depth, which gave an apparent soundstage depth of about 10 feet. In short, the dimensions of the K-C soundstage were virtually lifesized and images within the soundstage were more "solid" and well defined. In contrast, with the K-B, the soundstage did not project forward of the speaker plane and the soundstage depth went back about five feet from the speaker plane. Soundstage width extended about a foot beyound the outer edges of the speakers...
Thanks for taking the time to post.All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed and third, it is accepted as self evident. -
With well-recorded material, the dimensions of the soundstage were the same for both digital (SACD) and analog sources.
When comparing the redbook CD layer to the SACD layer of a hybrid SACD disc (switching between both on the same SACD player), the SACD layer generally provided more width and depth and more "solid" images within the soundstage.
With analog sources, the soundstage size depended on how the material was recorded and the resolution of the phono cartridge.
Of course, what your hear will depend on your associated equipment and room.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I was disturbed by the condition of the packaging when my Ortofon Jubilee cartridge arrived yesterday. I was even more disturbed by the rattling I heard inside of the package. Obviously, my merchandise experienced some difficulties on the way from Germany.
There was nothing broken inside. The rattling was due to the screws and tools rattling around inside a plastic tube.
The Jubilee sounded like crap right out of the box: dark and compressed with anemic bass. Ortofon specifies a breakin period of 30 hours. My Kontrapunkt B sounded the same way out of the box and took 27 hours to fully "wake up".
After 10 hours of play, I can hear some improvements over the Kontrapunkt C: more overall detail, a little more shimmer in the highs, more layering of instruments front-to-back within the soundstage. So far, the Jubilee's bass does not hit as hard as the Kontrapunkt C's (but I'm optimistic). Maybe this won't be one of those diminishing returns situations.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
audiobliss wrote:Please do let us know how the purple light sounds!!
The purple is real mellow. Sort of a tube-like softness in the upper midrange. I still like the sound of the red filter better...very neutral sound with enhanced soundstage depth and detail. That's why I decided to go to a darker red filter.:DProud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
univera wrote:Why does one have to spend a ton to get cool lights? RT1's and F1's Trivista's have cool lights. I want cool lights!
The lamp behind the turntable is a $10 25 watt clamp-on lamp from Office Depot. The colored gel filters ( $5.84 per 20" x 24" sheet) are the type used for stage lights, so no worries about heat from the lamp bulb. The filter sheets are sandwiched between cardboard frames made from thin cardboard sheets (salvaged from dress shirt packages).Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
The optional battery power option provides complete isolation from the AC power line. When the motor is switched off, the sealed battery is constantly trickle charged by the AC line. When the motor is switched on, a relay disconnects the AC line from the battery charging circuit and the turntable motor runs solely off of the DC from the battery. The battery can be bypassed with a jumper wire so that the motor runs off of the AC line. One day I'll get around to testing the manufacturer's claim that battery power provides noticeable improvements in sound quality.
Teres Audio does not provide a nice enclosure for the battery because they say most people just hide the battery behind something. I decided to put mine in a painted metal box (Hammond Mfg. part #1415E): gloss black for the front plate and semi-flat black for all other sides.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Looks great Raife! Did you buy enough black paint? It looks like you have 4 or 5 cans on the kitchen counter. I hope you didn't run out;)
How much listening can you get on a "charge" before you have to plug the AC in?Carl -
DarqueKnight wrote:The purple is real mellow.
Very Kewl Raife. Looking at those pics gave me a Close Encounters flashback.:DSalk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 * -
schwarcw wrote:Did you buy enough black paint? It looks like you have 4 or 5 cans on the kitchen counter. I hope you didn't run out;)
It took less than 1 can to double-coat the metal box. The other 4 cans are for painting a large (60" x 20") metal sculpture.:)schwarcw wrote:How much listening can you get on a "charge" before you have to plug the AC in?
The manual says the battery will operate the table for over 100 hours. To prolong battery life, the battery is supposed to be plugged in to the AC at all times.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
I currently have 32 hours on the Ortofon Jubilee cartridge. Just like the Ortofon Kontrapunkt B, which was also purchased new, the Jubilee sounded thin, with weak bass and an upper midrange "tizziness". After 10 hours, the tizziness went away and the bass started improving and continued to improve for the next 10 hours of play. At 20 hours, the images within the soundstage came fully into sharp focus and the bass became faster and more defined. There was also more 3-dimensionality and front to back depth.
Ortofon specifies a breakin time of 30 hours. I have not heard any improvements after the 20 hour mark, so I am assuming the Jubilee is broken in. BTW, I used the "burn in" side of the Cardas Test record during the first hour of play.
The Kontrapunkt C I purchased already had 30 hours of play time on it, so it was already broken in when I received it and sounded great right out of the box.
As expected, the differences between the Jubilee and Kontrapunkt C were not as dramatic as the differences between the Kontrapunkt C and Kontrapunkt B. I think that the Kontrapunkt C gives you 90% of the performance of the Jubilee. Whereas the Kontrapunkt C is a totally different cartridge than the Kontra B, the Jubilee is more of a refined version of the Kontra C. More appropriately stated, since the four Kontrapunkt cartridges are derived from the Jubilee, the Kontrapunkt C is a cost-reduced version of the Jubilee. Here is what the Jubilee offers for $300 more in retail price:
1. A little more resolution ( I would quantify it at 10% more) as evidenced by more surface noise being heard (more resolution is not always a good
thing) and more overall detail, particularly at the extreme sides and far rear of the soundstage.
2. The soundstage dimensions of the Kontra C and Jubilee are identical. Images within the Jubilee soundstage have more "weight", realism, and detail.
3. There is little more shimmer in the highs. More overhang and natural decay of cymbals and piano notes. Plucked strings and voices have more body. The Jubilee just sounds more real.
4. The Jubilee excels at layering of instruments front-to-back within thesoundstage. There is more of a sense of space between instruments. This is particularly noticeable on classical music.
I wondered why Ortofon cartridges don't show up more in the audio press. I found out that Ortofon has a policy of not supplying cartridges to audio press reviewers. Maybe they got burned a long time ago? They also do not do a lot of advertising for their higher end cartridges, at least not in North America. I assume they are doing well enough with word-of-mouth referrals.;)
Unfortunately, if a reviewer wants a product sample, they either have to request one from a retailer or a distributor or buy it outright. I can fully understand why retailers and distributors would be very reluctant to submit a review sample, since it will have to come out of their inventory AND since there is always the chance that the product might receive a less than favorable review. In the case of reviewers having to buy a sample for review, well, that speaks for itself.
I guess I'll go ahead and retire the Yamaha PF-800. We sure did have a good time.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Surface noise differences between cartridges is most likely to be caused by where in the groove the needle sits. It can sit at different places depending upon the shape of the needle and the alignment of the cartridge. Some can troll the bottom of the groove and pick up noise from crud down there while others can sit too high on the groove and pick up surface scratches. It could also be sitting in the same area as a previous needle caused damage in the groove. One of the tricks of old record sound retrival is to have several different sized needles on hand to allow you to find a clean part of a groove.
madmaxVinyl, the final frontier...
Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... -
Clarification: The surface noise I mentioned is the noise generated simply by the needle being in contact with the record groove rather than noise due to scratches and dirt.
I heard more surface noise with the Kontrapunkt C than with the Kontrapunkt B, even though the K-C and K-B use the same needle and are the same size and weight.
The Jubilee uses a different needle and has different physical dimensions, weight, and electrical specifications.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
...until my Pass Labs Xono phono preamp gets here. It ships out next Monday (10/30/06). I ordered it 8/29/06. We'll see if good things really do come to those who wait...and wait...and wait...and wait.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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The cat, you know that cat in the brown uniform, finally showed up with my Xono phono stage. The unit came double-boxed as usual, so I don't understand why Uncle Nelson thought it was necessary to put a big sticker on two sides of the box announcing what I'm getting myself for Christmas. I'm sure it makes sense in California.
The moment I set up the Xono and lowered the needle into the record groove, I knew I was on to a good thing. The Xono did not "shame" the PS Audio GCPH, even though it retails for $4.2X more $$$$ ($4200 vs. $995). It simply gave me more of everything that the GCPH already offered: more overall fine detail, more gain (actually much more gain), more holographic imaging, more space between instruments front-to-back, more edge-of-the-soundstage resolution, more reverberation off the studio side and rear walls, and much, much, much, more bass slam.
The gain of the GCPH maxes out at 66 dB compared to 76 dB for the Xono. The extra 10 dB may not sound like much, but rather than bore you with those logrithmic voltage gain formulas, I will offer a different quantitative analysis: With the GCPH set at a maximum gain of 66 dB, I had to turn the volume control of my preamp up to "20" to achieve an average 85 dB playback volume level. With the Xono set at a maximum gain of 76 dB, I had to turn the volume control of my preamp up to "9" to achieve an average 85 dB playback volume level. This is nice because I need to turn the preamp volume control up to "9" to achieve an average 85 dB playback volume level with my SACD player. Now the gain of my turntable and SACD match.:) I got (sick and) tired of having to turn the preamp volume way up or way down when switching between turntable and CD.
The Xono default factory settings were 100 ohms loading and 76 dB gain. I played around with different gain and loading options, but the factory settings gave the best sound with the Ortofon Jubilee cartridge. Other loading settings above and below 100 ohms made the sound darker, less dynamic, and less detailed. Seems that Pass Labs knew best in this case. However, I only tried four settings above 100 ohms (120, 150, 200, 475) and four settings below 100 ohms (80, 75, 50, 20). There may very well be a more optimal loading, but I'll never know because I ain't gonna spend the next five weeks flipping DIP switches and evaluating loading settings. The only loading guidelines that Ortofon provides for the Jubilee cartridge is to use a loading above 10 ohms.
Satisfied with the sound I was getting (which should get better over the next few days), I brought out my laser level to make sure all the LED's on the X1 preamp and Xono faceplates were properly lined up. After the lineup, I considered the installation procedure finished. You know, sometimes not having the chassis' lined up can cause a slight loss of bass definition and detail.;)
Remember, all this is from a fellow who still prefers digital.:DProud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
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DarqueKnight wrote: »univera wrote:Why does one have to spend a ton to get cool lights? RT1's and F1's Trivista's have cool lights. I want cool lights!
I disabled signatures. -
DarqueKnight wrote: »univera wrote:Why does one have to spend a ton to get cool lights? RT1's and F1's Trivista's have cool lights. I want cool lights!
I have spiffy color changing LED backlights on my counter. They aren't programmable to do a lot, but they can change color, how bright or dim they are, and go through some very basic color changing scheme's.....
I need to buy another set for behind my TV both in the HT and also the loft."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)