The Da Vinci Code

Drumingman · May 2006

I haven't seen this fine cinamatic offering from the great Ron Howard but I did see on a magazine stand that you can lose weight with "The Da Vinci Code Diet". Isn't life grand?

Demiurge · May 2006

Da Vinci Blowed.

Sami · May 2006

That movie was ok, pretty good actually but not great. To those who get too worked about the story, there are two things to remember:

1) It's a man made story that might, or might not, contain actual events
2) So is the bible

MrNightly · May 2006

Sami wrote:

That movie was ok, pretty good actually but not great. To those who get too worked about the story, there are two things to remember:

1) It's a man made story that might, or might not, contain actual events
2) So is the bible

Man, I feel like a broken record around this joint

Not wanting to get another thread sidetracked, but man Sami, why does it always have to come back to your personal feelings about the bible?

Let's keep this thread to the movie and forget the religion slams, what do ya say?

aaharvel · May 2006

Sami · May 2006

MrNightly wrote:

Not wanting to get another thread sidetracked, but man Sami, why does it always have to come back to your personal feelings about the bible?

I'm not slamming religion and it's not a personal feeling about the bible. God didn't write the bible, did (s)he? Men did, and that's a fact, not a personal feeling. Someone wrote a story which is part fiction and some part might be truth as well. That sentence applies to both DVC and bible. Which parts are true is up to you and your personal feelings. Wasn't that the theme in this movie?

bobman1235 · May 2006

Sami wrote:

I'm not slamming religion and it's not a personal feeling about the bible. God didn't write the bible, did (s)he? Men did, and that's a fact, not a personal feeling. Someone wrote a story which is part fiction and some part might be truth as well. That sentence applies to both DVC and bible. Which parts are true is up to you and your personal feelings. Wasn't that the theme in this movie?

The difference is the Bible is meant to be taken as "true" by its disciples, and was meant to be read as, like, a way to run your life, whereas Dan Brown wrote a fiction book that was meant to be read for entertainment. Whether you feel the Bible is fiction or not, you really can't realistically compare the two.

Demiurge · May 2006

Sami wrote:

I'm not slamming religion and it's not a personal feeling about the bible. God didn't write the bible, did (s)he? Men did, and that's a fact, not a personal feeling. Someone wrote a story which is part fiction and some part might be truth as well. That sentence applies to both DVC and bible. Which parts are true is up to you and your personal feelings. Wasn't that the theme in this movie?

By that standard everything is fiction. :rolleyes:

Sami · May 2006

Demiurge wrote:

By that standard everything is fiction. :rolleyes:

Walk the Line is part fiction and part true, and somewhere in between. Since events of his life are documented by several sources, I would consider those facts and not fiction. But you do have a point.

bobman, yes the bible is meant to be taken as true by the believers. That's why they are called believers because it is a matter of belief. If you remember what Hanks tells her at the end, that sums it up pretty good. All things considered I think a movie doesn't really get deep enough in these kinds of stories and to me the movie seemed quite short. While I wish it could have gone a little deeper I do realise a movie has limitations over a book, that is why movies do not do justice to these kinds of stories. Maybe it's just me but if the movie is good I don't care if it is 3 or 4 hours long, I might still think it ended too soon only scratching the surface...

Bible is still a man made book, man made stories, that's why it does compare to a movie based on history. Both are speculating on what might have happened thousands of years ago. I think that's what the uproar is about, how does someone dare to question the bible and the stories in it. But this country was built on exactly that thing, freedom from religious beliefs, you decide on what you believe in.

bobman1235 · May 2006

Sami wrote:

Bible is still a man made book, man made stories, that's why it does compare to a movie based on history. Both are speculating on what might have happened thousands of years ago.

My point is just about INTENT, which you're not grasping. The writers of the Bible wrote it AS truth. Even if they're just "man-made stories", they're supposed to be recounting of things that ACTUALLY HAPPENED. The Da Vinci code is a COMPLETELY fictional account. It has some historical facts IN IT, but the entire story is made up by one man, and not meant to BELIEVED, just to ENTERTAIN. The writers of the Bible weren't trying to write a bestseller, they were trying to tell an account of what they saw. Dan Brown wasn't trying to tell what he believes, he was trying to sell books.

I'm not trying ot defend religion or anything here, I'm hardly religious, but saying that the Bible is just another book comparable to a fictional novel doesn't even make sense. It may be fiction to you or anyone who doesn't believe it, but it wasn't WRITTEN or INTENDED that way.

Sami wrote:

I think that's what the uproar is about, how does someone dare to question the bible and the stories in it. But this country was built on exactly that thing, freedom from religious beliefs, you decide on what you believe in.

I think the uproar is about people thinking the book / movie is slandering their faith. I haven't heard ANYONE say they don't have the RIGHT to make the movie (and if they did they were being morons), they were just trying to make everyone know that it wasn't true. Which is unnecessary, because anyone with half a brain knows what fiction is, and that the book and movie AREN'T supposed to be true.

Sami · May 2006

bobman1235 wrote:

My point is just about INTENT, which you're not grasping. The writers of the Bible wrote it AS truth.

We don't know that for a fact. They might have as well written it for similar purpose than Brown did; money, power, entertainment. Bible, OT+NT, is a collection of stories from different eras, compiled into two books. Written by several authors and motives of those authors are unclear.

Iliad and Odossey were old folklores, same with Kalevala. Both are very similar to bible in content. All are based on historical events, that may or may not have happened. All include god(s). All have added fiction to make the story more appealing (sounds like Hollywood, doesn't it

), or to cover holes in the story.

Bottom line is, what matters is what you believe in. If you want to believe in Greek mythology who is to say your faith in it is any different from those believing in <insert religion of your choice here>? And BTW, I do believe the discussion is on topic since this was the main theme in the movie.

bobman1235 wrote:

I think the uproar is about people thinking the book / movie is slandering their faith.

I don't think it did slander faith. If anything it did question blind, fanatical faith. If you are critical about the beliefs of those making the religious rules, are you against god? If you are critical about rules created by men many, many centuries ago, are you against god? I don't think so but some do.

Demiurge · May 2006

So I guess we can make a movie smearing your mother in the worst way possible by depicting her in a false light and you won't have a problem with it, right? If you have any heart I am sure you would be pissed off, and rightfully so.

There's plenty of reason for people to be rather upset about this movie. It's smearing The Father of all of man, kind of a bit more significant than just your physical mother and father, right?

I respect the belief of Christians, and they aren't harming anyone. They have a right to be upset here, and they should be vocal about it. You don't believe it slanders their faith? Are you crazy? I don't know if I should ask that question because it seems like you don't believe in anything.

If you want to believe that the Bible is just a bunch of wild tales and adventures, fine, but it might be a little more tactful to keep it to yourself.

bobman1235 · May 2006

Sami wrote:

We don't know that for a fact. They might have as well written it for similar purpose than Brown did; money, power, entertainment. Bible, OT+NT, is a collection of stories from different eras, compiled into two books. Written by several authors and motives of those authors are unclear.

Well, I think we're going ot have to agree to disagree on this one. I don't think you can logically look at history and say that the writers of the Bible, right or wrong, did not believe what they were writing. But I'll let it go

Sami wrote:

I don't think it did slander faith. If anything it did question blind, fanatical faith. If you are critical about the beliefs of those making the religious rules, are you against god? If you are critical about rules created by men many, many centuries ago, are you against god? I don't think so but some do.

I actually mostly agree with you on this - I'm mostly just playing Devil's advocate in this debate because I think it's very interesting the way people see these things. The only things that could be deemed "slanderous" are the way "Opus Dei" is portrayed (because it is a real group, although probably much different than in the book) and maybe some of the "conspiracies" the Catholic Church is accused of, including, in the book and movie, MURDER.

PolkThug · May 2006

Demiurge wrote:

They have a right to be upset here, and they should be vocal about it.

Demiurge wrote:

If you want to believe that the Bible is just a bunch of wild tales and adventures, fine, but it might be a little more tactful to keep it to yourself.

YES!! Silence the non-believers!!!

Anyway, to get back on topic. Did anybody see the preview? Specifically the writing on the Mona Lisa case, vs the position of the writing on the case in the movie.

bobman1235 · May 2006

That's why I hate previews. They either give away too much, or completely misrepresent the movie. I understand that to a point they're a necessary evil, but it still annoys me when they show a climactic scene in a trailer that ruins some twist in a movie.

Demiurge · May 2006

PolkThug wrote:

YES!! Silence the non-believers!!!

If you're not a Christian the movie most likely wouldn't offend you. I don't go to church, therefore I am not Christian. In the same breath I can understand the outrage, and it bothers me. You better sure as heck be right if you're going to make a movie defaming the image of God. I do know a little better than to run my mouth about someone's faith when it's not hurting me or anyone else. I think most people are smart enough to understand that. Them believing has no bearing on you whatsoever, so I am curious why the non-believers care to chalk it up as no big deal and tell Christian's they should be offended.

Openly criticizing the church is worlds apart from openly criticizing the Bible and saying it's just a bunch of made up stories.

You better be sure you're right about that. Not to mention, if you don't believe in anything greater than yourself, be it the Christian God or another, aren't you completely lost? What is the value of law and loving your fellow man if none of that truly exists?

I realize you were just joking, but I think it required a serious response none the less. It's just something to think about if you don't believe in the idea of a God, or can't understand why a large group of people might be rightfully upset and trying to encourage others not to see it. Maybe it's counterproductive, who knows.

Sami · May 2006

Demi, can you tell me how the movie is depicting God in false light? The way I saw it is that it presents several angles and options on how things could have happened but does not take a stand one way or another. In the end, who was the bad guy? Actually there were bad guys on both sides, just like in real life.

PolkThug · May 2006

Demi, although I would love to talk more about xyz beliefs and mythologies, this thread is already borderline.

I do however find great comfort that the answer to life, the universe and everything is so utterly fantastic that 100+ religions on this planet can't figure it out.

Can't wait til Dan Brown's The Soloman Key comes out. I wonder if the Freemasons will go as nuts as the Vatican did over The Da Vinci Code?

Demiurge · May 2006

Sami wrote:

Demi, can you tell me how the movie is depicting God in false light? The way I saw it is that it presents several angles and options on how things could have happened but does not take a stand one way or another. In the end, who was the bad guy? Actually there were bad guys on both sides, just like in real life.

The Bible is the infallible word of God. His word supercedes all other, that way 'angles' don't play and people are going to take offense. That said, the Bible is open to interpretation and doesn't hold your hand. Saying that Jesus (The Physical incarnation of God) Married Mary Magdalene isn't exactly an interpretation, but an outright lie to the Christian community. Big deal? That depends, but you're not Christian. There are other things as well.

I see that the Christian community is upset that people who know nothing of the Bible are taking this movie as if it is true. That's the problem of the ignorant, no doubt, but there's nothing wrong with Christians making it known that it is not His truth.

In the end the non-believers are the only ones who have anything to worry about. If Christians are wrong they lose nothing and end up as the rest.

I don't know why anyone would be offended by the notion of going to Hell, because if you're right there is no Hell. I definitely am a believer, but what I have a problem with is the structure of the church and many of the people who go, but not with the word of God, and it's definitely in my heart. That, however, is a topic for a different board.

So in the end, yes, most Christians understand the movie isn't real, but unfortunately a lot of non-Christian movie goers are using the fiction as if it was a reality.

Sami · May 2006

Demiurge wrote:

That depends, but you're not Christian.

Actually I am. Lutheran.

Demiurge wrote:

In the end the non-believers are the only ones who have anything to worry about. If Christians are wrong they lose nothing and end up as the rest.

There are other religions as well so saying Christians have nothing to lose is false. What if believing in **** religion is the only way to heaven instead of believing in the Christian god?

Demiurge wrote:

I definitely am a believer, but what I have a problem with is the structure of the church and many of the people who go, but not with the word of God

Exactly same here. But the problem is what is the word of God? Bible is words written by men, we both know that. If it was written by God I doubt there would be any question about it.

PolkThug · May 2006

Demiurge wrote:

In the end the non-believers are the only ones who have anything to worry about. If Christians are wrong they lose nothing and end up as the rest.

What if Allah slaughters them, Shiva destroys them or Budha sits on them?

Stop preachin'.

PolkThug · May 2006

Did anybody here ever here of Opus Dei before Dan Brown brought it up? I'd never heard of them before.

Demiurge · May 2006

Sami wrote:

Actually I am. Lutheran.

No, you most definitely are not. Especially with your arguments in this thread and your other views on religion elsewhere on this board. You need to actually practice your faith and believe it to be a part of it.

Sami wrote:

There are other religions as well so saying Christians have nothing to lose is false. What if believing in **** religion is the only way to heaven instead of believing in the Christian god?

"Those who die in God's grace and friendship and are perfectly purified live forever. This perfect life with God is called heaven. It is the ultimate end and fulfilment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness."

Believe it or don't. Faith in something or faith in nothing.

Sami wrote:

Exactly same here. But the problem is what is the word of God? Bible is words written by men, we both know that. If it was written by God I doubt there would be any question about it.

The Bible is written by Man as an extension of God. I mean, good grief....are we going to split hairs with this now? If I was contracted to write an autobiography for Elvis Presley and I write down his story as told by him it's still an autobiography. The only way it's falsified is if he lied to me or I decided to take liberty with changing his story around. Are you insinuating that? Then you call yourself Lutheran? If you believe that, fine, but lets not try and pretend that you're a Lutheran and that Christians as a whole shouldn't take offense to such a notion.

Again, what is your point for posting in this thread? If the movie doesn't bother you why do you care what someone else thinks about it? That's really the bottom line here, and if you can't answer than I am completely done arguing with you.

Seems some think they can just make dumb comments about faith and expect to not get a response....use the slang word for '****' around here and everyone is up and arms. Both are wrong, but it's interesting what is sacred and what isn't....

Drumingman · May 2006

Demiurge wrote:

If you're not a Christian the movie most likely wouldn't offend you. I don't go to church, therefore I am not Christian.

I didn't know the criteria for being a christian was walking through the door.:eek:

Drumingman · May 2006

I wonder why anyone has not made a movie from the Salman Rushdie book, The Satanic Verses....

Who's got a clue?

Sami · May 2006

Demiurge wrote:

The Bible is written by Man as an extension of God.

Therefore it is open to interpretation and also to questions of its validity. That's why my post has also been (mostly) on topic for this movie as it deals with the same issues. If bible truely is word of god then I guess I'll need to break up with my girlfriend who is of different race and different faith (catholic) than I am to be a true Christian. Do you truely believe those are words of God, or words of men who wrote it in the bible?

If you choose to be blind in your faith then that's your decision.

Sami · May 2006

Drumingman wrote:

I wonder why anyone has not made a movie from the Salman Rushdie book, The Satanic Verses....

Who's got a clue?

While some of the Christians don't like debate over their belief, they aren't likely to be as fanatic as some muslims...

Drumingman · May 2006

Sami wrote:

Therefore it is open to interpretation and also to questions of its validity. That's why my post has also been (mostly) on topic for this movie as it deals with the same issues. If bible truely is word of god then I guess I'll need to break up with my girlfriend who is of different race and different faith (catholic) than I am to be a true Christian. Do you truely believe those are words of God, or words of men who wrote it in the bible?

If you choose to be blind in your faith then that's your decision.

Gee Sami, you've made some Very serious statements here against Christians and people who believe the Bible is the word. I really don't want to argue but you have seemed to make a statement that Christians are racist by stating that you'd have to break up with someone who is a different race from you. If you did your homework, You'd know that Moses was married to a black woman, does that mean that he is not a believer? Find out what you're taking about before you make WIDE sweeping statements, OK?

Thanks

rskarvan · May 2006

Obvious Audio Analogy:
Polk speakers are accurate (revealing the truth of the recording).
Bose speakers are entertaining but they color the original recording via DSP.
Do you want to hear the real music on the CD... or, do you want to simply enjoy altered music?
Some people care about what the artist had to say and wouldn't dare want to change that.
Others just care about being entertained and could care less about reproducing the artist's recording accurately.

My 2 cents (via deductive reasoning)....

I believe...The Bible is the truth and it is complete. I accept this as fact.

There is only one truth... Duh. There can only be one accurate truth.
Therefore, people who belive in anything else but the Bible are simply mistaken. (How could I possibly believe anything else since I accept the Bible as the only truth/fact).

Any misrepresentation of the Bible is... well, mis-information at best.
We can all speculate about the motivation behind mis-information. But, to me, its just mis-information.

Why would anybody deliberately try to mis-inform a fellow human being about their creator? The answer is as old as original sin.

Bible = Truth (Good).
DaVinci Code = Mis-information (Entertainment).

Sami · May 2006

Drumingman, I am not saying Christians are racist but I am saying that some of the writers of the bible were racist or had some other motive to keep races separated. That is why I believe it is not the word of god. Even if it is, it is changed by those who wrote it.

Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, people who translated the text also had a part in how the original text has changed. Different translation for words, mistaken words, which is where the whole debate whether bible is saying not to marry interracially or not comes from. All this opens it up for debate and that's what this movie tells you about, people interpreting the message of the bible and historical events differently. The stories have changed over time and over translations so how can one not debate about it? The bible you read in English now is not the same exact text it was back in the day in its original language, is it?

The Da Vinci Code

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