Let's start a fight

tonyb

After reading a bunch of posts this morning and finding out that some people still don't get it,How many members here are 2 channel and how many are home theater? How many both?Here is my take on the 2 channel crowd and the HT camp.You simply cannot do both with a rig set up for HT.The settings
in your gear are most likely different for the two.A sub,while great for HT,has no place in 2 channel,good 2 channel.Same for a center channel.Since most off us are not related to Bill Gates,and find it hard to do 2 sep. rigs,alot of people are buying AVR's and then wanting more.Avr's have their place,don't get me wrong,but when it comes down to it,music is an after thought in most avr's.Read the posts,so many members here are falling over themselves with glee when they add a tubed pre,or a tubed cdp,or even vinhl has made a huge comback.Wow,music sounds like that????Thats what you hear.A sep amp,yes sir,makes a huge diff.My whole point is,yes there is one,when building a system,decide whats more important to you and choose gear to obtain that goal wisely.Sooo many members here with such a variety of gear
always happy to see a newb joyfull from the advice given by members here.
Happy frickin 4-day weekend!!!!Yahoooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

george daniel

Wife= HT
Mine= L&R

Gaara

I do both and love the way it turned out. On the HT side I've got the Elite 47-Ai, Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 as sources. The preamp is a B&K Ref 50 (hopefully to soon be replaced by a IR RDC-7.1), which has crossover duty taken care of by a Outlaw ICBM. As for power the front L+R are powered by a Cinenova Grande 5, and a Gallo SA Amp to drive the second voice coil. The surrounds are also powered by the Cinenova, and the rear surrounds are powered by a Rotel RB-1070. For deep bass I have a Supernova MKIV-12 with EQ being performed by a Behringer BFD, as well as a Buttkicker being powered by their own BKA amp (with a Harrison labs attenuator to help with to much gain). The speakers are Gallo Ref 3.1 in front, LSi Fxs for surrounds, and Gallo Dues for rears.

Now as for two channel, the L+R from my Ref 50 goes through the HT Bypass of a Modwright SWL 9.0SE tubed preamp. As for source on the two channel side I have a Jolida JD-100SR with GE 3 Mica 5751 tubes (70% gain) with Rothwell Attenuators (less gain). This is all being powered again by the Cinenova and Gallo SA Amp, to my Gallo 3.1s. When listening to two-channel the only equipment on is my SWL, Jolida, Cinenova, Gallo Amp, and ICBM(always on). The 3.1s do not travel through the ICBM...there is no need, and I much prefer the bass from my Gallos then the Supernova. The whole system is powered by a Monster HTPS 7000SS hooked into a AVS2000SS, hooked into a dedicated Carol 20amp line with a PS-Audio Outlet. Power for the Cinenova is it's own 20amp line, and the buttkicker and eq are hooked into a 15amp line along with two clocks and one light inline.

So you can IMO have a great two channel system combined with a great surround sound system. The key is finding a 2-channel preamp with HT Bypass...I love mine.

Jared

tonyb

My wife was like that too,until i sold the SRT's went with new speaks and a new amp.now she's all about the 2 channel.Next is a tubed pre in my future to kick it up a notch.

tonyb

Gaara wrote:

I do both and love the way it turned out. On the HT side I've got the Elite 47-Ai, Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 as sources. The preamp is a B&K Ref 50 (hopefully to soon be replaced by a IR RDC-7.1), which has crossover duty taken care of by a Outlaw ICBM. As for power the front L+R are powered by a Cinenova Grande 5, and a Gallo SA Amp to drive the second voice coil. The surrounds are also powered by the Cinenova, and the rear surrounds are powered by a Rotel RB-1070. For deep bass I have a Supernova MKIV-12 with EQ being performed by a Behringer BFD, as well as a Buttkicker being powered by their own BKA amp (with a Harrison labs attenuator to help with to much gain). The speakers are Gallo Ref 3.1 in front, LSi Fxs for surrounds, and Gallo Dues for rears.

Now as for two channel, the L+R from my Ref 50 goes through the HT Bypass of a Modwright SWL 9.0SE tubed preamp. As for source on the two channel side I have a Jolida JD-100SR with GE 3 Mica 5751 tubes (70% gain) with Rothwell Attenuators (less gain). This is all being powered again by the Cinenova and Gallo SA Amp, to my Gallo 3.1s. When listening to two-channel the only equipment on is my SWL, Jolida, Cinenova, Gallo Amp, and ICBM(always on). The 3.1s do not travel through the ICBM...there is no need, and I much prefer the bass from my Gallos then the Supernova. The whole system is powered by a Monster HTPS 7000SS hooked into a AVS2000SS, hooked into a dedicated Carol 20amp line with a PS-Audio Outlet. Power for the Cinenova is it's own 20amp line, and the buttkicker and eq are hooked into a 15amp line along with two clocks and one light inline.

So you can IMO have a great two channel system combined with a great surround sound system. The key is finding a 2-channel preamp with HT Bypass...I love mine.

Jared

Well,you really have a great combo rig,not a HT rig thats not doing it for ya on music.And the way you have it set-up is perfect.Thats my whole point,choose the gear wisely.Your a perfect example my friend,congrats on putting together a great rig.

Gaara

Thanks it took a lot of time and effort...and months...wait years of reading to get it all right. Like you said, it is very tough to get a good HT setup that sounds good with 2-channel as well. Some pre-amps do it, but most of which I read about that really rival good 2-channel preamps were in the $5000+ range. Then you have to really work hard on picking a perfect source, since the pre-amp will be run in direct mode and will have little to no effect on the sound. Most of the time when I read about these type systems it is $3000+ cd transports with $2000+ DAC with $5000+ preamps. Then again they also usually will have a $10,000+ amp...a little to rich for me.

tonyb

You are spot on.But a good combo rig can be had without haveing to sell
your first born to do it.But now tell me.there is no way in hell you can get the sound you have now out of any avr.Your modwright is a killer.Probably
made all the difference in the world to you.What piece would you say gave you the best and most significant sound upgrade?

wingnut4772

I just have one set up and the emphasis is on HT but I do listen to 2 channel with my gear and I really love the sound on my system.

Gaara

Thats a tough one to answer, becuase everything made such a huge difference. I mean going from a Yamaha HTR-5590 ($800 receiver) to my Ref 50 and Cinenova seperates was huge. I was hearing thing I never heard before, began to really listen to music on my rig, and that was the first time I really thought all the money I put into it was worth it.

Getting the Modwright was another huge moment, before this point I would always listen to music while walking around and doing other things. Once I got it I enjoyed it so much that I would actually sit in the sweet spot and listen, sometimes for hours. In a average week I now listen to around five hours of just music, never did that before this piece.

Going with the Gallos to up front was another big change. I love the LSi 9s and still do, but never really liked the bass comming from my Supernova for music. It did not integrate to well with the 9s, and I liked it a little hot for movies, which ruined the music. Going with a full range speaker like the Gallos made a huge difference, I love the bass in these things, not to mention they throw a huge soundstage and have precision accuracy. I also like to lie down while listening, with my head closer to the right speaker then the left, not a issue for these guys.

I would probably say the modwright was the biggest improvment, followed very closely by the Gallos. Best cheap upgrade was my eq I got for $75, made a world of difference in my subs bass.

Jared

tonyb

Take notes newbies,Jared is a prime example of the evolution towards better music from a HT rig:D

BTW- Did I say...Happy frickin 4-day weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D
Almost forgot.....YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tonyb

wingnut4772 wrote:

I just have one set up and the emphasis is on HT but I do listen to 2 channel with my gear and I really love the sound on my system.

Nice stuff you have WING,but tell me,when listening to 2-channel are you running the sub and the center?Have you tried with just the two Vons up front?
Trying to stay away from the whole 5.1 surround music issue.

tonyb

Can I get a yahoo from any one on the 4-day weekend thing,jeez!!

Gaara

yahoo

janmike

wingnut4772 wrote:

I just have one set up and the emphasis is on HT but I do listen to 2 channel with my gear and I really love the sound on my system.

BOTH as well.
I am in the same boat and NO the centre and sub are not engaged when I listen to music. When I select CDP on the processor, it knows how many speakers, type of connections, source.....

WilliamM2

There are a few ways to get both HT and 2 channel from one rig.

On mine, I use an AVR as a pre pro for HT. My front power amp has 2 switchable inputs, for HT it gets it's signal from the AVR, for 2 channel I have a Marantz CD player hooked directly to the other input. So for two channel the only thing in the signal path is the CD player and power amp, no sub, no surrounds, and I dont even turn the AVR on.

TroyD

I don't see why HT and 2ch can't coexist peacefully....

I started HT and migrated back to 2ch. While the cool factor for HT is there....half **** 36.whatever is bested by well done 2.0, IMHO. Now, for ambient rear noise, I do have in my Living Room rig, a Dynaco Quadaptor. While I'm sure it's not Dolby Digital or THX, it works for me.

BDT

janmike

TroyD wrote:

I don't see why HT and 2ch can't coexist peacefully....

They can to a certain extent. It depends on the gear that is driving everything.

wingnut4772

tonyb wrote:

Nice stuff you have WING,but tell me,when listening to 2-channel are you running the sub and the center?Have you tried with just the two Vons up front?
Trying to stay away from the whole 5.1 surround music issue.

Yep. Just Stereo.

BlueMDPicker

tonyb wrote:

A sub,while great for HT,has no place in 2 channel,good 2 channel.

Pffft!
You did want to fight no?

BTW - YAHOO for the 4-day weekend!!

I-SIG

I'm 2-channel all the way, but a good sub has every right to be in a good stereo rig. I've discovered unknown material on a nice minority of my CD's that I never would have been able to appreciate without a sub. And yes, that is in lieu, of my SRS's. Not to mention the fuller scale a sub brings to well-recorded live performances.

Wes

RuSsMaN

A sub is a lot harder to integrate, but it most certainly does have a place in two channel listening. I used to be in the other camp, and I have seen (heard) the light.

Shizelbs

I see no reason why a properly integrated sub cannot be part of a two channel rig.

I don't think you have to be Bill Gates to have two seperate rigs. Although, i'll admit its probably best to just focus on one.

BlueMDPicker

I-SIG wrote:

I've discovered unknown material on a nice minority of my CD's that I never would have been able to appreciate without a sub.

Same experience here. With digital source material, running through relatively low-powered tube gear, I was amazed what a well-integrated (spot on, Russ) sub brought to the presentation.

Conversely, with analog source material, running through relatively high-powered SS gear--and, driving SDA SRS, I find no discernable advantage with a sub.

WilliamM2

It's not really the cost of two rigs that keeps me from having a seperate system for two channel and HT, it's the fact that I only have one room that I consider large enough for decent sound.

janmike

I own a SVS and a REL sub. The SVS is great for HT and REL is very smooth for music.

mulveling

I built my rig with only 2ch music in mind. However I also enjoy HT immensely on it. I've had a couple decent 5.1 HT rigs before, and I didn't enjoy music nearly as much. Actually, the quality of my front 2 are so much higher now that HT is more enjoyable than with the pervious 5.1 setups as well (and again, what I had before wasn't garbage by any standard). IMO is a system can do music well, it can do anything well, and 2ch is the way to go for music.

Now, the main problem for using 2ch as a truly high-end HT is the .1 LFE channel - most downmixing algorithms cut this channel out completely when going to 2ch (even if your mains are easily capable of 20Hz). So ideally, one would have to handle this channel somehow, whether mixing it back into the 2ch signal or supporting a sub/subs used only for HT (haven't quite figured out a way that satisfies me yet). On subs, if you must have a sub, IMO 2 is the way to go - and the best way by far to listen to stereo music with a sub (if you must) is with stereo subs.

Of course, if I had a house with extra rooms and funds at my disposal, I'd certainly have two dedicated systems - 1 HT and 1 2ch (both Legacy systems ) - but given my current constraints I give 2ch the big priority.

polkatese

I've been integrating REL Storm sub with LSi15 for two channels, and it is really to enhance and tighten midbass spectrum. I tried it with LSi9 with less desirable result. LSi15 has sloppy midbass by itself, but, pairing it with a REL change it for the (a lot) better. It brings out the tightness and details. For HT, my Velo DD has been doing a great job.

mutelight

My system is about 90% movies/TV/gaming and 10% music. The only time I really listen to music is right after class when I get home and I just want to unwind or when friends are over. Undoubtedly my setup is geared towards HT but at the same time I am a home audio noob so compared to my previous setups I am more than happy with its performance no matter what the source.

AndyGwis

I am on the path to 2-channel enlightenment as well. After purchasing an entry level HT setup, music sounded pretty good in stereo on the monitor 60's, but I knew there was much more out there. I have since experimented with several power amps, which really helped stereo performance. I just bought a B&K Pro-10 pre recently, which, along with my st-202 and Pioneer DV-59avi, will be the backbone of my future 2-channel rig.

can't wait to get it up and running. Still deciding if I have room and budget for towers (preferred) or just get some LSi9s and work my way up from there.

PS - I have to work on monday so stop rubbing your four-day weekend in my face, tonyb

Early B.

I have an "intergrated" system that works great. For HT, the fronts are powered by a tube amp. For music, same fronts, tube CD player, no receiver, no center channel, no DVD player, no sub. Best of both worlds.

mantis

Having a good system is having a good system. You can build a HT system to be a Music system.Depending on the level of gear, matching everything to work together will yield excellent results for both.
Subwoofers need to be music in order to build such a system. The speaker package has to be designed with music in mind. Then you need the correct gear to drive everthing with enough power.
Good high quality power coming in is nessary.So is good quality cables in the entire system.

My system performs both Home theater and music duties well. I have no desire to own 2 different systems when mine can do both. I use my sub for music and It's incredible.

I use
Rotel RSP 1068 preamp
Rotel RMB 1095 5 channel amp
Dynaudio Audience 82 mains
Dynaudio Audience 122c center
Dynaudio Audience 42w rears
Dynaudio Sub500 subwoofer
Pioneer Elite Dv47a for both cd and DVD as well as SACD/DVD AUDIO
Xbox soon to 360
Comcast DVR HDMI HDTV
My system is completely wired with Audioquest and protected my Panamax M5500ex. I use a deadicated 20 amp circuit with a PS audio outlet.

My weakest link I feel is my Rotel gear. I'm considering upgrading to Krell Showcase.Then getting my DVD player out and getting something better.

Dan