Is this an even TRADE?

Joey_V

Funny thing... I got an email today.

Someone wants to do a local trade.

My Martin Logan Summits for his Wilson Sophia 1!

This is what we're looking at here:
Martin Logan Summit = $11,000 + tax
Wilson Sophia = $12,000 + tax
Summit frequency range = 24hz to 23khz (sealed enclosure) :cool:
Sophia frequency range = 29hz to 22.5khz (bass reflex, ported)
Summit = 80lbs each
Sophia = 175lbs each :eek:

Both are extremely good at what they do... so what would you guys do?

I just found it entertaining that I got this offer....

Here are some pics:
Martin Logan Summits

Wilson Audio Sophia


Dont get me wrong.... I love my Summits. But something like this doesnt happen too often. The Sophias are in equally perfect condition as my Summits.

You think it's a wise idea to atleast check it out and see how the Sophias sound in my room?

I'm not really entertaining this idea as this is such a hassle, but it's funny and I thought I'd post it for entertainment.

I've heard the Sophias before at a dealer and I really really enjoyed them. But I havent done a side by side comparison with the Summits so it is very difficult to say which is better. Maybe I should arrange an A/B session... though at 350lbs for the pair of Sophias, this is going to be a crazy b*tch to setup.

Has anyone here heard both and have an opinion?

Ah... whatever. I'm going to bed.

jdhdiggs

I don't know that this forum is qualified to give you suggestions. There are maybe only one or two people here with in home experience of speakers at that level. I would try over at AVS. Several people there have exposure to both.

Ricardo

I voted consider the trade, after all money wise it is relatively even......and if you can get them for an A/B comparison you have nothing to lose....but personally I don't like the looks of the Sophias.

ND13

You've had plenty of experience with the MLs, it's time to get the ears on the Wilson's. Their response differences will be negligible at worst and the Wilsons are built like a Sherman tank. I'd almost have to say(without seeing the specs) that the Wilson's MAY be even a little more efficient, seeing that the bass enclosure is ported instead of sealed.

This is what the hobby is all about. Be thankful that you can even have to consider such a trade.

Do the trade.

McLoki

Just not excited at all by the look of the Wilson Audio Sophia. They may sound great, but damn are they ugly (compared to the summits). If it was a step up tword your final speaker, I would say go for it. Since this is a lateral move, I would stick with the summits. (you think the Wilsons will work as well as computer speakers?)

Michael

univera

I voted to try the trade or at least go listen to the other set instead of hauling them around. If you like what you have now, why bother hauling them around and risking damage to an $11,000 speaker?

I am curious what those who have heard you speakers and heard the large SDA's feel is a better sounding speaker. I have heard it said many times that one would have to spend 8-10,000 to get a comparable quality speaker as the large SDA's in today's market. So to rephrase my initial question, "are those speaks $10,000 better than the large SDA's in the opinion of those who have heard both?" (I haven't heard the ML's.) Not trying to discredit the ML's, I am truly just curious as that is an incredible amount to spend on speaks. I would if I could and if I liked them enough...

bobman1235

I'd liek to be able to HEAR an 11,000 dollar speaker, let alone have options regarding trading them for another 11,000 dollar speaker.

ND13

univera wrote:

I voted to try the trade or at least go listen to the other set instead of hauling them around. If you like what you have now, why bother hauling them around and risking damage to an $11,000 speaker?

I am curious what those who have heard you speakers and heard the large SDA's feel is a better sounding speaker. I have heard it said many times that one would have to spend 8-10,000 to get a comparable quality speaker as the large SDA's in today's market. So to rephrase my initial question, "are those speaks $10,000 better than the large SDA's in the opinion of those who have heard both?" (I haven't heard the ML's.) Not trying to discredit the ML's, I am truly just curious as that is an incredible amount to spend on speaks. I would if I could and if I liked them enough...

Extremely subjective question.

cmy330go

I personally prefer the sound of Wilsons over ML. So if it were me I would do the trade. As you and others have said....both are great speakers. I agree with most here that the Wilsons aren't the most beautiful speaker in the world, but if they sound great, who cares?

I would see if he's open to doing the swap with the idea that if either of you don't like the other's speakers you can swap back. At least this way you both get to spend considerable time with the speakers, and can form an honest opinion of both.

Just a thought.

wingnut4772

I voted no trade. The Summits are just too purdy and if you are happy with them why change a good thing? Now...if the Sophias were equally as aesthetically pleasing, I would try it.

RuSsMaN

I prefer dynamic loudspeakers over electrostats, you need to get your ears on the Sophias broham.

ND13

I don't know, I kinda like the Sophia's look.....more masculine.

univera

ND13 wrote:

Extremely subjective question.

Of course it is, but determining whether they are $10,000 better isn't minutia. I mean, do they have $9-10,000 more "wow factor" than a large set of SDA's? That's alot of money when one can buy damn nice speakers for far less. Again, I wish I had those kind of options....SDA's shouldn't run more than $2,000.

zombie boy 2000

Univera -- It is if you pull in $10 billion a quarter...


Joey -- you're in an enviable position... but that's not a voting option.

ND13

univera wrote:

Of course it is, but determining whether they are $10,000 better isn't minutia. I mean, do they have $9-10,000 more "wow factor" than a large set of SDA's? That's alot of money when one can buy damn nice speakers for far less. Again, I wish I had those kind of options....SDA's shouldn't run more than $2,000.

IMO, and I have heard several MLs, while the MLs are on my wish list, I can't see/hear 4-5 times the difference, but they are totally different approaches to speaker design and execution and both have their own attributes and shortcomings.

Joey_V

$10billion is a LOT.... to pull in!

I looked at the market price for the Sophia, even if it starts off more expensive than the ML Summits, they are about $1,000 less in the resale market.

If I do trade, I will ask for monetary compensation for the remaining $1,000.

I have heard the Sophias, but it was in the best room possible with BAT electronics top to bottom, about $30,000 including gear and cables/interconnects/powercords. That's not what I can run them with... atleast not in the near future.

BTW, the reason why I have them by my PC is for convenience sake... I have had my Summits set up in the living room and I felt that there was this "room sound" that I couldnt get used to... sounds better in my bedroom.

Within the next year and half, I'll become a resident.... then I'll have a better place and more spending money. These speakers (both) deserve more space and will be carefully tucked away in a room of their own.... with a nice Plasma in the middle.

At the moment, it's a dream... but it'll come up soon.

Bottom line, dont think these are going to remain PC speakers for long.

Meh... I'll think about the trade. I'll call up my local dealer and see what kind of deal he can give me on the Wilson Sophia floor demos, since he has to make room for the Sophia 2. If his deal can be covered by the Summits being sold, then I think it's probably a better route than a straight up trade.

Thing is, trades rarely work. I'm sure there will be some bitterness in which someone feels he/she got the shorter end of a stick... another reason why I'm a little leary.

Joey_V

ND13 wrote:

IMO, and I have heard several MLs, while the MLs are on my wish list, I can't see/hear 4-5 times the difference, but they are totally different approaches to speaker design and execution and both have their own attributes and shortcomings.

Hard for me to quantify how MUCH better it is....

But I do have an easy time distinguishing the fact: Can I live with this or not? Does this sound more "real" to me? Does this sound like a speaker or does it sound like a band?

Once you get those questions answered, you just have to decide when enough is enough. Money-wise... you only live once.

ND13

Joey_V wrote:

Hard for me to quantify how MUCH better it is....

But I do have an easy time distinguishing the fact: Can I live with this or not? Does this sound more "real" to me? Does this sound like a speaker or does it sound like a band?

Once you get those questions answered, you just have to decide when enough is enough. Money-wise... you only live once.

That's the reason why I never buy new. I'll let the man with the money take the initial hit on depreciation. Like I said, it is extremely subjective and each speaker is strong and have few weak points. What people tend to forget is, that if Polk were to build and sell the SDA SRS 1.2TLs, to the same exact quality, in today's economy, they'd be in that $7-10 grand range.

ninerbj

Sophias! Nuff said.

Joey_V

ND13 wrote:

That's the reason why I never buy new. I'll let the man with the money take the initial hit on depreciation. Like I said, it is extremely subjective and each speaker is strong and have few weak points. What people tend to forget is, that if Polk were to build and sell the SDA SRS 1.2TLs, to the same exact quality, in today's economy, they'd be in that $7-10 grand range.

I agree... I never like to take the full hit considering I dont have an income. Once I graduate and I like the dealer, then we'll see - but I need deals from the outset.

Anyway, this is beyong whether or not it is worth it... to me, it is. Considering what is out there for the price, I think my ML Summits are worth it. Every penny of what I shelled out is good for something... when they play.

Re the Sophia.... I'm not sure. It is VERY difficult to get these in room and play with them to the extent that I have with my Summits. It is very difficult for me to let the Summits go and "hope" that the Sophias come into my room and unabashedly beat the Summits with the material I listen to and the electronics I run.

Whoo.. this is a doozy of a predicament.

zombie boy 2000

Sell it all...
buy a Sony Boombox....
some quadrophonic sound for the van....
send the remaining ducets to your's truly....

wash, rinse, repeat

Joey_V

Damn you ZB!

zombie boy 2000

Seriously though... I say stay the course and plan the best path to your Sonus Faber Stradivari. This includes choosing any speakers in the interim that excell in the resale department...

I'd say lateral moves would do more harm than good:)

Joey_V

ZB...
I think you may be right. Focus, Joey.... focus! Eye on the prize.... Strads in 5 years is the goal.

Seriously, 5.

(crossing fingers)

polkatese

Gotta shoot for the Amati first, before the Strad, Joey...:)

danger boy

ok. what makes a speaker cost that much $$ anyway? do they use pure silver or other precious metal screws or what? Do drivers cost that much. IS a driver worth say $2000 each? :eek:

I'm just playing devils advocate here for a minute. i'm trying to understand how a speaker pair end up costing so much. What raises the price beyond a certain level? Is it because they are hand made? do they use inlaid wood's? Help me understand where the $12,000 price comes from.

jm1

This opportunity presents itself as a means to evaluate both speakers and possibly allow you to choose what you think best suits your needs. Personally, I would enquire why the other party has proposed this and the composition of their system. If you decide to proceed, maybe you could haul your speakers to their system to conduct a side by side audition. This could also present additional risks as you may both decide you like the Sophia’s better, or …

I have looked at both and have my own preference of the two; your choice would be different for any number of reasons.

I am not sure why some have contrasted the physical characteristics of the two speakers. Many have been challenged to accept the exterior design of the speakers I selected, but I did not purchase them as room decor.

DarqueKnight

danger boy wrote:

I'm just playing devils advocate here for a minute. i'm trying to understand how a speaker pair end up costing so much. What raises the price beyond a certain level? Is it because they are hand made? do they use inlaid wood's? Help me understand where the $12,000 price comes from.

Any high quality, low volume item = $$$$. Plus, the MSRP factors in the retailer's markup. Research and development costs, manufacturer's overhead, distributor and dealer markups, cost of high quality, exotic and/or limited availability parts and small production runs all adds up to the big price tag.

Joey_V

jm1...

Curious, which did you go with?

Joey

Polkatese,

The Amati Anniversario for sure in 5 yrs or less... but the Strad is an end-all goal that is a tougher goal to make. I prefer to make my next move to be a true step up.

I'm beginning to think it's not worth my time and hassle to do t is trade.... as ZB so eloquently put it.... lateral moves are useless.

Joey

Shizelbs

I have not heard the Summits, but alls I know is that the Sophias are outstanding and on my 'short list'

bobman1235

danger boy wrote:

ok. what makes a speaker cost that much $$ anyway? do they use pure silver or other precious metal screws or what? Do drivers cost that much. IS a driver worth say $2000 each? :eek:

LIke most things, the sum of the parts does not equal the whole. The wood to make a dining room table costs a lot less than the table itself. The chemicals in a drug cost FAR less than the drug itself. But it takes a lot of research and development to make something like that, and everyone involved has to get paid.

Plus, if you make one fo the best products in a certain market, you can raelly charge whatever you want. As long as there's the image that you're the best, you set your own price.