United 93

shepx2

pc or not, I've thought the same thing. the reaction to the mohamad pics was the worst (beside crashing planes into stuff, and most of the stuff Macleod allready mentioned.
I might be considerred non PC or insensitive if I say this, but I still chuckle when I hear Islam is the religion of Love. I guess nothin says love like popping a gasket and blowin **** up.

We Christians (Roman Catholics) caught heat for the whole pedophile thing (not that I'm the most religious guy mind you). I didnt get offended, I clearly stated that I thought it was disgusting. I didnt say, "how dare you generalize about all roman catholics being kid touchers, I'm offended". Stop being offended, get pissed off that these loons are destroying your religion, plain and simple. is your religion and tru faith in god important to you? the STEP THE EFF UP! or shut the yap

I couldn't have said it better. You brought a tear to my eye!!!!

mrbigbluelight

All WTC/Pentagon bombers were Saudis, were they not ?

ohskigod

most were, but I dont think all

jdhdiggs

mrbigbluelight wrote:

All WTC/Pentagon bombers were Saudis, were they not ?

And most Suadi's are...?

No, not all muslims are terrorists, but 99%+ of all terrorists are muslim.

Also Muslims don't seem to outraged by the actions of the terrorists.

ohskigod

jdhdiggs wrote:

And most Suadi's are...?

.

I hope that wasnt the direction he was going in

noimposse

Hate to dig up an old thread, but I saw this film yesturday. I didn't expect anything good from this movie, and it suprised the hell out of me. One of the best movies I have ever seen. Very intense.

I don't really know how to describe it, but I do heartily recommend it. I'm not usually affected emotionally by film, but this is the closest I have ever come to crying while watching a movie. That says a lot for me.

aaharvel

jdhdiggs wrote:

No, not all muslims are terrorists, but 99%+ of all terrorists are muslim.

What an extreme inflammation towards an entire group of people. I'm eagerly awaiting any proof you have to back that statement up.

(edit) The inconsistent opinions and McCarthyesque views of ultra-hawk Daniel Pipes hardly qualifies.

irishaz

+1

Saw this movie on Saturday night. Holy smokes.....

People clapped at the end of the movie and then there was complete silence in the theater. Even as people walked out to their car - silence. With all of the talk about people profiting from this movie and it being too soon, I was unsure of what to expect. This movie blew me away. The acting was mediocre, but I think that is how it was supposed to be. Greengrass made it seem like these were regular people in an awful situation. The documentary style of the film made me feel like I was actually on the plane. By the end of the movie, my heart was pounding and I was up on the end of my chair. Wow....

I don't care who profits from this movie...every adult american should see it. Americans have attention deficit disorder sometimes...this movie cures that. It brings back all of the fear, anger and sadness. In short, it's a great movie and one that will haunt you for a long time.

tommyboy

POLKOHOLIC wrote:

I am very much offended by this statement because you are clearly stereotyping all muslims as being terrorists. I myself am muslim and hope you choose better words next time. Try replacing 'muslim scum' from your vocabulary with something more civilized. Im sure you can handle that.

stereotyping is the reason the world is the **** it is today (I should say always been). I doesn't matter if you are black, hispanic, jewish, ****, muslim, we are all **** human beings. It just seems like humans try as hard as possible to differentiate ourselves to make us feel more superior than another.

I know I am getting off the point here but when I was arguing to a white christian about afro-americans, try to explain my case above, he said blacks are apes and are all poor because they are stupid idiots... well wait a second, if blacks are poor idiots, WHITE PEOPLE MADE THEM THAT WAY! white people put blacks in slums with no money and **** education. He thinks he is better than them for that reason...

Thats just one example of one race against another. Muslim hate us cause they think our beliefs are wrong and ruining the world (among other things) , americans hate muslims because everyone thinks they are just crazy psychos. it will never end...

jdhdiggs

aaharvel wrote:

What an extreme inflammation toward a group of people. I'm eagerly awaiting any proof you have to back that statement up.

(edit) The inconsistent opinions and McCarthyesque views of one Daniel Pipes hardly qualifies.

Reverse the hypothesis and prove me wrong... Since 2000, list all of the terrorist attacks that were not committed by Muslim's... Now you could make the argument that IED's and the like used against forces in Iraq are used against military targets. However, the goal is not to stop the military but to disrupt the way of life for the civilians in the area, and therefore, are terrorist in nature.

The best I can come up with is if you want to qualify some of the scool shootings as terrorist acts. Even then, the numbers are still below 1%. I hope you can prove me wrong. I sincerely do...

Who's Daniel Pipes?

Skynut

The radical muslims I see in interviews want us dead.

Dead.

They don't want us to join them or live in peace with them they want us dead.

We on the other hand just want to get along. I do not recall hearing any interviews from Americans that want all muslims dead. I never see chanting and cheering in our streets whenever some attrocity happens to their country or their people.

It seems pretty clear that we are at war but we are not allowed to actually try to win the war we only get to dabble in it.

jdhdiggs

Let's get back to the movie now...

tommyboy

This movie is doing this same thing companies were doing after september 11. I watched a lot of commercials where they said they were going to give the portion of your purchase to the september 11 fund (or whatever it was called). But when you look at the bottom of the screen, they give less than (around) a quarter of a percent. Now people say " well, that percent is better thatn nothing." True, but they are using the 3000 deaths on september 11 to get higher profits. If those companies really wanted to help, they should have just given them money without giving a percentage. This movie is doing the same thing. Using those people deaths for a profit. Now this movie would be fine 20 years from now, but not after only 5 years. We go to historical movies to learn something that we either were never apart of, or was a long time ago that we need to know what we went through again. We all remember almost everything that day.

aaharvel

jdhdiggs wrote:

Reverse the hypothesis and prove me wrong... Since 2000, list all of the terrorist attacks that were not committed by Muslim's... Now you could make the argument that IED's and the like used against forces in Iraq are used against military targets. However, the goal is not to stop the military but to disrupt the way of life for the civilians in the area, and therefore, are terrorist in nature.

The best I can come up with is if you want to qualify some of the scool shootings as terrorist acts. Even then, the numbers are still below 1%. I hope you can prove me wrong. I sincerely do...

Who's Daniel Pipes?

reverse the hypothesis? lol Nice try. Why can't you just provide proof for the ORIGINAL statement you made? "Since 2000" was not part of your original equation. Give me numbers and actual statistics to back what you say up, not just a feeling or opinion, and I'll be in full support.]

daniel_paul_

aaharvel, I am usually on your side. I like to play devils advicate. I like to understand both sides of the story. But when hundreds of thousands of muslums flood the streets (trampling each other) to have European news papers buildings blown up for printing a cartoon and look to kill the cartoonist, it is tough to say the radicals are a small portion of the religion.

aaharvel

daniel_paul_ wrote:

But when hundreds of thousands of muslums flood the streets (trampling each other) to have European news papers buildings blown up for printing a cartoon and look to kill the cartoonist, it is tough to say the radicals are a small portion of the religion.

well of course those radicals don't make up a small portion of Islam. But to say that it's 99%+, come on give me a break.

jdhdiggs

aaharvel wrote:

reverse the hypothesis? lol Nice try. Why can't you just provide proof for the ORIGINAL statement you made? "Since 2000" was not part of your original equation. Give me numbers and actual statistics to back what you say up, not just a feeling or opinion, and I'll be in full support.]

I keep forgetting who I'm talking to, nevermind. I'll use "active terrorists" Does that work for you cheif?

"You can't use the data reported by the guy who did all the research, now prove your point without using anything he did." Now I see why you included the name.

Some rough numbers from Isrealy Defense, DOJ and DOD: Since 2000 there have been over 25,000 terrorist attacks/attempted attacks against Isreal committed by Muslims. Over 5,000 attacks classified as "non-miltary" in Iraq committed by Muslims.

Just those two stats alone show an average of 5K per year or nearly 14 terrorist attacks or attempts every day of every year in those two countries alone. This does not count attempts in Indoneasia, Pakistan, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, etc..

So I guess you're right. Most terrorists aren't muslim's... :rolleyes:

Prove your point, it seems more people here believe similarly to me so wouldn't it be up to you to disprove and educate the heathens?

aaharvel

anyway as previously suggested, yeah the movie itself was excellent. I'm glad to see that it wasn't dumbed down into an anti-war/anti-Bush movie yet on the same token I'm also satisified that it didn't take the easy and lazy path to suggest that Contemporary Islam = The Great Satan.

ohskigod

tommyboy wrote:

Thats just one example of one race against another. Muslim hate us cause they think our beliefs are wrong and ruining the world (among other things) , americans hate muslims because everyone thinks they are just crazy psychos. it will never end...

muslim isnt a race, its a religion. your comparing apples and oranges

and yes, its all the white people's fault. everything. global warming, poverty, 70% of all flat tires, Baywatch being cancelled..........yep.....all our fault :rolleyes:

Fireman32

ohskigod wrote:

muslim isnt a race, its a religion. your comparing apples and oranges

and yes, its all the white people's fault. everything. global warming, poverty, 70% of all flat tires, Baywatch being cancelled..........yep.....all our fault :rolleyes:

we're responible for baywatch being cancelled! Dammit

aaharvel

jdhdiggs wrote:

Prove your point, it seems more people here believe similarly to me so wouldn't it be up to you to disprove and educate the heathens?

pick and choose sides here if you want.. but to say that 99%+ of all terrorist attacks are Muslims villifies an entire group of people, whether you want to admit it or not.

jdhdiggs

daniel_paul_ wrote:

aaharvel, I am usually on your side. I like to play devils advicate. I like to understand both sides of the story. But when hundreds of thousands of muslums flood the streets (trampling each other) to have European news papers buildings blown up for printing a cartoon and look to kill the cartoonist, it is tough to say the radicals are a small portion of the religion.

You're missing the point. Nowhere did anyone say that a majority of muslims are terrorists but rather most terrorists are muslim. Some seem to have a hard time grapsing the difference so another example:

Most middle age white males are seriel killers = False
Most seriel killers are middle age white males = True

Most Muslims are terrorists = False
Most Terrorists are Muslim = True

I forgot about those demonstrations. You forgot about the others in France due to working conditions where the military had to be called in as and average over 400 cars a night were destroyed for weeks. I never got the numbers for total killed and property damage committed by the dedicated lovers of peace. I'll go find that...

As for villifying people? How is it villifying someone if its fact? Look at the example above, if you can't see the distinction, no one can help you. I'll still ask you for proof of your counterpoint. Who else is committing the acts of terrorism? What are these acts? Where did they take place?

Since I've backed up my point, where's your data to prove your hunches? You have 300 attacks in the last 6 years just to get out of the hole Iraq and Isreal put your idea in.

aaharvel

JD, Can you provide me with an actual link to this info on number of terrorist acts and their assumed perpetraitors? Before 2000, since 2000, whatever?

If what you offer me truely reflects that 99%+ of all world terrorist acts then so be it. You win.

ohskigod

aaharvel wrote:

JD, Can you provide me with an actual link to this info on number of terrorist acts and their assumed perpetraitors? Before 2000, since 2000, whatever?

If what you offer me truely reflects that 99%+ of all world terrorist acts then so be it. You win.

this is like proving the f*cking sky is blue......DUDE CMON!!!!!!!

the vast majority of terrorist attacks are from those who profess themselves to be muslim. Is it a valid extension of mandated musim faith? thats where the argument is. I say no, but the majority of the muslim faith does a piss poor job speaking out against it. I dont get a clear message from the muslim faith that this is against muslim belief and tenant.

If they care what I think....they should do something about it, if not, then thats what I think....and there ya go! dont like it?, oh well! I hate paying taxes and my mortgage, and yet I still do it.

Demiurge

Who cares if it's 75% or 99%? What he says is an actual reflection of reality, but nobody wants to call a spade a spade for fear of offending someone. You're a white male, do you think anyone gives a crap about offending you?

It's not 75 year old grandmothers, 20 year old black American men, Japanese businessmen, Russian mail order brides, or Inuits from Alaska that are perpetuating terrorists attacks around the world.

aaharvel

ohskigod wrote:

this is like proving the f*cking sky is blue......DUDE CMON!!!!!!!

the vast majority of terrorist attacks are from those who profess themselves to be muslim.

the majority? absolutely.
vast majority? possibly.
99%+? not so sure.

there's a big difference between the two statements.
Toss in numbers and you go from generalized to specific. Big difference when you're discussing a hot-button issue such as this.

edit: Demi, good points.

jdhdiggs

I love this, you get to sit on your **** and genuflect while everyone else jumps through hoops for you:

http://www.usdoj.gov/
http://www.defenselink.mil/
http://www.defendamerica.mil/
http://www.mfa.gov.il/
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/
http://beta.bja.ncjrs.org/counter/stat/
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/intlterror.html (This sight is completed attacks and does not include attempted attacks)

Game set match:
http://www1.idf.il/dover/site/mainpage.asp?sl=EN&id=22&docid=16703

Of course this assumes that terrorist attacks against Isreal are done by Muslims and not 90 yr old white women.

For more fun:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/

tommyboy

ohskigod wrote:

muslim isnt a race, its a religion. your comparing apples and oranges

and yes, its all the white people's fault. everything. global warming, poverty, 70% of all flat tires, Baywatch being cancelled..........yep.....all our fault :rolleyes:

You missed my point. race, religion it doesn't matter, its all a way to make us feel more special/important than someone else and are willing to kill to prove it. And when did I say everything was white peoples fault, that was just an example. I could give an example for every single race and religion if you want me to use a whole page.

aaharvel

JD, great links. But none of them suggest that "99%+ of all terrorists are muslim."

your right- game, set, match. Thanks for disqualifying yourself. Maybe next time, you'll be more responsible and suggesting such an outlandish claim.

i'm done with this thread now. Loved the movie.

jdhdiggs

aaharvel wrote:

JD, great links. But none of them suggest that "99%+ of all terrorists are muslim."

your right- game, set, match. Thanks for disqualifying yourself. Maybe next time, you'll be more responsible and suggesting such an outlandish claim.

i'm done with this thread now. Loved the movie.

Ok, then who else is commiting terrorist acts against Isreal? Also, no way did you actually visit everyone of those sights, read the info and respond in that time so you disqualified yourself. I mean 5 minutes to read what I wrote, visit 9 sights, read that information (Most including pdf's to download and open which takes a good bit of time) and respond all in 5 minutes? You got a hell of a T1 line and speed reading skills. One of them did give you that info if you clicked just one link further than I provided. Your done because you lost and can't prove your point.

Here, we'll comprimise: 95%+ of all terrorists are muslim. That make you happier? What's the right number based on your data? Where is that data?

But I got to ask again: Who else is committing acts of terrorism?

Lou, Demi: He's just being as reactionary as he claims I am being. Pot-Kettle, the whole thing you know?