Landis fails drug test!!!!!!!!!!

zombie boy 2000

this just in:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/more/specials/tour_de_france/2006/07/27/landis.doping/index.html?cnn=yes

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/tdf2006/news/story?id=2531225 (a little more info...)


Holy Crap!!!!

Demiurge

No surprise there, being one of the most corrupt sports with the most lax testing policies. They've ramped it up a little more over the years. I said the same thing about Lance. The most dominant man in a sport full of blood doping, it would be irrational to not entertain the thought.

I got into a nice fight about that here a few years ago, and everyone claimed there is no way. Well, one down here.

zombie boy 2000

I imagine the French are having a field day with this one....

wingnut4772

Oui Oui!!! too much testosterone in the wee wee!

zombie boy 2000

wingnut4772 wrote:

Oui Oui!!! too much testosterone in the wee wee!

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Good one Darla:D

bikezappa

I got into a nice fight about that here a few years ago, and everyone claimed there is no way. Well, one down here.
__________________
I just siad back then that Lance had NEVER tested positive on any test in his life time. If your opinion is that Lance uses drugs that's ok but it's just your opinion. It's not a fact backed up with any data. You either trust the drug testing or you don't. You can't have it both ways. By that I mean, if he tested positive he is on drugs, but if he doesn't test positive he must be on drugs also because many others are. That doesn't make sense to me.



This is very sad to have Landis test positive. It could just kill the sport.
I wonder what his excuse will be?

I think there was no testing of drugs in baseball for many years, so to say cycling is the worst is not very accurate. Look at Ted Willams and Barry Bonds and tell me who is one the juice? Many sports use drugs if they can get away with it. I don't think the golfers use them. Not yet anyway.

zombie boy 2000

I don't think it will kill the sport internationally, but it just might here in America. A lot of time, energy, effort, and advertising went into making cycling somewhat accepted here in the states. Kind of makes you long for the days of Greg Lemond and Andy Hampsten....

ohskigod

help me out here, but he tested positive for testosterone, but dont we all have that naturally?

so are they saying he took steroids? Testosterone itself (if possible)?

anyone that can clarify, that would be great

bikezappa

If riders know they will be tested for drugs and removed if positive, they will stop using the drugs. This is not rocket science.

These riders are just stupid or get bad advice from stupid coaches.

Demiurge

bikezappa wrote:

I got into a nice fight about that here a few years ago, and everyone claimed there is no way. Well, one down here.
__________________
I just siad back then that Lance had NEVER tested positive on any test in his life time. If your opinion is that Lance uses drugs that's ok but it's just your opinion. It's not a fact backed up with any data. You either trust the drug testing or you don't. You can't have it both ways. By that I mean, if he tested positive he is on drugs, but if he doesn't test positive he must be on drugs also because many others are. That doesn't make sense to me.

This is very sad to have Landis test positive. It could just kill the sport.
I wonder what his excuse will be?

I think there was no testing of drugs in baseball for many years, so to say cycling is the worst is not very accurate. Look at Ted Willams and Barry Bonds and tell me who is one the juice? Many sports use drugs if they can get away with it. I don't think the golfers use them. Not yet anyway.

It's naive to assume he wasn't. He didn't get busted, so yes, he's not guilty. As I pointed out way back when, the drug testing in cycling is some of the worst in the world, and it's always been corrupt. If you want to think Lance is the greatest guy in the world that's just fine be me, but I would say my suspicions are more substantiated now than ever before.

You've had a good number of world class athletes in cycling just dropping dead of heart attacks while doing non-strenuous exercise. Then people deny the sport is full of blood doping cheaters? Lance isn't any more superhuman than the rest, not by the margin he was, especially in a sport where cheating is so rampant.

I don't recall saying my opinion was ever fact, just an opinion made surrounded by factual evidence.

I love American chest pounding as much as the next guy, but just ignoring all of the abnormalities is accepting everything on face value without question.

The one thing that's for sure is that Landis was doping.

shack

Phonak said Landis would ask for an analysis of his backup "B" sample "to prove either that this result is coming from a natural process or that this is resulting from a mistake."

I'll wait and see what the results show. I would think it might be normal for the body to produce large amounts of testosterone when you push your body to the level he did on that day, trying to get back in the race.

zombie boy 2000

Also, I wonder what kind of medications he might have been taking for his arthritic hip.... and what kind of role (if any) they might have played...

Demiurge

ohskigod wrote:

help me out here, but he tested positive for testosterone, but dont we all have that naturally?

so are they saying he took steroids? Testosterone itself (if possible)?

anyone that can clarify, that would be great

There are new drugs on the market by the day. 'Doping Experts' can mask drugs that make them undetectable. Landis was likely taking something his supplier thought wouldn't be caught by the current testing procedures. Masking the drugs is nothing new.

bikezappa

Yes you can take extra testosterone or other similar steriods. If the testosterone level is much higher than normal you test positive. I don't think there is much controversy here regarding what is normal and what will get you a positive test. Landis tested positive on two tests for steriods from a urine test on stage 17 I think.

By the way Landis didn't got to the last two races on 6/25 and 6/36 and gave no reason.

Ron-P

Holy Crap!!!!

Why so surprised? All our sports figures are druggies. Sports are nothing but a joke to watch anymore, there is no sport in sporting events anymore.

bikezappa

Demiurge

Do you think baseball players take drugs?

Has any player tested positive for drugs in baseball?

What player has been suspended for drugs from baseball?

shack

Demiurge wrote:

Lance isn't any more superhuman than the rest, not by the margin he was, especially in a sport where cheating is so rampant.

How Lance Armstrong Gets His Unusual Energy

By SANDRA BLAKESLEE
Published: June 14, 2005

Lance Armstrong's strength and endurance sometimes seem too extraordinary to be believed.

Armstrong, a six-time winner of the Tour de France bicycle race who next month will try for his seventh straight victory, can cover 32 miles in one hour of riding. In contrast, the average cyclist covers 16 miles; a top marathon runner can cover 21 miles on a bike.

Lance Armstrong can cover 32 miles in one hour of cycling. Armstrong can ride up the mountains in France generating about 500 watts of power for 20 minutes, something a typical 25-year-old could do for only 30 seconds. A professional hockey player might last three minutes - and then throw up.

So how does he do it?

According to a scientist who studied Armstrong at regular intervals from 1992 to 1999, his prowess can be explained by a set of physiological changes that took place in his body over those seven years and that, in all probability, are continuing.

The changes are described in an article titled "Improved Muscular Efficiency Displayed as Tour de France Champion Matures" in the June issue of The Journal of Applied Physiology.

The scientist, Dr. Edward Coyle, director of the Human Performance Laboratory at the University of Texas, has studied cyclists for 25 years. He says they need large hearts and low levels of lactic acid - the byproduct of intense exercise - in their blood. Their efficiency, measured as how many watts of cycling power are generated for a given cycling input, needs to be high.

"Lance came to us when he was 20 years old, very early in his career," Dr. Coyle said. "He wanted to know what he could do to improve himself."

Armstrong, Dr. Coyle said, indeed had an exceptionally large heart and low lactic acid. "But his muscle efficiency was not very good," he said. "It came in at 21 percent. That first year two other athletes we studied were better."

Armstrong showed subsequent improvements until his career was stopped short in 1996 with a diagnosis of testicular cancer. Eight months after his treatment ended, he was back in the Austin laboratory.

"He wanted to know if anything was permanently wrong," Dr. Coyle said.

They took measurements and found nothing to stop him, except his own willingness to compete.

Armstrong did compete. "In the next two years his heart got even better, his lactic acid dropped further and, amazingly, his efficiency increased to 23 percent," Dr. Coyle said.

That may not sound like much, but it means that for the same level of oxygen consumption, Armstrong gets more power to the pedals. By taking off body weight, he was delivering 18 percent more power to his muscles.

There is only one way such efficiency could improve, Dr. Coyle said: more slow-twitch muscles, the type that do not burn out quickly and that are used in standing or walking. Fast-twitch muscles, which burn out fast, are used for sprinting and heavy lifting.

Rodent studies show that chronic stimulation to muscle tissue increases the amount of slow-twitch fibers, Dr. Coyle said. Armstrong appears to have increased the proportion of his slow-twitch muscles from 60 percent to 80 percent.

In bicycle races, slow-twitch fibers are up to twice as efficient as fast twitch.

Demiurge wrote:

The one thing that's for sure is that Landis was doping.

We do not know that for sure....yet. It may be so but let the investigation run it's course. All they know for sure is that he had unusually high levels of testosterone.

Demiurge

bikezappa wrote:

Demiurge

Do you think baseball players take drugs?

Has any player tested positive for drugs in baseball?

What player has been suspended for drugs from baseball?

Yes.

Yes, if I recall correctly.

That I have no idea of. I'm not a fan of the sport.

Are we talking about baseball or cycling?

All I care about are what the rules are. If the NFL wanted to legalize the use of steroids in the NFL, and the government would allow it, so be it. The point is that it's cheating in any sport that doesn't allow it.

bikezappa

Shack that was a very interesting article. I coach a women's pro bike team and always told them that Lance has a very different pedaling style. Basically he used his calf mucsles to flex his foot up and down while pedaling. They used to call this ankling way back when. The angle between the shin and foot change while Lance pedaled. Many riders now do this. You need to record this pedal action of the rider and play it back in slow motion to really see it.

bikezappa

Demiurge

I'm talking about base ball.

I campare the drug issue to basevball because you said cycling is the worst sport for testing of drugs. I wondered why.

Who got suspended from baseball for talking drugs?

Is basball any better than cycling?

I agree it's cheating.

ahorvitz

bikezappa wrote:

Demiurge

Do you think baseball players take drugs?

Has any player tested positive for drugs in baseball?

What player has been suspended for drugs from baseball?

This wasn't directed toward me, but I'll offer...

Yes, I think baseball players took, take, and will take drugs.

There are a number of players who have tested positive and have been suspended. Here's the steroid list, since they've been testing.... (from Wikipedia)... and there were others before for a range of narcotics.

Player Team Date announced Penalty
Alex S

Demiurge

bikezappa wrote:

Demiurge

I'm talking about base ball.

I campare the drug issue to basevball because you said cycling is the worst sport for testing of drugs. I wondered why.

Who got suspended from baseball for talking drugs?

Is basball any better than cycling?

I agree it's cheating.

Comparing the two is a non-sequitur. Baseballs testing policies are completely different than Cyclings testing policies, and I'm not apologizing for the problems in the MLB. I just don't care about that sport.

The testing in cycling is:

being one of the most corrupt sports with the most lax testing policies.

In any event, cycling is an individual sport, while baseball is a team sport. It's like comparing apples to oranges, not to mention the two are completely different organizations.

I'll let this one play out, because I don't really feel like arguing about a guy who isn't even competing in the sport on a worldwide stage any longer. I have my feelings, and you have yours. What's coming down on Landis doesn't surprise me one bit, and it doesn't matter if he's an American or a French frog. Cheating is wrong, and it's only destroying sports.

bikezappa

WOW!

Ahorvitz thanks. I never heard about that.

How long have they been testing? They only suspended players in 2005.

Do you know what the story/data is in football and basketball?

shack

Demiurge wrote:

I'll let this one play out, because I don't really feel like arguing about a guy who isn't even competing in the sport on a worldwide stage any longer. I have my feelings, and you have yours.

since you brought it up....

Demiurge

shack wrote:

since you brought it up....

Same sport, same team, sorry for connecting dots. My arguments stand on the other thread if anyone feels like bumping it up and talking about it, but I am done. There's nothing more I can say.

bikezappa

In any event, cycling is an individual sport, while baseball is a team sport.

That statement is completely wrong. I know most people in the US think that. You can't win the Tour by yourself any more than a one man baseball team can win a game. The cycle team (of 9 people I think in the Tour) keeps the pace of the pelaton fast, paces the team leader up hills, gives lead outs, gets food and water from the support car during 150 miles of racing to name just a few. Cycling is a team sport.

I guess what I don't understand about Demiurge is why you have a "hate on" for Lance, but no other sport person. How many years did baseball players take drugs with no testing? They have tested for drugs in cycling for many years yet you say they are the worst. Why cycling and not weightlifting? Doesn't make sense to me. Where is the logic because you are saying NO testing is better than flawed teatsing, I think.

Anyway enough is enough.

aaharvel

Steroids in cycling?!? Get outta town.

ClemmonsHoo

"Cycling is one of the most corrupt sports with the most lax testing."

Are you serious, or is this a joke??? Rhetorically speaking, what other sport ushers its winners immediately to the testing trailer after said win? What other sport sends testing personnel to athletes' homes unannounced to get testing samples? What other sport saves samples to be tested at a later date when technology is better or new suspicions are raised? What other sport suspends it's athletes at the mere accusation of doping without any proof? Sheesh!

And since baseball was brought up, how corrupt can you get? As long as they keep making money and keep drawing in fans needing to see records broken, their doping policies will continue to be token at best.

Demiurge

ClemmonsHoo wrote:

Are you serious, or is this a joke???

Happy Reading

zombie boy 2000

And now an exclusive interview with Landis by SI:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/index.html

shack

Maybe...just maybe he is telling the truth. I think I'll opt on the side of believing him. If it were something other than testostorone he would be caught red handed. How in the hell can you prove his body didn't produce the higher levels? Guilty till proven inocent I guess.