Flag burning...

MacLeod

LOL!!! Good ole John! Always comes thru in a pinch.

mrbigbluelight

in the Hurtgen Forest, WWII. Combat medic, bronze star, purple heart.

My uncle had a carrier shot out from underneath him (Wasp, Hornet ? I can never remember).

During the late 60's, their blood would absolutely boil as Walter Cronkite brought to our TV's pictures of flag burning war protesters.

I mentioned to him one time that he shouldn't reallly get mad at the flag burners. Believe me, there was a risk involved in offering that opinion.

If looks could kill, I'd be dead right now. I said to him that that was why "Pops" died. "Pops" was a soldier from Alaska (29, hence "Pops") in his unit that got blown up in a minefield on Christmas Eve. He finally died on Christmas day.
"Pops" didn't die so that people who knew what they were talking about could say what they wanted to say, he died so that morons would have the right to say what they want.

That is what America is about. That is why America is not just good, but GREAT.

steveinaz

PolkThug wrote:

We should never be allowed to protest our government or destroy any of its symbols!!! We should be the Western United Kingdom!!!

Nice spin, unfortunately the poll wasn't about protesting, it was about burning the American flag in protest. I have no problem with protesting, busting out the government (hell I'm a conservative, and I think Bush is a moron), or most any other legal way to get your voice heard. I'm just saying leave the flag alone, too many have died in its shadow.

I suppose the 40% (now) that find flag burning acceptable probably find the funeral busters well within their rights too? Hey, that's free speech right? We're not gonna let "the man" shut that down are we? I'll tell you what, let one of my nephews die in Iraq and have these blood suckers come to the funeral with their "die soldier, die" signs. Myself and a few family members will be sharing a cell.

ND13

People forget, that when there's an election, you vote for the best candidate from the choices available at that time. I'm conservative politically and liberal socially, which I believe should be dictated on the local level, not federal. What's good for me in Indiana, may not be good for the people in Texas or California. That's the way it's supposed to and should be.

I actually consider myself a Libertarian, but I know there will likely never be Liberarians elected to any of the lofty positions during my lifetime, so I vote for the best AVAILABLE candidate at the time. The two-party system is tearing this great nation apart at the seams, imo. There used to be several parties that had a chance, now just the two.

PolkThug

steveinaz wrote:

I suppose the 40% (now) that find flag burning acceptable probably find the funeral busters well within their rights too?

You're spot on, I burn flags at funerals while smoking on my motorcycle with no helmet on.

The Phelps' can't "pass away" fast enough.

Skynut

ND13 wrote:

The two-party system is tearing this great nation apart at the seams, imo. There used to be several parties that had a chance, now just the two.

The two party system is broke.
We now have two huge political parties and their only real concern is maintaining power.
They do not care to accomplish any more than necessary to keep their people in office.
Not much else is really getting done.
They only do what the bigest, loudest voices in America want done if it will help their cause.

Ok maybe that is a little extreme but lets face it neither party wants to give up power and I would bet that our two parties would come together and work as a team to keep a third party from having a chance.

Demiurge

We will always be a 2 party system. Whether or not it will always be the republicans and democrats is up in the air, but those two terms are mutually exclusive these days.

PolkThug

My favorite holiday is the 4th of July. At my party we had a cake with the American Flag on it (purchased from the grocery store) and the napkins had the flag on them. Am I being patriotic, or should I have my **** kicked for cutting the flag cake and wiping my mouth with my flag napkins?

Afterwords, the flag tablecloth was pretty messy so I threw it away.

steveinaz

Criminal:
"Well officer, technically I didn't shoot the guy, my gun did. I just simply held the gun...."

Cakes and flags, I'm not seeing a connection...

PolkThug

steveinaz wrote:

Criminal:
"Well officer, technically I didn't shoot the guy, my gun did. I just simply held the gun...."

You know you want to start a gun control poll next.

steveinaz

Nah. There are those who protect, and those who want to be protected. I'll never change their minds either way. It's like the cable debate, I don't care if they don't want a gun...me, I'll take care of my own situation.

Funny how it parallels the helmet issue huh? "You could be in an accident, therefore you're stupid for not wearing a helmet."

Well...chances are VERY good that some sort of violent crime will happen to you, you'd be stupid to not have a gun.

Far more people die from violent encounters than do from not wearing a helmet on a bike. So go figure...

I love it.

cfrizz

Steve, while I in no way approve of burning the flag, your comparison is a little off. While it is offensive to burn a flag, a flag doesn't have any feelings to hurt, it is not a living being, or a deceased one who has died for his/her country.

Outlawing this disrespectful behavior at a cemetary falls along the same lines as prohibiting protesters from walking up to a woman to scream at her as she is walking into Planned Parenthood.

Both are more or less private matters & the protesters simply need to mind their own damn business.

steveinaz wrote:

I suppose the 40% (now) that find flag burning acceptable probably find the funeral busters well within their rights too? Hey, that's free speech right? We're not gonna let "the man" shut that down are we? I'll tell you what, let one of my nephews die in Iraq and have these blood suckers come to the funeral with their "die soldier, die" signs. Myself and a few family members will be sharing a cell.

steveinaz

Yep, you're right Cathy. My point is burning a flag is an "act" not free speech. It's an act that offends me as I spent the better part of my life defending what it stands for.

steveinaz

I ask, don't desecrate the flag--it's a slap in the face to every mother, father, sister, brother that's ever lost someone in a war. You want to make a political statement? Burn a poster of an elephant or a donkey, or whatever the hell floats your boat. Those who want to burn flags, move to Jordan, Seria, or Iran, hell you'll be a hero.

PhantomOG

people burn flags to get attention and incite anger. maybe fewer will do it if its illegal but the ability of ignorant people to find creative new ways to offend and incite people never ceases to amaze me. after the flag, they'll find something else to do to piss people off.

steveinaz

Yeah, they'll probably urinate on the Vietnam Memorial Wall next. Mindless ****.

Skynut

I have heard of people who get in trouble for using foul language in public.
One guy was on the news because he was in jail for using foul language; he was arrested for swearing and would not stop at the judges request and he was arrested.

These are just words. Words you hear that offend.

Burning the flag is symbolic of a persons hatred for the country who's flag is on fire.

What's my point?
I think burning OUR flag is way more offensive than swearing in public.
If someone can be arrested for swearing which is "speech" (and we are gaurenteed free speech) then burning the flag should be considered more than just a "free speech message" it should be considered a denouncement of citizenship.

So how about if we don't actually make it illegal but instead let everyone know that if they burn the flag they are denouncing their citizenship and will be escorted to the nearest border and left without any opportunity back in.

tommyboy

Skynut wrote:

The two party system is broke.
We now have two huge political parties and their only real concern is maintaining power.
They do not care to accomplish any more than necessary to keep their people in office.
Not much else is really getting done.
They only do what the bigest, loudest voices in America want done if it will help their cause.

Ok maybe that is a little extreme but lets face it neither party wants to give up power and I would bet that our two parties would come together and work as a team to keep a third party from having a chance.

Just look when Congress is trying to vote on something. when you look to see the votes, its the democrats agree with one thing, and republics disagree (or vice versa). It shouldn't be what you party believes in, but what you believe in personally. I think the same should go with liberals and conservatives. You shouldn't think your government always make the wrong choices, but at the same time not agree with everything they are doing.

I don't consider myself democrat or republican, Liberal or conservative. I just say what I believe in.

tommyboy

unc2701

US code:

TITLE 4 > CHAPTER 1 > § 8

§ 8. Respect for flag

(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.


hehe.

Skynut

^^^ thats funny ^^^

Demiurge

"The First Amendment exists to ensure that freedom of speech and expression applies not just to that with which we agree or disagree, but also that which we find outrageous. I would not amend that great shield of democracy to hammer a few miscreants. The flag will still be flying proudly long after they have slunk away." — Colin Powell, May 1999

I agree with those comments 100%. The flag is a symbol of freedom. You're an idiot if you burn the flag, but you should be free to do it if you want to be a **** bag. That's as far as we need to go.

steveinaz

Good point. It's just a shame that this issue exist, at all.

Demiurge

I agree with you that it's sad. Thing is this, we can nail these people on burning in public, etc. There's all sorts of municipal and state laws that we can use on these people without having to ammend the Constitution. I just wanted to put that out there as an alternative, because I think this does open the doors to other things.

MattN03

IMO, if you don't like it here, feel free to go somewhere else! I sure won't miss ya...

Demiurge

If we don't like what? I haven't seen anyone say they like flag burning or even condone it. I have seen people such as myself saying that we shouldn't ammend the Constitution to say it's illegal. Freedom of speech is all encompasing whether we like the speech or not. The bottom line is that this act doesn't harm you, so likening it to yelling fire in a crowded theater is a stretch. I realize the people calling for this ammendment are those of my own ideology, but I don't agree with it, and most seem not to from what I have heard.

Ammending the Constitution is supposed to be a big deal, not just something to do because it feels good. That's why there have been so few.

Shizelbs

Anyone notice yesterday's vote?

Demiurge

Yep, it's why I posted today.

Shizelbs

I do find it concerning just how close the vote was.

ohskigod

Shizelbs wrote:

Anyone notice yesterday's vote?

what did I miss?

machineman

Shame, shame, shame...Just shows the state our great nation is in. I just don't get what burning our flag and free speech have to do with each other.