Why buy a DVDA/SACD player . . . Are DVDA/SACD players worth it? Weigh in . . .

SolidSqual
SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
edited October 2006 in Electronics
:confused:

To play Devil's advocate . . .People report great reviews on the improved sound quality and alternative experience to stereo, but if it's so good, why can't you buy a universal dvd player or a SACD at Best Buy?

Finally, answer the question, "Would you invest three hundred on a new Universal player, or would spend less on a CD player and save the rest of the money for other system upgrades?"

Can't wait to hear the responses.
Post edited by SolidSqual on
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    You can buy an SACD player at BB...
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp;jsessionid=GECSRQFJNJDOHKC4D3HVAGA?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=sacd&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories

    Yes it's worth the investment.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    They also sell SACD's, but at my local BB some asshat manger thought it would be a good idea to stick them in with all of the redbook CD's
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,809
    edited September 2006
    Why buy a DVDA/SACD player...

    Why not?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    If you can't hear the difference, then don't buy one.

    Where is this thread headed?
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • wallstreet
    wallstreet Posts: 1,405
    edited September 2006
    Worth it?? They cost the same as all the DVD players at BB. I've got one and I've never even used the SACD functionality.
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  • ntculenuff
    ntculenuff Posts: 1,146
    edited September 2006
    I was a non believer until i set a multi channel SACD/DVD-A system up at a customers house a few years ago and gave him a demo of Crystal Methods Legion of The Boom in multi channel DVD-A (something i knew very well in normal stereo) i was so impressed i bought the same dvd player the next day and have been hooked ever since.

    then i really started to listen to the differance of SACD vs. normal cd...
    YEAH ITS WORTH IT
    Speakers:
    Definitive BP7001sc mains
    Definitive C/L/R 3000 center
    Polk RT800i's rears
    Definitive supercube I Sub
    Audio:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010
    Emotiva XPA five Gen 3
    OPPO BDP-103 CD, SACD, DVD-A
    Video:
    Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
    OPPO BDP-103 Bluray
    Directv x's 2
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2006
    I have a SACD/CD player that DOES NOT play DVDs or DVD-As (and may or may not play MP3s - I wouldn't know since I own nothing in that format and probably never will). I also have a redbook CD/HDCD player. I will buy another SACD/CD if/when this one goes south. SACD is worth the price and the effort to find the titles IMO. Even SACD on an inexpensive Sony SCD-CE595 is very good.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited September 2006
    Am I the only one who thinks SACD/DVD-A isn't so great?

    Yeah, it's wonderful for parties, but for normal listening, it's unrealistic in its presentation of music. Initially, it's kinda cool, but after a while, it's time to switch back over to good 'ol 2-channel.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,809
    edited September 2006
    Early, all SACD's have hi-rez 2 channel layer and there's nothing unrealistic about it. In fact, it's effing GREAT!!!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    Early,
    Your mixing apples and oranges. Sounds like your talking about multi-channel. SACD is great in multi-channel and is even more impressive in two channel.

    It will also depend on everything that influences your redbook/2-channel taste.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2006
    The only SACD I ever listen to in MC is Dark Side of the Moon. I have my SACD player set to default to 2 channel. MC music is a gimmic that I rarely listen to. Like F1 said...2 channel SACD is great!
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited September 2006
    I tend to agree with "shack." If you have the right speakers, 2-channel audio should have no problem surrounding you with sound.
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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited September 2006
    I think it's well worth it if you find enough music you like on those 2 formats.

    My first SACD capable player was the $175.00 Sony DVP-NS500V, which is also a DVD player. I listen to my SACDs mostly on my headphones, Grado SR60, so nothing expensive or fancy. If the SACD is recorded/mastered with care, it's quite amazing. Of course, there will be good and bad recordings on any format. However, SACD has the potential to take the sonic performance to a level beyond regular CD. This is besides the format's capability to playback in multi-channel surround, of which I don't have the capability. The forementioned Sony SCD-CE595 is another excellent low cost SACD player....and its CD performance is quite good too.

    I have no experience with DVD-A, but I am itching to upgrade to an universal player around $300.00 so that I can have hi-rez music in that format as well.

    BTW, from the September editorial of AudiophileAudition.com....
    Odd that many publications have continually promulgated the view that there have been only a few releases in the audio-only SACD format so they consider it a failure. The fact is that there are many thousands of SACDs available - though many may have to be ordered from Europe or Asia because they are not distributed in North America. And certainly not in brick & mortar stores. In fact, we are currently struggling at Audiophile Audition to get the stacks of recent multichannel SACDs reviewed which have been provided to us!
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  • bknauss
    bknauss Posts: 1,441
    edited September 2006
    From a sound only standpoint its worth it, especially since its more or less a "free" feature on most DVD players now-a-days.

    On the other hand, both formats are not really all that popular. New formats are probably around the corner with the lossless formats like Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD. If you're looking to switch all of your CDs to SACDs and DVD-As, my personal feeling is don't and wait a bit for some better format to come out.
    Brian Knauss
    ex-Electrical Engineer for Polk
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,204
    edited September 2006
    Good luck finding new releases anywhere. Try finding the music you like.

    These are my only 2 problems with sacd and dvd audio. Not enough music and trying to find what aleady out at a local store.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited September 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    Early, all SACD's have hi-rez 2 channel layer and there's nothing unrealistic about it. In fact, it's effing GREAT!!!

    Oops. My bad. I always assume that most people with SACD/DVD-A players are listening to music in multi-channel mode.

    I wonder, then, how many of us with separate 2-channel systems use SACD/DVD-A players, especially if they're great for redbook playback as well?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,019
    edited September 2006
    I use mine only for 2-channel playback,we have had this topic gone over a gizzillion times.SACD in 2 channel is worth it,more realistic than multi.Almost like listening to records.And I don't think anyone listens to records in multi-channel.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • frreo1
    frreo1 Posts: 73
    edited September 2006
    It depends, Tony. Certainly, muuch of the surrond mixes are gimmicks, but not all. The Ivan Fischer recording of Dvorak 8/9 symphonies were recored in DSD surround to begin with, and it is stunning. The 2 channel version just does not cut it in the same manner. The DSD surround of Pink Floyd Dark side of the moon is much better in surrond, as is the Steve miller re-release of Fly Like an Eagle.

    The setup:

    Polk LSI 15's front and back
    Polk LSI C Center
    Polk LSI 7's Surronds
    Polk PSW 1000 Subwoofer
    Sony DA 9000ES Reciever
    Denon DVD 5910 DVD/CD Player
    Samsung LN-R 409D LCD HDTV
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  • wingnut4772
    wingnut4772 Posts: 7,519
    edited September 2006
    It's worth it if you really listen to music ...a lot. I am not sure of the future of these formats and they probably are a dying breed. If you do get a combo player, I would get all your favorite SACDs, DVDAs ASAP. I have a combo player and I really do not listen to SACDs or DVDAs too often - the sound is superior though.
    Sharp Elite 70
    Anthem D2V 3D
    Parasound 5250
    Parasound HCA 1000 A
    Parasound HCA 1000
    Oppo BDP 95
    Von Schweikert VR4 Jr R/L Fronts
    Von Schweikert LCR 4 Center
    Totem Mask Surrounds X4
    Hsu ULS-15 Quad Drive Subwoofers
    Sony PS3
    Squeezebox Touch

    Polk Atrium 7s on the patio just to keep my foot in the door.
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  • ntculenuff
    ntculenuff Posts: 1,146
    edited September 2006
    mantis wrote:
    Good luck finding new releases anywhere. Try finding the music you like.

    These are my only 2 problems with sacd and dvd audio. Not enough music and trying to find what aleady out at a local store.

    Dan

    i have found that online is the only way to find and get titles in these formats. no stores here really have a selection nore do they plan on getting one...which sucks cause i like to dig through cd's and records (which we dont have a store here that sales a large selection of either) just don't get the same satisfaction on line
    Speakers:
    Definitive BP7001sc mains
    Definitive C/L/R 3000 center
    Polk RT800i's rears
    Definitive supercube I Sub
    Audio:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010
    Emotiva XPA five Gen 3
    OPPO BDP-103 CD, SACD, DVD-A
    Video:
    Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
    OPPO BDP-103 Bluray
    Directv x's 2
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited September 2006
    SolidSqual wrote:
    if it's so good, why can't you buy a universal dvd player or a SACD at Best Buy?


    Why can't you buy a seperate amp, or a pre-amp, or a standalone tuner, or a decent turntable, or speakers that are actually worth listening to, at Best Buy?

    It's a niche market, and Best Buy markets to the mouth breathers in the world who wouldn't know good audio if it jumped out of their Sony boombox.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited September 2006
    OMG! I'm so glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this! ROFLMAO!!!!:D

    bobman1235 wrote:
    Why can't you buy a seperate amp, or a pre-amp, or a standalone tuner, or a decent turntable, or speakers that are actually worth listening to, at Best Buy?

    It's a niche market, and Best Buy markets to the mouth breathers in the world who wouldn't know good audio if it jumped out of their Sony boombox.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2006
    Good luck finding new releases anywhere. Try finding the music you like.
    Over 4,000 SACD titles. There should be a few that anyone could enjoy. Check them out here.

    http://www.sa-cd.net/
    Best Buy markets to the mouth breathers in the world who wouldn't know good audio if it jumped out of their Sony boombox.
    As far as BB is concerned...If you want to consider the Maganolia HiFi included in many of the stores, you will find Vienna Acoustics, REL, Sonus Faber, Martin Logan, McIntosh, Denon, B&K, AudioQuest and much more. Hardly mouth breather fare....
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited September 2006
    shack wrote:
    As far as BB is concerned...If you want to consider the Maganolia HiFi included in many of the stores, you will find Vienna Acoustics, REL, Sonus Faber, Martin Logan, McIntosh, Denon, B&K, AudioQuest and much more. Hardly mouth breather fare....

    That Magnolia stuff is basically high priced, audio eye candy. Yep, it's definitely mouth breather stuff. Nose breathing audiophiles don't shop there.:D
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • ntculenuff
    ntculenuff Posts: 1,146
    edited September 2006
    bobman1235 wrote:
    It's a niche market, and Best Buy markets to the mouth breathers in the world who wouldn't know good audio if it jumped out of their Sony boombox.

    i about fell off my chair when i read this
    Speakers:
    Definitive BP7001sc mains
    Definitive C/L/R 3000 center
    Polk RT800i's rears
    Definitive supercube I Sub
    Audio:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010
    Emotiva XPA five Gen 3
    OPPO BDP-103 CD, SACD, DVD-A
    Video:
    Panasonic TC-P65ZT60
    OPPO BDP-103 Bluray
    Directv x's 2
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,809
    edited September 2006
    I wonder, then, how many of us with separate 2-channel systems use SACD/DVD-A players, especially if they're great for redbook playback as well?

    I use a 2 channel only SACD/CD player, no DVD-A.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited September 2006
    Early B. wrote:
    That Magnolia stuff is basically high priced, audio eye candy. Yep, it's definitely mouth breather stuff. Nose breathing audiophiles don't shop there.:D
    Call me what you want, I'll take Vienna Acoustics (one of my favorite speaker mfg.), REL, Sonus Faber, Martin Logan, McIntosh gear in my rig anytime.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited September 2006
    CD just does not sample at a high enough rate, you can upsample but still the signal gets changed in a not so nice way. With all the settling for i-pod downloads by the masses its a tough road for high-rez. With the low sample rates the highs get harsh.

    I have a good collection of high rez, strictly 2 channel now, however I have read great reviews about the Mercury and RCA master tapes with 3 channel.

    Meridian just made a deal with Farajouda, now Meridian is a DVD-A company, I prefer SACD and only have a handful of DVD-A, both sound great I just prefer SACD, the Tri-Vista is a SACD machine so their you go.

    When you have a machine that does both video and audio there is always some compromise to the signal, its just the way they are built. Still my Denon and Pioneer universals sound(ed) great with high rez music. You need really good music for high rez to shine, so you see alot of jazz and classical, also the worry about copy protection is **** releases up, its about money not about what is good for the music lover.

    RT1
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,341
    edited September 2006
    reeltrouble1 wrote:
    . . . the worry about copy protection is **** releases up, its about money not about what is good for the music lover.RT1

    Amen RT! If SACD were coming at you with a digital signal instead of the analog via the protection circuitry, there would be less electronics in the signal path and SACD may be even better. I don't think that SACD copying would put them out of business. In fact, it might help boost the format if more people used it.
    Carl

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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited September 2006
    reeltrouble1 wrote:
    Meridian just made a deal with Farajouda, now Meridian is a DVD-A company....

    You need really good music for high rez to shine, so you see alot of jazz and classical, also the worry about copy protection is **** releases up, its about money not about what is good for the music lover.

    Meridian helped developed DVD-A and it has always been in the DVD-A camp. There're only a handful of these "DVD-A only" companies left....Meridian, Panasonic and Rotel. Even Arcam has introduced an universal player.

    An reason for a lack of pop/rock SACD releases is the greedy producers. When you have a hybrid multi-channel SACD, you get a version of the music as regular CD, another version as the stereo SACD, and yet another version of the same music as multi-channel SACD....all on one disc. Apparently greedy producers want 3X the royalties from one disc....which scared away the record companies.
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