Women's Rights

unc2701

hearingimpared wrote:

You angry twisted up little mess of a man. . . you have reason to hate the Bible???? We are trying to show Cathy that what we read in it places women equal and in some case higher than men. I pray for you regularly whether you like it or not.

Joe

Can I get in on that? I'm an ex-altar-boy-catholic-sorta-atheist. Seems like I could use a little help. Just address it to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, if you don't mind.

PolkThug

hearingimpared wrote:

We are trying to show Cathy that what we read in it places women equal and in some case higher than men.

Do you deny that there are places in the Bible where women are less than equal to men?

hearingimpared

ND13 wrote:

One thing there Joe....Brett ain't little.

He behaves little.

audiobliss

unc2701 wrote:

Can I get in on that? I'm an ex-altar-boy-catholic-sorta-atheist. Seems like I could use a little help. Just address it to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, if you don't mind.

I will. I'll get down on my knees and ask that God would forgive you for the years you were a practicing Catholic. He's merciful. There may be hope.

brettw22

hearingimpared wrote:

You angry twisted up little mess of a man. . . you have reason to hate the Bible???? We are trying to show Cathy that what we read in it places women equal and in some case higher than men. I pray for you regularly whether you like it or not.

LOL.....I have absolutely nothing against the Bible....I'm just saying that to claim it as fact because that's what he believes is NOT a fact. Also, I think it's a little weird to tell someone that they're being prayed for when it's not something requested. Maybe it's one thing to do it in silence, but I think it's weird to say something to the effect of "I'm doing it because I think you're wrong......"

And I'm neither a mess, nor little.......deal with it.

hearingimpared

ND13 wrote:

One thing there Joe....Brett ain't little.

He calls me knee-jerk and tells me I take things personally and then chimes in with an angry statement like that, in my eyes he is a little man that I pray for every day, not to see my way or my opinion but I pray for him to have peace of mind and happiness. He'll tell me to shove that up my rear end but I will continue to pray for him.

unc2701

You know, it's not like god doesn't have a budget. You'd think he would be buying spots on the superbowl, on the first reel of Pirates of the Carribean, etc... little more direct than inspiring a couple of guys 2,000 years ago... then again 325 years later... then again 1611 years later...

hearingimpared

brettw22 wrote:

LOL.....I have absolutely nothing against the Bible....I'm just saying that to claim it as fact because that's what he believes is NOT a fact. Also, I think it's a little weird to tell someone that they're being prayed for when it's not something requested. Maybe it's one thing to do it in silent, but I think it's weird to say something to the effect of "I'm doing it because I think you're wrong......"

And I'm neither a mess, nor little.......deal with it.

You need to deal with it Brett.

unc2701

audiobliss wrote:

I will. I'll get down on my knees and ask that God would forgive you for the years you were a practicing Catholic. He's merciful. There may be hope.

wait a sec... god has something against catholics? 'cause you would think he would have done something about that before 1517. Unless he was trying to tell us to be greek orthodox, russian orthodox or coptic.

brettw22

Joe...........there IS a difference in questioning one's position and being angry. I don't sense any anger in my post above.....and i should know.......I wrote it. Please don't claim I'm hateful because you want to snap react to what is posted.

Have a nice day. (even without prayer)

audiobliss

My word, unc2701,...you have the weirdest posts.

unc2701

Explain?

audiobliss

Haha, you first. I just don't understand 90% of your meaning/insinuations.

unc2701

No, you wouldn't.

Up until the protestent reformation, just about all christians fell under the Roman Catholic church or the ones I've listed. 1517 was the year of Martin Luther's 95 theses or when western christians got a choice. Your remark that I needed forgiving for being a Roman catholic implys that god let a whole lot slide for 1500 years OR he was ok with the other non-RC christian churchs available until that point.

Other post:
325- year of the nicean council... even bigger than the protestant reformation in terms of 1)the content of the bible and 2)the beliefs of christians.

1611- (I think... it's been awhile) The year your favorite translation of the bible was written.

So there's this all powerful, all knowing being. Instead of laying it down for us mano a mano like he did with moses, he gets a few guys to write a bunch of books, a few more guys to pick out which books are for real and a few more guys to translate it properly into the vernacular of the 17th century. All knowing all powerful. Why didn't he just have them write it in modern english, bury it with the dead sea scolls and wait for us to dig it up 2000 years later?

Anyho, you keep telling us to read the bible... maybe you should read a little of its history?

oh- flying spaghetti monster. Internet thing. Google it, but it's a better creation story than either of the ones in Genesis.

shack

There are those that believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God with each step along the way a result of the direct hand of God.

There are those that believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, with men inspried by God making decisions as to what information is or is not relevant and how the original texts were to be translated. To them the Bible may have some factual inaccuracies but the messsage is from God.

There are those that believe the Bible is a history book as recalled by the writers and is based of factual information that may or may not have been accurately recorded and or translated. The characters are real and the events are real whether inspired by God or not.

There are those that believe the Bible is fiction.

Many religions base their faith on the words of this book. Regardless of how you come down on the Bible, one cannot deny it's impact on civilization, society, laws, etc, etc. It is the most influential book the world has ever known. There are very few pockets of human life that have not at least been exposed to it's existance. It equally influences the most fundamental Christian to the most fervent athiest. The history of the Bible, how it came to all of it's various forms, how the various sects and denominations use the Bible is very interesting. Both it's message and it's history are the most widely written about document in history. I think it is important to know what is in the Bible and know the history of the Bible ragardless of your particular religious belief (or lack of it) because of the influence it has had in the past and the future. To treat this book lightly is foolish.

cfrizz

I don't want or need any one of the umpteen million versions of the bible to know that for the most part all of them are discriminatory against women.

I don't need Thuggy to interpret the bible for me, he just quoted all the passages I was forced to listen to for years by priests. I made up my own mind as I matured that I wanted nothing to do with something so negative against me. Something that made me feel that I & every other woman was responsible for all the evil that exist in man!

That's what those versuses say in black & white! History has shown how men have interpreted them. Jesus may have said & believed one thing, but it is clear that MEN decided that he was wrong! If men & women were equal, it wouldn't have taken until 1920 for women to be able to vote! My mother would have had all her credit cards in her own name rather than Mrs. Thomas **** she wasn't allowed to sign her own name & this was in the 1960's!

I don't blame the priests, I have nothing against anybody who believes in the bible or who chooses to practice their faith however they see fit.

I don't play the race card, I don't go around looking for racism. I simply work hard, treat everyone with respect, give everyone the benefit of the doubt until they show they don't deserve it & just live my life and do to the best of my ability to be a good person!

And believe it or not I LIKE men! Not all men are sexist pigs. Most of my friends are men. I just can't find one that doesn't see me as another notch to add on his belt, or find one that wants to work for a living!

Until I find one, I will stay happily single.

If that's not enough for some people TOUGH *HIT! Hopefully it will be enough for God!

hearingimpared wrote:

Cathy I am with Bliss on this! Please get a copy of the King James version of the Bible and read it, you will find peace and contentment in your heart. I'll even buy you one and send it to you and pickup the tab. I feel very hostile toward the RC church myself but I dont' want to get into that here. If you have issues with the priests, they are Catholic and they have their own "version" of the Bible and their own dogma. I have no dogma! I am a spiritual person by way of the Bible and I reiterate, I SEE NO ONE SIDEDNESS IN THE BIBLE towards men. It's simply not there just like there is no theology in the New Testament. Organized religions PUT theology there, they create the dogma.

God is the Author of the Bible at least I believe that He is the Author of the one I read.

I am not patronizing you here I speak from my heart.

lanion

shack wrote:

There are those that believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God with each step along the way a result of the direct hand of God.
QUOTE]

if you believe this please be aware the English version is a translation, and when you translate something you put a lot of your own meaning and interpretation into it. The original Hebrew has a lot of puns and multiple interpretations that would be obvious to a native Hebrew speaker, but these intricacies are lost in translation.

shack

lanion wrote:

shack wrote:

There are those that believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God with each step along the way a result of the direct hand of God.
QUOTE]

if you believe this please be aware the English version is a translation, and when you translate something you put a lot of your own meaning and interpretation into it. The original Hebrew has a lot of puns and multiple interpretations that would be obvious to a native Hebrew speaker, but these intricacies are lost in translation.

As I said, the people who believe this way feel that God himself directed the translation and the result is as he intended.

cheddar

cfrizz wrote:

And believe it or not I LIKE men! Not all men are sexist pigs. Most of my friends are men. I just can't find one that doesn't see me as another notch to add on his belt, or find one that wants to work for a living!

How about a man who wanted to take care of the home and kids full-time? Would that be a good man? Does equality swing both ways for you or is it something that is mainly defined through work outside the home?

(Not trying to pick a fight here. I'm really curious.)

brettw22

Cheddar, I don't think that has to do with equality.......that has to do with the family dynamic that the family unit would discuss/agree upon.......if both people agree, that's something completely different than how you define a 'good man.'

EDIT: Also, just because that might work for one family doesn't arbitrarly mean that it would work for all either....but the families that opt for that method would have discussed that part of the relationship up front I'd imagine.

cheddar

For young and married people without kids, I would agree. But as married couples get older and start bringing children into the world, work at the workplace and work at home are intimately related. I think people place much more value on work in the workplace these days, but another form of equality would be valuing the contribution a man can make in taking care of business in the home and raising the kids full-time.

Edit: While the wife brings home the bacon...of course...with equal pay to men.

cfrizz

I have absolutly NO problem with that. If that is what the man chooses to do & wants to do GO FOR IT!

I wish we still lived in a world were there could be 1 full time parent at home!

I was fortunate enough to grow up in that environment & I think it made a huge difference in my brothers & my lives! My Mom didn't go back to work until her youngest was in school, & she still managed to come home & fix us dinner! My Dad worked 2 jobs to put food on the table, get a Masters degree in music & live his dream of teaching music until he died of cancer in 1982 @ the age of 59. He only got to live his dream for about 10 yrs or so.

But he took care of his family first & foremost! It's sad to see all of these children growing up without both of their parents in their lives. It's sad to see so many men & women abandoning their responsibilities to their children.

So man or woman, if you can afford to stay home & be a full time parent, you have my admiration & respect!

cheddar wrote:

How about a man who wanted to take care of the home and kids full-time? Would that be a good man? Does equality swing both ways for you or is it something that is mainly defined through work outside the home?

(Not trying to pick a fight here. I'm really curious.)

cheddar

Well, in truth, I have no problem with certain legal protections for women and minorities at work. I just see the intense value we place on both men and women working outside the house as being detrimental to the future of our next generation. True equality to me means that all the important roles are taken care of in the family by a responsible adult either man or woman.

I know it's probably blasphemy on this forum, but anyone who can afford lsi speakers (myself included) can probably afford to make sacrifices in their lives to have a one wage earner family work out. Who knows, if as many men dropped out of the workforce to go home as women who entered, wages might be a lot higher too .

cfrizz

Cheddar, the value of work is NOT more important than the value of the family, it is simply the necessity that BOTH parents have to work if they are going to survive!

A great many women are guilt stricken because they have no choice but to work & put their children into daycare. Or feel guilty that they couldn't give their children enough attention, stuff, whatever, because it was just her raising them & her time & money only went so far.

A great many women found out the hard way that you just CAN'T have it all, something has to give somewhere.

Men like Demi **** about women leaving to take care of their babies. I would also bet that he would call a man a wimp if he decided to stay home & be the full time parent. I would respect that man like there is no tomorrow!

I respect & admire every single married man on this board who hasn't been afraid to say that he loves & respects his wife & women in general and that he takes her feelings into consideration. And I have no use to the other men on this board who have derided those men for saying so!

hearingimpared

brettw22 wrote:

Joe...........there IS a difference in questioning one's position and being angry. I don't sense any anger in my post above.....and i should know.......I wrote it. Please don't claim I'm hateful because you want to snap react to what is posted.

Have a nice day. (even without prayer)

Thanks for the encouraging words Brett, God Bless You.

cheddar

cfrizz wrote:

Cheddar, the value of work is NOT more important than the value of the family, it is simply the necessity that BOTH parents have to work if they are going to survive!

A great many women are guilt stricken because they have no choice but to work & put their children into daycare. Or feel guilty that they couldn't give their children enough attention, stuff, whatever, because it was just her raising them & her time & money only went so far.

A great many women found out the hard way that you just CAN'T have it all, something has to give somewhere.

Men like Demi **** about women leaving to take care of their babies. I would also bet that he would call a man a wimp if he decided to stay home & be the full time parent. I would respect that man like there is no tomorrow!

I respect & admire every single married man on this board who hasn't been afraid to say that he loves & respects his wife & women in general and that he takes her feeling into consideration. And I have no use to the other men on this board who have derided those men for saying so!

On valuing the family we agree. I just think that some of the 'inequalities' in the Bible and elsewhere might also be to support areas in the family that might be neglected if both parents worked outside the family. Maybe not always put in the most politically correct way, but at least some of the 'inequalities' may have ended up ensuring that the roles were filled. I know it's not always possible to have a single wage earner today, as you've already said.

Also, I know that the Bible is a sensitive area for you and it's ok if you disagree. :cool:

hearingimpared

unc2701 wrote:

No, you wouldn't.

Up until the protestent reformation, just about all christians fell under the Roman Catholic church or the ones I've listed. 1517 was the year of Martin Luther's 95 theses or when western christians got a choice. Your remark that I needed forgiving for being a Roman catholic implys that god let a whole lot slide for 1500 years OR he was ok with the other non-RC christian churchs available until that point.

Other post:
325- year of the nicean council... even bigger than the protestant reformation in terms of 1)the content of the bible and 2)the beliefs of christians.

1611- (I think... it's been awhile) The year your favorite translation of the bible was written.

So there's this all powerful, all knowing being. Instead of laying it down for us mano a mano like he did with moses, he gets a few guys to write a bunch of books, a few more guys to pick out which books are for real and a few more guys to translate it properly into the vernacular of the 17th century. All knowing all powerful. Why didn't he just have them write it in modern english, bury it with the dead sea scolls and wait for us to dig it up 2000 years later?

Anyho, you keep telling us to read the bible... maybe you should read a little of its history?

oh- flying spaghetti monster. Internet thing. Google it, but it's a better creation story than either of the ones in Genesis.

Faith is faith. I need faith and with faith and belief in the Bible as the Word of God I have found peace and contentment as much as a human being can have it. I have attained a great measure of serenity the likes of which I never new when I had more money than most people, a nicer house, etc etc etc. By reading and studying the Bible and focusing on Christ my life has changed for the better. That is all the proof I need to know that the Bible is the Truth for this human being. I would be remiss in my duty to God to not pass that on no matter how it is received. I try not to shove it down people's throats as Brett feels that I do. . . if I am coming off that way to anyone then I deeply apologize. I reiterate, I would be remiss in my duty to God not to pass on what I have found.

Joe

hearingimpared

lanion wrote:

shack wrote:

There are those that believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God with each step along the way a result of the direct hand of God.
QUOTE]

if you believe this please be aware the English version is a translation, and when you translate something you put a lot of your own meaning and interpretation into it. The original Hebrew has a lot of puns and multiple interpretations that would be obvious to a native Hebrew speaker, but these intricacies are lost in translation.

I can give you some website that explain the history of the King James version of the Bible that may change your mind. If you are interested PM me.

Joe

hearingimpared

cheddar wrote:

Also, I know that the Bible is a sensitive area for you and it's ok if you disagree. :cool:

Cathy, I feel the same way I was just trying pass on what has been freely given to me. . . sorry if I offended you.
Joe

cfrizz

No one with one exception has offended me. I thank every single participant in this thread for exchanging meaningful dialog in a fairly polite & respectful manner.

Hopefully all of us has taken something of value from this thread, or has at least been entertained.