High End v/s Mid End hifi

simphiwes

Just for curiousity sake, I'd love to know essentially what is the difference between the two(high end and mid end hi-fi). Are the differences really worth the extra $$$? i am talking sub $2000 per componet to above $5000 per component. What gets better?

ESavinon

Build quality,components used thruout,sound quality, you get the picture.

simphiwes

what in the sound quality is better?

ESavinon

more detail,better separation,more low end,etc.

simphiwes

Would this Combination be considered high end? Rotel RC1070 and RB1070 and B&W801S?

simphiwes

oh and RCD1072!

DarqueKnight

simphiwes wrote:

what in the sound quality is better?

Better components do less damage to the signal. They do not add as much noise and distortion. High quality components playing well recorded material provide an aural illusion that is closer to the sound generated by real instruments and voices.

A good analogy would be the increase in picture quality and realism as you look at more expensive televisions. An ordinary 40" CRT television can provide an excellent picture, but a 40" enhanced definition plasma TV would be noticeably better. A 40" high definition plasma would be even better.

ESavinon

The master blaster has spoken. kneel and thank raife.

Joey_V

If you stick with a certain brand, usually the more you spend, the higher up you move in the ideology that makes up the company's sound. As you go from company to company, price gives you an idea of which compares to what, but it doesnt necessarily mean a $5,000 speaker is better than another company's speaker that retails for only $4,000.

With regards to your components, I would consider that Mid-End, just because that is middle of the road in the Rotel arsenal.

ESavinon

The most important question is not what constitute mid or high end it's wether you're happy with the equipment you have.

My oppinion is to simply enjoy what you have.

simphiwes

Percentage wise how much "good" am i loosing out on from not buying high end (i know this may be diffficult to answer but Give it a try Guys). With the Rotel products which are consider High end?

LuSh

You've got two f#$kin ears, use them. Go to a dealer and listen.

zombie boy 2000

LuSh wrote:

You've got two f#$kin ears, use them. Go to a dealer and listen.

I don't think everyone's in that position, and considering where he is from -- this may very well be the case for him.

wingnut4772

LuSh wrote:

You've got two f#$kin ears, use them. Go to a dealer and listen.

I won't say it like that:p but I agree. You just have to listen. With each rig I set up I am convinced that it can't get better. When I upgrade to a nicer component though, it always does.

simphiwes

You've got two f#$kin ears, use them. Go to a dealer and listen.

its not always easy to go into a dealers shop and ask to listen to his top gear when you are proberbly not going to buy it, and half the time unless you are flashing a gold or platinum credit card he wont give you the time of day. but anyway i guess i'll never be able to experience that, just as well you guys helped put things into perspective. Some people around here can be nasty. :-(

thanks.

WilliamM2

You've got two f#$kin ears, use them. Go to a dealer and listen.

Nice. Not everyone can audition gear in person. I live in the US, and there still are no high end dealers within 500 miles. Thank BestBuy and Circuit City for that.

Joey_V

To hit the OP's question... I really dont think Rotel is high end in the sense that it isnt anywhere in the league of what high end costs, nor do they use the caliber of parts that the true high end products use.

That said, I believe that Rotel is really really good for the money and it gives you a taste of high end for a rather lower price. There are some Rotel products that truly stand out from their line, one in particular is the Rotel RB1090 amplifier.

I'm not going to be profane like Lush because it's not as simple as purely using your ears... there are always logistical reasons as to why one cannot hear a range of products and whether one is experienced enough in this hobby to be able to appreciate the intricacies of the audio ladder, so to speak.

DarqueKnight

simphiwes wrote:

Percentage wise how much "good" am i loosing out on from not buying high end (i know this may be diffficult to answer but Give it a try Guys).

This is impossible for anyone else to answer for you.

The first thing you need to establish is your musical reference goal. My primary listening preference is acoustic jazz. I know what acoutical instruments, piano, saxophone, upright bass, acoustic guitar, human voices, etc. sound like in a good acoustic environment. Live jazz music is my referece and my goal is to configure an audio system that will allow me to get as sonically close to that reference as financially practical.

For some people, coming close to their reference is not necessary. All they want is a pleasant sounding facimile of the reference.

Once you establish your audio reproduction goal(s), you will be able to evaluate equipment against that benchmark. This usually involves careful and critical listening to your live reference sounds and taking good notes on what you hear. You will also need to spend many hours listening to well-recorded reference material on various audio systems and then evaluating and making notes on what you hear. For example, take a reference caliber CD or analog record and listen to it on a high end, high resolution system. Make notes regarding the sounds you hear, how clear the sounds are, how distinct individual sounds are and what their positions are in the sound field in front of you. Next, listen to the same recording on a lesser quality system and make careful notes on what you hear. If you continue this process with gear at various price points, you will aquire some idea of what you are attaining and giving up as you move up and down the audio quality chain.

Remember that price does not always equate to quality. A $500 component might get you as close to your reference as a $1500 component.

When searching for equipment reviews, try to find a respected reviewer who has the same musical tastes and preferences as your own.

Like any hobby, it takes a while to find what really works for you. Good luck.

DarqueKnight

Joey_V wrote:

... there are always logistical reasons as to why one cannot hear a range of products and whether one is experienced enough in this hobby to be able to appreciate the intricacies of the audio ladder, so to speak.

Well said. There is no substitute for informed experience. In my case, I was always fortunate enough to live in areas where I had opportunities to listen to and evaluate quality gear at various price points.

PolkThug

simphiwes wrote:

Percentage wise how much "good" am i loosing out on from not buying high end (i know this may be diffficult to answer but Give it a try Guys). With the Rotel products which are consider High end?

28.7%

RuSsMaN

21.6% if he buys good cables.

univera

LuSh wrote:

You've got two f#$kin ears, use them. Go to a dealer and listen.

That was a pretty **** way of putting it. I don't think his questions were off line. I think he was looking for answers such as internal components used, etc that give the pieces a better build quality. Not just some abstract stuff like detail and "openess." Sometimes so much of the crap thrown in reviews, etc about "chocolate mids" and "sky blue" clarity etc. doesn't mean squat to many, including myself. Everyone's trying to learn.

I agree with the the guy who posted the original. I don't feel right many times going into my local shop, sucking up their time, listening to their gear, then going home and shopping it elsewhere. Have I done it-yes. Part of it is for the same reasons as most of us-we can't afford the top gear at new prices. But if one makes a regular habit of that, the owner will run the other way as soon as they see you, particularly locally run shops where you deal with the same people everytime. Additionally, these people usually know who can and can't afford the gear. Of course not always, but they have a general sense, especially if you have done business before with moderately priced pieces. So, cut this guy some slack instead of biting his f$%$cking head off.

shack

simphiwes wrote:

With the Rotel products which are consider High end?

Rotel is decent mid-fi gear. It's good gear, but I would never consider it high-end. That said, it may be more than adequate for what you want.

mantis

shack wrote:

Rotel is decent mid-fi gear. It's good gear, but I would never consider it high-end. That said, it may be more than adequate for what you want.

As I agree with this statement, Most consider Rotel high end. Most consider Denon to be high end. High end is relative to the person buying it.

I Install mid fi gear to high end gear and most of my clients think there systems are high end. Most of the systems consist of a Denon receiver and Polk speakers. To them this is a high end system. Mating it with there actual High end Plasma in a Pioneer Elite, total system cost do break 20k. Thats high end money to most.

With this question of what "HIGH END" is , well it's whats high end to you. I think once you get into B&K, Rotel , Sunfire , Intregra type stuff, your into the low end of high end. Even companies like Adcom can be considered High end. High end isn't always Krell and Classe type stuff. You can say that at that level your into Extreme High end.

Think about the avarage home theater guy. He owns a Basic receiver and some kind of theater in a box package.

To answer the question on how it's better, well in so many words that has been answered already on this thead. Just like cars, better cars are built better, they take care of you better but still get you from point A to B. How you want to get there is up to your bank account.

My advise is buy the best you can afford. The more you spend on this hobby, most of the time you get better products. Better products cost more then lower end products. Thats a fact.

Dan

josh_parsons626

Well what would be some good examples of "high-end" products? I always thought you go RSP-1098 pre/pro, RMB-1095 5-channel amp, and RB-1090 2-channel amp that was "high-end" hifi gear. Am I wrong somehow? Is there something out there considered more hifi than that?

DarqueKnight

simphiwes wrote:

......its not always easy to go into a dealers shop and ask to listen to his top gear when you are proberbly not going to buy it, and half the time unless you are flashing a gold or platinum credit card he wont give you the time of day.

When visiting dealers, I have always done is been upfront about my price range and asked for gear recommendations in that price range. In every case, the salesperson would show me stuff in my price range and would also show me better gear so that I could compare the differences in performance levels. They did not feel that they were "wasting time" by demonstrating gear that I could not afford at the time. Rather, they felt that they were cultivating a relationship with a potential repeat customer who most likely would be on a continual upgrade path as his audio knowledge and finances improved.

I know there are some dealers who treat visitors in a rude fashion if they don't come in ready to make an immediate, high-dollar purchase, but those establishments usually don't last very long and aren't worth your business anyway.

univera wrote:

......I don't feel right many times going into my local shop, sucking up their time, listening to their gear, then going home and shopping it elsewhere....But if one makes a regular habit of that, the owner will run the other way as soon as they see you, particularly locally run shops where you deal with the same people everytime.

Yeah, sucking up the dealer's time with no real possibility of a sale is not too cool. It probably wouldn't hurt to buy some lower priced audio accessory every now and then so that the dealer won't feel cheap and used. Who knows, if you get to know him/her, and spend a little cash with him/her, they might put you on to a good deal on some used gear.

tom t

Just go out and buy a soundcraftsmen amp and you will be ok

Joey_V

josh_parsons626 wrote:

Well what would be some good examples of "high-end" products? I always thought you go RSP-1098 pre/pro, RMB-1095 5-channel amp, and RB-1090 2-channel amp that was "high-end" hifi gear. Am I wrong somehow? Is there something out there considered more hifi than that?

The upper strata of the Rotel gears are up there in terms of hi-endness... and especially the 1090. I would certainly much rather spend $2K on the top of one company rather than $2K and get the bottom of another company's barrel, if that makes any sense.

Though, at the end of the day, Rotel is still on the lower end of true Hi-Fi. Others that are on the same block as Rotel include Parasound, Anthem, BK, Sunfire.

Stuff that are out of the ordinary league, Plinius, Levinson, Mcintosh, Krell, Theta, Cary, Hovland, BAT, Halcro.... etc...

Dont confuse lower end of HiFi with BestBuy grade though.... large gap between those two. I certainly dont consider Rotel as midfi, maybe their entry levels are, but for the upper echelon of their stuff, I think it's at the low side of Hi.

LuSh

Perhaps my answer was brash, but it was still the right answer. I'd say that you gain 10-20% moving into the "high-end" of audio. As it stands, for an audiophile "high end" usually means the equipment in question is made from high grade parts throughout.

The likes of NAD, Rotel, Arcam give you a taste by cutting on costs. Plastic vs brushed aluminium would be my criteria, or the first thing you'd notice on the outside. On the inside the engineering continues onward. Caps, speaker relay's, transformers...it all add's up. Much of what you start to pay for near the highest of high's is the designers interpretation of what music and high fi's marriage should be. Many designers begin to drift towards the "art" and less about the science at this point.

The reason I said use your ears, is the enjoyment of this hobby is the learning process one goes through. Only first hand experience can really drive home my point. You get sucked in, lose a grip on reality and somehow come full circle and land on your feet (usually). Somewhere during this process you identify your musical goals and play with gear that will get you closest to your musical goal. It is important to note that once you accept "high-fi" as a hobby and understand that upgrading is a path one goes through one might actually feel secure about their system and its goals and keep components for longer then 6months. Buying a system to early into this process and declaring "I'm done" is the kiss of death and will usually result in a total system overhaul in less then 1 year.

madmax

josh_parsons626 wrote:

Well what would be some good examples of "high-end" products?

You pretty much have to put a price with the question because it all depends on your outlook. I used to think Carver and Sunfire was high end. Now I understand there is really no limit until you get up to at least six figures. For example, I put close to a years salary in my turntable and accessories. A good friend complemented me on my nice mid level system. Now to me that is as high end as I could have imagined but from his point of view, just the table itself could have cost as much without the arm, cartridge, preamp etc.
madmax

univera

Lush makes a good point that hits home with me in terms of "buying a system too early in the process." Although I have been a Rotel/NAD (whatever level you make that to be) level audio person for the time being, I think it would be foolish for me to go out and drop big bucks on higher end stuff. I want to experience and learn the nuances of pieces at the under $2,000 (new) level so that I can truly appreciate the next level and figure out what I'm looking for in sound.

In reality, besides the sound benefits, there is plenty of ego riding in this discussion of high end vs. entry high end, etc. No one that has been thinking they have the dope gear wants to hear they aren't "HI-FI" level. Hmmm...compensation for something?