The "Golden Age" of USA

13

Comments

  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2006
    I absolutely agree Cathy! I do not belive the Founders invisioned career politicians. Term limits would solve a lot of the problems we have with politicians.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2006
    ND13 wrote:
    You can have a TRADE surplus and still be in debt.

    Trade surplusses/deficits are meaningless.

    I mean, I have a HUGE trade deficit with Tweeter! Ive spent a ton of money with them and they have yet to buy anything from me.
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2006
    MacLeod wrote:
    Trade surplusses/deficits are meaningless.

    I mean, I have a HUGE trade deficit with Tweeter! Ive spent a ton of money with them and they have yet to buy anything from me.

    I know, I was responding to the "China has a $90 billion trade surplus" remark. Like not having a trade deficit means your nation is not in debt.:rolleyes:
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  • Drumingman
    Drumingman Posts: 348
    edited June 2006
    amulford wrote:
    Hey... BLOW ME!!!

    Not to put the country's history down, just stating a simple fact. IMHO, the 40's & the 60's were THE Golden Years.

    In the 40's we basically saved the f#cking world. If not for the USA, her military and production capabilities, we would be speaking German on the east coast and Japanese on the west. The Russkies would have been the opposite. The true might of AMERICA was gloriously proven during that period.

    During the 60's, well let's look. Civil rights. Huge technological advancement (we put a man on the friggin moon, for cryin out loud). Honest, if yet embarrassing, demonstration of our right of Freedom of Speech. And let us not forget the sexual revolution. Oh no...;)

    So, you see, I'm not embarrassed. F#ck it. It's best to learn from our mistakes. And we have. Soil conservation, enviromental oversight and laws, labor laws. ****, we still making them, learning from them, and improving because of it. That's what makes this country so friggin great.

    So if you think I'm mad because you called me a commie, I'm really not. But I do have the balls to call it like I see it...



    Thank you for showing me the errors of my ways! I didn't think you were so freaking smart. So quit being an **** CLOWN, Your Talk about the way of this country Sucks. Bite Me. I Don't need a history lesson from you. I think I know as much about My Country as anyone here.

    Have a nice day
  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited June 2006
    Struck a nerve have we???

    What we obviously have here is one of them there highly edjimicated like purdy **** smellers...
  • exalted512
    exalted512 Posts: 10,735
    edited June 2006
    Demiurge wrote:
    We're the first true nation to have embraced freedom -- so your document of history is a flawed flaming bag of ****.
    best quote of this thread
    -Cody
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  • 1996blackmax
    1996blackmax Posts: 2,436
    edited June 2006
    We can thank the ancient Greeks ......
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  • bobman1235
    bobman1235 Posts: 10,822
    edited June 2006
    MacLeod wrote:
    A little off there Bob. Debt is right but the GDP is a little higher at 13.2 something if I remember right. The debt is high but our GDP is outpacing the debt and the debt is smaller than the GDP by a good margin. Id be willing to bet most people on here have debt higher than their yearly income.

    Well, that GNP was the official number as of 2001, so 5 years ago... the debt number was accurate. But regardless, I don't understand the argument that the national debt is not a big deal. I completely agree even with what you said below, but that doesn't mean we can ignore all of our problems with some kind of smug knowledge that we'll always be great. Our government is a form of government which CAN survive indefinitely, I believe, which makes it great, but that's a completely COMPLETELy separate issue from us **** up the economy so bad that we have another Great Depression on our hands. Sure, we'll bounce back, but I don't think you want your kids waiting in line for bread while we do so.

    Besides, the best way to cut the debt is to cut all those socialist programs and shrink the government down, so it's good in that way too :)

    MacLeod wrote:
    Wrong. Every nation has some setbacks but not a downfall. Yeah, Rome colapsed, the USSR collapsed as did Greece but England is still on top, so is France (thanks to us). Japan got flattened in WWII but is back on top as well.

    The reason is that we're not an empire or a dictatorship. We have a capitalistic system that makes life better for all as opposed to Rome and Greece which had a lush upper class and then slaves! Even our poorest live much better than those in REAL poverty. Dont think so? Most people in the projects have color TV's, a car, microwaves, air conditioning. Yeah theyre not living in a penthouse but its a far cry better than somebody in Africa living in a mud hut having to chase down his food every night!

    I dont doubt we could encounter some hard times in the future but I believe 100% that this country was created by the smartes men to ever live and it will continue to rise for as long as those principles are adhered to. Now you get a bunch of socialists in power or big government people and you could be right.
    If you will it, dude, it is no dream.
  • POLKOHOLIC
    POLKOHOLIC Posts: 407
    edited June 2006
    MacLeod wrote:
    A little off there Bob. Debt is right but the GDP is a little higher at 13.2 something if I remember right. The debt is high but our GDP is outpacing the debt and the debt is smaller than the GDP by a good margin. Id be willing to bet most people on here have debt higher than their yearly income.

    But they wont maintain that growth rate. Theyre just getting their economy started so its taking off right now. It will eventually slow down. I dont disagree they may be a super power some day but we'll still be a bigger super power.

    Wrong. Every nation has some setbacks but not a downfall. Yeah, Rome colapsed, the USSR collapsed as did Greece but England is still on top, so is France (thanks to us). Japan got flattened in WWII but is back on top as well.

    The reason is that we're not an empire or a dictatorship. We have a capitalistic system that makes life better for all as opposed to Rome and Greece which had a lush upper class and then slaves! Even our poorest live much better than those in REAL poverty. Dont think so? Most people in the projects have color TV's, a car, microwaves, air conditioning. Yeah theyre not living in a penthouse but its a far cry better than somebody in Africa living in a mud hut having to chase down his food every night!

    I dont doubt we could encounter some hard times in the future but I believe 100% that this country was created by the smartes men to ever live and it will continue to rise for as long as those principles are adhered to. Now you get a bunch of socialists in power or big government people and you could be right.

    1. macleod, if you think the national debt is not an issue, look at the second graph - 'US Debt vs GDP' - trust me, it is an issue.

    http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

    2. and what if they do maintain that growth rate and do become a bigger superpower than us? time to collect payments, no?

    3.England has been pushed off the European continent and could be invaded by angry chinamen within a few weeks - same with france. Japan doesn't have a significant armed forces after WWII.

    4. Agreed

    5. Agreed
  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited June 2006
    bobman1235 wrote:
    Besides, the best way to cut the debt is to cut all those socialist programs and shrink the government down, so it's good in that way too :)

    Well, the only socialist programs that actually cost anything worth mentioning in the US budget are medicare and medicaid- and recently that's totally due to the prescription drug cards that everybody hates (ok, I kinda like 'em, but that's cause I'm in the pharma industry... they do well, i do well).

    Really the place we need to cut is the military, we're still focused on cold war mentality and not on the kind of urban warfare/ occupation/ police work that is typical of recent conflicts. We need a smart restructuring of the military to adress the conflict that we're going to see and the big thing is we MUST break our oil dependence. Why?

    1)It forces us to get involved in the middle east. when we get involved in the middle east, they get pissed off and want to kill us.

    2)Back to the topic at hand... I think something like 50% of our budget deficit comes solely from petro.

    Cut out oil, we have more money and we don't need as much military, 'cause we can aviod that tar baby between africa and india.
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  • Skynut
    Skynut Posts: 2,967
    edited June 2006
    Our military always needs to be strong. We can focus on urban occupation but we need to keep the military as strong as possible.
    I never trust the rest of the world enough to feel we can downsize the military.
    It was just over 60 years ago we were attacked. Many of the people alive today remember that day.

    We still have real threats of war on our soil.
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2006
    I agree that the debt is something that needs to be addressed but I just think its not nearly as important as a lot of other issues we have.

    And that graph you showed me is worthless. It lost all credibility with me when I read "1st Oil War" and "2nd Oil War".

    It is still highly unlikely they will continue to grow at 9% but even if they do theyre still 25 years behind us technologically and as long as theyre a communist dictatorship, they will continue to be. Their economy is not growing because theyre a capitalist system based on free enterprise like us, their economy is growing because we're paying them to assemble things for us. Our economy is generated by our citizens and the entrepreneurial spirit of our citizens. Their economy is not because their citizens have no freedom and their government keeps their entrepreneurial spirit squashed under their boots therefore it is incapable of sustaining or growing by itself.
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  • Drumingman
    Drumingman Posts: 348
    edited June 2006
    amulford wrote:
    Struck a nerve have we???

    What we obviously have here is one of them there highly edjimicated like purdy **** smellers...


    Thats rite fello, Take a big wiff.
    When you don't have a good defense or a logical reply, like you, the best way to try to defend your position is by personal attacks and name calling. You're very grown up.l
  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2006
    COWBELL!!!
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
  • Drumingman
    Drumingman Posts: 348
    edited June 2006
    POLKOHOLIC wrote:
    1. macleod, if you think the national debt is not an issue, look at the second graph - 'US Debt vs GDP' - trust me, it is an issue.

    http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm

    2. and what if they do maintain that growth rate and do become a bigger superpower than us? time to collect payments, no?

    3.England has been pushed off the European continent and could be invaded by angry chinamen within a few weeks - same with france. Japan doesn't have a significant armed forces after WWII.

    4. Agreed

    5. Agreed


    I have to agree, the tone of bashing was very predominate and So was the "war for oil" Garbage. They must have forgot that one country, Iraq invaded and took over another country, Kuwait. Sure we like the oil and want to keep the supply rolling in.

    As far China owning more of our debt than anyone else on earth, If they want to collect right now, it will absolutely Destroy the economy of the US. That is a fact.

    If it really was a war for oil, then we better have some others because the last 2 didn't work out real well, just look at prices on the pumps.
  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2006
    Drumingman wrote:
    As far China owning more of our debt than anyone else on earth, If they want to collect right now, it will absolutely Destroy the economy of the US. That is a fact.

    And their's along with it, along with a few others.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited June 2006
    Drumingman wrote:
    Thats rite fello, Take a big wiff.
    When you don't have a good defense or a logical reply, like you, the best way to try to defend your position is by personal attacks and name calling. You're very grown up.l

    Drummingman you're right there with him.

    "Commie" "Bite me" "****-clown"

    Pot Kettle Black if you ask me.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited June 2006
    unc2701 wrote:
    Really the place we need to cut is the military,...

    sorry but I respectfully disagree.
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2006
    It's been cut enough.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
  • Drumingman
    Drumingman Posts: 348
    edited June 2006
    amulford wrote:
    I wouldn't exactly call that the golden age. aggressive industrialization with no regard to the enviroment or the wanton exploitation of the workers by that industry. The rape of the plains by the farmer. Rampant speculation leading to economic collapse.



    Mr. aaharvel, You are absolutely correct. I guess it was the "agressive industrialization" that got me, Oh sorry. Or it might have been "the wanton exploitation of the workers" , Oh sorry. "The rape of the plains by the farmer" Oh sorry.

    I do apologize to you Mr amulford. Every time I read something now right out of the Peoples Press, I'll remember you.

    I take back all I said but it's out there, Oh sorry.:eek:
  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited June 2006
    that's fine. do whatcha like man
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited June 2006
    Drumingman wrote:
    I do apologize to you Mr amulford.

    No need. Your are entitled to your opinion. Be it informed, educated, or personal. As am I.

    However, if you look back and read of the things I was referring to, you will see that all I said is true.

    Perhaps if you researched and read, you wouldn't be throwing childish remarks around.

    Have you ever heard of the Dust bowl? Do a google on it. I found this:
    Poor agricultural practices and years of sustained drought caused the Dust Bowl. Plains grasslands had been deeply plowed and planted to wheat. During the years when there was adequate rainfall, the land produced bountiful crops. But as the droughts of the early 1930s deepened, the farmers kept plowing and planting and nothing would grow. The ground cover that held the soil in place was gone. The Plains winds whipped across the fields raising billowing clouds of dust to the skys. The skys could darken for days, and even the most well sealed homes could have a thick layer of dust on furniture. In some places the dust would drift like snow, covering farmsteads.


    I'd call that raping the land.
    Every time I read something now right out of the Peoples Press, I'll remember you.

    That's good, as long as I've made an impression.

    I thought if I responded more on your level, we could sort of bond. I guess not...:p
  • unc2701
    unc2701 Posts: 3,587
    edited June 2006
    ND13 wrote:
    It's been cut enough.

    Sorry, I got a little out of order there. I think we need to:
    1)Dump a LOT of money into alternative energy
    2)Minimize involvement in the Middle east (israel can fend for itself, those guys are some bad ****'s)
    3)Access the actual threats to our nation and fund military projects accordingly.

    I didn't mean say we need a smaller army, just one that's more efficient because it's not fighting the Cold war.

    Oh and when someone says that something is going to cost $700 million, don't fire them and tell congress that it will cost $300 million. That'll help rein things in a little bit.
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  • Drumingman
    Drumingman Posts: 348
    edited June 2006
    amulford wrote:
    No need. Your are entitled to your opinion. Be it informed, educated, or personal. As am I.

    However, if you look back and read of the things I was referring to, you will see that all I said is true.

    Perhaps if you researched and read, you wouldn't be throwing childish remarks around.

    Have you ever heard of the Dust bowl? Do a google on it. I found this:




    I'd call that raping the land.



    That's good, as long as I've made an impression.

    I thought if I responded more on your level, we could sort of bond. I guess not...:p

    Screw you! I don't have to Google to know My History or the History According to Google. I learned mine from History in School. Maybe you're in need of learning about history from the net. Yes you have made an impression,I think a very bad one. And what I said about you being a commie and an **** Clown, I think that is true too, and I don't give a **** what anyone else thinks.

    I'm really glad I am not a friend of yours cause that would put me in Bad Company. You better go and google some more.
  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited June 2006
    Oh, believe me, Antnee is FAR from a Commie.
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2006
    That right! He'd drink any Ruski commie under the table any day!!! :D
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  • cmy330go
    cmy330go Posts: 2,341
    edited June 2006
    ND13 wrote:
    COWBELL!!!

    I Agree!:D

    cowbell0dp.gif
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited June 2006
    OK, I give. What with the cowbells?
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  • cmy330go
    cmy330go Posts: 2,341
    edited June 2006
    MacLeod wrote:
    OK, I give. What with the cowbells?

    Details
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/More_Cowbell

    Video Link
    http://www.davidmeyer.org/cowbell.mpeg
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited June 2006
    Drumingman wrote:
    Screw you! I don't have to Google to know My History or the History According to Google. I learned mine from History in School. Maybe you're in need of learning about history from the net. Yes you have made an impression,I think a very bad one. And what I said about you being a commie and an **** Clown, I think that is true too, and I don't give a **** what anyone else thinks.

    what ever happened to this guy I wonder? :rolleyes: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37851

    by the way that ridiculous "history according to google" bit... rarely have I seen a more pathetic attempt at straw grabbing.

    Bite me.
    ****-Clown.
    Take a big wiff.
    Screw you.
    I don't give a **** what anyone else thinks.

    Your name-calling and personal attacks as of late entertain me, so keep them coming if it suits you. Or you could simply go back to the old drummingman - or better yet just leave and not come back. Either one would certainly be a nice consolation prize.

    Commie.
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