Landis fails drug test!!!!!!!!!!

MacLeod

Im going to stick up for Lance. He has been tested, tested and tested beyond th limits of common sense. He has been studied and there are countless organizations out there trying to prove that he was taking roids. To date, they have ALL come up with zilch!

As for Landis, high levels of testosterone does not mean he was juicing. There are a number of perfectly legal supplements that you can get over the counter that will do the same.

And as for baseball, what a sham! Barry Bonds is the biggest travesty. He's bigger than most pro bodybuilders yet everybody still wonders if hes taking anything. It is 100% certain he is. It is impossible to bulk up to 260 pounds at 2% bodyfat in a couple years time without them.

The punchline is they could easily nail them for drugs. Its not hard at all to test for roids, its just nobody has the desire. Baseball doesnt really want to crack down because 85 homeruns in a season sells tickets. Same with powerlifting and bodybuilding, 2 sports which I dig. Its ridiculous the size of these bodybuilders these days. Ronnie Coleman is the reigning champ and looks horrible. His stomach is so bloated its pathetic.

The worst part is the training tips they give in the magazines are worthless.

"You go into the gym, stare at a barbell real hard for 10 minutes then leave. Then you eat 10,000 calories and before you know it, youll be 280 lbs with 5% bodyfat!"

There are a couple guys that come into my gym that are juice heads. They workout so light its pathetic. They can get thru an entire chest routing before I can get thru 2 exercises. The reason is because when youre on roids, everything you do works. Unfortunately for us natural guys, its a lot different.

Demiurge

The rationalizations going on in this thread are hilarious.

The whole sport on a competitive level is completely ****, but simply because these guys are American they couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. :rolleyes: Plus you rely on weak testing standards to abdicate the cycling community of it's duty to the entire sport of it's widespread doping woes. I'm pretty much convinced that nothing short of a needle in any of these guys' arms would be evidence enough of cheating for some of you. Let's let the ICO start testing. Until that happens you won't see anything change, and we'll have the same rationalizations made for the winners just to make the home team feel better about themselves.

I wonder if this guy turned out to be a French Frog with the same level of evidence how quick everyone would be to indicte him.

Anyone feel like talking about drug masking (the reason so many get away with cheating), or would that be talking to a brick wall too?

Dennis Gardner

In 7 years, doped or not, noone could beat him. He beat all competitors and testers. I think that says it all. He was the best ever.;)

Sami

shack wrote:

Maybe...just maybe he is telling the truth. I think I'll opt on the side of believing him. If it were something other than testostorone he would be caught red handed. How in the hell can you prove his body didn't produce the higher levels? Guilty till proven inocent I guess.

A lot of the testosterone products are easily detected, especially the ones readily available.

bikezappa

The problem is you are comparing Landis's testosterone level to the average Frenchmans level which is close to zero.

PolkThug

bikezappa wrote:

The problem is you are comparing Landis's testosterone level to the average Frenchmans level which is close to zero.

LMFAO!!!!

shack

Sami wrote:

A lot of the testosterone products are easily detected, especially the ones readily available.

That's fine. PROVE he took a testostorone product and he should pay the penalty. Unless you can prove it was done by something other than natural processes then he should not be penalized. Again it is that assuption of guilt that if something is out of the norm then it MUST be cheating that bothers me.

bikezappa

Demiurge has a "hate On " for Lance period.

His rational is.

Because Lance is good and won 7 Tours that means he must be cheating.

Because other cyclists cheat Lance must cheat.

mldennison

so let me get this straight...in stage 16, he totally falls apart and falls 10 minutes behind the leaders. then the next day, he comes back and totally blows away the field and makes all the time up. that night he is tested for drugs and comes back positive!?! seems to be a prety big concidence.

PolkThug

shack wrote:

Unless you can prove it was done by something other than natural processes then he should not be penalized.

He tested at 4x's the average testosterone ratio. That's pretty damning.

zombie boy 2000

He's starting to play the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" card as well... and seem pretty resigned to being stripped of his title and a lengthy suspension. Interesting that there isn't much of a fight... just some thoughts.

shack

PolkThug wrote:

He tested at 4x's the average testosterone ratio. That's pretty damning.

But still not proof that his body didn't produce it.

bikezappa

Any Doctors in the house to help explain average testosterone levels?

Can the testosterone level go up one day and down the next?

I thought testosterone levels change very slowly. But I really don't know anything about it.

shack

zombie boy 2000 wrote:

He's starting to play the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" card as well... and seem pretty resigned to being stripped of his title and a lengthy suspension. Interesting that there isn't much of a fight... just some thoughts.

Why should he have any hope? The head of the testing agency has already said publicly that they are convinced that their test proves guilt.

up2youjoe

Who gives a **** about grown men riding bicycles. Sport my @ss!!!!!

shack

bikezappa wrote:

Any Doctors in the house to help explain average testosterone levels?

Can the testosterone level go up one day and down the next?

I thought testosterone levels change very slowly. But I really don't know anything about it.

Just what I have read says that a single use of a testostorone patch would not have any real benefits. He would have had to used testostorone supplements for a considerable amount of time prior to the test for them to be of any use, which would show up in prior tests. There are questions if some of the approved drugs for his hip and another medical condition may have affected the outcome of the tests.

PolkThug

yep, he's on cortisone which is a steroid.

Sami

shack wrote:

But still not proof that his body didn't produce it.

Yes it is.

shack

up2youjoe wrote:

Who gives a **** about grown men riding bicycles. Sport my @ss!!!!!

Thanks for your insightful and helpful contribution to the discussion. It really means a lot. :rolleyes:

shack

Sami wrote:

Yes it is.

News to me. The result PROVES he took a testostorone supplement?

Sami

PolkThug wrote:

yep, he's on cortisone which is a steroid.

Yes, but not anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) which are all some forms of test.

Sami

shack wrote:

News to me. The result PROVES he took a testostorone supplement?

4x is not a result of natural production.

bikezappa

I don't understand how testosterone levels can change in one day. What was the test results the day before and after he tested positive?

I thought hormones were slow acting?

bikezappa

Floyd Landis is poised to make the wrong kind of history if his counter-analysis comes back positive: he could become the first Tour de France winner to lose his crown for a doping violation.


Landis may become the first rider in 102 years to be stripped of the yellow jersey


On Thursday, Landis vehemently denied allegations he doped en route to winning the wild 2006 Tour, but if results of his "B" sample confirm initial tests that revealed "unusual" testosterone levels in his urine, Landis could lose his Tour victory.

"All I want to do is ask that everybody take a step back," Landis said. "All I'm asking for is just that I be given a chance to prove that I'm innocent. Cycling has a traditional way of trying people in the court of public opinion before they ever get a chance to do anything else. I can't stop that. But I would like to be assumed innocent until proven guilty, since that's the way we do things in America."

The counter-analysis is expected within the next several days. Landis wouldn't reveal his location in Europe, but he has the right to witness the test at the Ch

shack

The T/E ratio can vary widely within individuals, and in some cases the T/E ratio may be above the 4:1 ratio without doping while others can stay below the threshold despite cheating. The ratio tends to be constant over time, but wild swings may indicate doping. Other factors can cause swings in the ratio, such as dehydration, fatigue and even alcohol.

The T/E ratio is not a sure-fire way to measure testosterone in the body, but it's the only detection method currently used under anti-doping controls.

Other riders have been caught up in the T/E ratio web and some have been cleared after proving with endocrine testing they have naturally high occurring testosterone levels.

Last year's Dauphin

Demiurge

You had 4 guys suspended right before the race, including 2 favorites. You have Landis fall out of contention late in the race, and then he comes back the next day with the strength of 10 men, but hey -- it's so hard to imagine him cheating. :rolleyes:

The likely truth is they may never find out what he was specifically on, but most here don't want even to acknowledge drug masking. The guy likely wasn't injecting conventional roids into his blood stream because they're so easily detected, that's the point.

bikezappa

Testosterone 101
By The Associated Press
This report filed July 28, 2006
Questions of possible use of a banned steroid by Tour de France champion Floyd Landis were raised because of a urine test that spots elevated levels of performance-enhancing testosterone.

The test detects both testosterone and a related steroid called epitestosterone, which is not performance-enhancing. Both are produced by the body and are also made in synthetic form.

Landis's Phonak team said his urine sample showed "an unusual level of testosterone/epitestosterone" when he was tested after his amazing come-from-behind performance in the 17th stage of the race on July 20. The usual ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone is about 1 to 1 or 2 to 1, said Gary Wadler, a physician and member of the World Anti-Doping Agency.

Suspicions of improper steroid use arise when the ratio climbs above four parts testosterone over one part epitestosterone, Wadler said. Officials have not said what ratio Landis's test showed.

Andrew Pipe, a physician and medical and scientific adviser to the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sports in Ottawa, says that synthetic testosterone is normally injected, but taking it in the middle of an athletic competition would have little effect in boosting performance.

"Anabolic steroids, of which testosterone is the granddaddy, can have a central nervous system effect," he said. "But anabolic steroids largely work by increasing the capacity for training and increasing the bulk and tolerance of muscles. That isn't going to happen in a few hours.

"The effect of the testosterone is not going to be experienced unless there's a very significant training endeavor associated with it as well."

Pipe cautioned that the initial uproar over the high levels of testosterone detected in Landis's system may prove to be premature, depending on the outcome of additional testing that will have to be carried out before a definitive judgment is made. Taken by itself, he said, an elevated testosterone finding in the rider's A urine sample is enough to raise suspicions, but it does not automatically implicate the athlete as a doping cheat.

"I think it's very important that people take a deep breath and understand the implications and significance of what's being reported," Pipe said last night. He said that some men have naturally high levels of testosterone. For this reason, Pipe said it is imperative that the levels found in Landis during the Tour de France be compared with testosterone levels that have been detected in drug tests that have likely been carried out in the past on all the riders, not just Landis.

If no such comparable data is available, Pipe said, the rider will have to be tested again in the future. For this reason, Pipe said he was surprised that the findings from Landis's A sample have been made public. "The last thing I would want is for the suspected athlete to know that we're on to the fact that he or she may have an unusually high TE ratio and that we may have to administer further tests."

F1nut

For this reason, Pipe said he was surprised that the findings from Landis's A sample have been made public. "The last thing I would want is for the suspected athlete to know that we're on to the fact that he or she may have an unusually high TE ratio and that we may have to administer further tests."

French lab.....American rider, I smell a frog!

F1nut

Testosterone can build muscle and improve recovery time when used over a period of several weeks, said Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency and a spokesman for the American College of Sports Medicine. But if Landis had been a user, his earlier urine tests during the tour would have been affected, he said.

"So something's missing here," Wadler said. "It just doesn't add up."

Like I said, I smell a frog!

zombie boy 2000

It's not like the French press has anything against American riders:D