Behringer Truth B2031A

heiney9

There is no such thing as "flat". With source components, cables, room acoustics, source material, speakers, tone controls, speaker wires, hearing differences, expectations and many other variables, there is no such thing as a "flat response".

As usual we all go with what apeals to our own ears and tastes. Certainly we can make general statements which are usually only 50% true for 50% of the people. I know I made a generalization. All other things being equal I think it's pretty much true (see above 50/50 analogy) IMHO.

Tone controls are evil and a flat speaker sounds.........well flat. My problem w/ tone controls are they are very rudimentary and cover far to wide of bandwidth to do much good. The compensation curves are over a very large range and most are just boosting or cutting those broad frequencies, they aren't really correcting anything. They are just messing with our perception.

H9

Early B.

heiney9 wrote:

Studio/Pro gear rarely makes itself worthwhile for home use. It has been this way for along time. Two completely different set of expectations and executions. Same fact for home gear, it rarely makes itself worthwhile as studio/pro gear. It's just a fact.

Can anyone elaborate on this? What are the different set of expectations between studio monitors and home speakers?

SKsolutions

Sudio monitors are by design not overly musical or dynamic. While their respose may be flat, they are not designed to be flat, but designed to produce an average response - a response that if sounds good on a monitor, will sound good on most home speakers.
It's a step in the mix-down where you have to compensate for what it will be played on by the listener. It might be listened to in a car, or reproduced on a PA to a crowd of 80 thousand. The studio monitor is the baseline, not the cans.
I've used M&K, Fostex, Behriniger, Tannoy, Mackie, Alesis, KRK, EV, JBL when they didn't suck and many others that I cant remember from another life. They don't generally have much sonic character or deliver exceedinly accurate reproduction. Thats why it's hard to describe how they sound. They are however very revealing and can be listened to for hours without much fatigue. Great TV speakers, but not so hot for 2 channel in my opinion. I predict Sid will get bored with these quicker than he thinks. I took a pair home and the shine lasted for a few weeks, when I found something more dynamic.

Dig em while they shine Sid. If your happy, I'm sorry if I killed your buzz.

Early B.

Cool. Thanks for the explanation.

dorokusai

Flat or average response is the same thing....guess it depends on what audio dictionary you use.

SKsolutions

Get Bent

dorokusai

SKsolutions wrote:

Get Bent

No problem...got that covered already.

VR3

Cant kill my buzz about them, I know what I hear...

I looked at the FR chart of these speakers that were in the box, they really are "ruler" flat. I dont give a crap either way, I just know I like the way they sound.

To me, they are VERY dynamic, particularly in the snare and vocals... I also find them on the bright side, which is right up my alley.

You can slam them all you want, but until you remove the "monitor = bad" because its a "pro speaker" - you wont ever like them, even if you know they are better than what you have. Ive done that before, brand/type bias goes a long way.

If you think I am going to replace speakers I highly praised/praise because of price - you're nuts. If that was the case, id own some Beemer bookshelfs right now that came through here a while ago. GREAT speakers, just didnt cut it - cost alot less but sounded great...

These Behringers have the cost and performance that is supperrior is my room and matches my taste - I thoroughly enjoyed them and am just spreading the word...

I'm using a 800 dollar preamp instead of a dirty ol mixer as well, so take that one to the thought process bank and spin on it.

VR3

Sean your opinion dont count. Your ears like a freakin bat.

You bat.

RuSsMaN

If we all liked the same thing, life would be pretty boring.

Sid finally had the 'other' one drop, he can take a negative comment in stride with the rest of us. Personally, a lot of us have seen the lad through his audio journey so far, I respect his opinion (and his ears) - he's certainly asked enough questions, demoed a ton of gear (in his own home), done the DIY thing in spades, modded gear etc, etc.....

If he says they are worth putting my ears on, I'll certainly put them on the list.

Cheers,
Russ

PS, Madmax (Chuck) is the only member on the board that craps guano.

heiney9

Sid, you hear what you like.....you like what you hear.

F1nut

Sean your opinion dont count.

BINGO!!!

F1nut

Sid, all I was saying is that by making a speaker, any speaker have a flat response doesn't mean that it will sound good. It might and it might not. I'm not knocking your speaker or your opinion.

VR3

Ah, man I know...

Ive heard a few ruler flat speakers over the past few years...

Ive come to learn that just because they are designed to be ruler flat - dosnt mean they end up being ruler flat. Seems that when they are ruler flat, the other components (particularly the tweeter) comes more into play...

These speakers use an Aluminum/Titanium tweeter and it gives the speakers a brighter, more involving sound - regardless of their chart. I found that to be very nice and impressive...

Their low end is nothing special, they definitely need a subwoofer - you can run them full range, but only at near-field...

PS: For those in the arguing mood - I know the room changes the FR graph

Tour2ma

So we're supposed to argue that you don't know that?

Personally, I've never seen a ruler flat speaker FR test graph... even anechoic, let alone heard one in the real world. Then again I am now far removed from a ruler flat pair of ears in part due to a hefty dose of stupidity while messin' around with a 357 magnum a couple decades ago.

Sid,
Does your store have a web site? And if not, are they aware of your talents in that area?

organ

It's funny you guys mentioned this. One of the sales guy at the store I worked at really knew his stuff and one time he was talking to me about the M&K that we carried vs other speakers. He talked about them being flat and some people didn't like them for that reason.

I gave them a good listen. They're great and musical on good recordings. They really excelled on DVD-A and SACD.

dipiazza

These look real interesting. I want to get a desk system. Right now im just using some old dahlquists and an ancient kenwood receiver. They really arent getting it done in my dorm room and i think these might bet the ticket.

Any idea what kind of sound card would be best to use with these guys?

Im running a laptop, and that would be my primary source so i would need some kind of USB external soundcard with 1/4'' or XLR outputs. Right now i use an M-Audio Sonica Theater... all its got is coax out and then headpone jacks out to each speaker. It works basically like a pre. but i need somethin else.

Maybe you could check out what you got at the store or what they reccomed for usage with these speakers in a laptop setting as source.

thanks!

-Jake

SKsolutions

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

Cant kill my buzz about them, I know what I hear...

You can slam them all you want, but until you remove the "monitor = bad"

. . . and spin on it.

Sid,

I was sincere when I said I was not looking to be a buzzkill. In the course of working in the field, I used many of them. They are supposed to sound good. They are 'Studio' equip. They are made to be listenable for hours without fatigue. They are made to be very detailed and forward, but they shouldn't be 'bright' which causes fatigue in most.

I would still have a pair of old Fostex if I didn't hock them years ago when times were tight. I used them in the bedroom as a second sys and loved em for what they were. I haven't heard the model you have, I was just providing some insight into what the intended application for Studio Monitors.

VR3

About the soundcard question...

All you need to run these on a sound card is an adapter or cable that goes from a XLR or 1/4 to an 1/8" plug (computer jack plug) - that would be your "cheapest" way out. That is what I would have to recomend someone in the store.

Alot of stores will "custom" make you a cable, possible a 1/4" jack to an 1/8" jack...

SK,
I appreciate it. Ive owned and heard alot of speakers, and I dunno - Ive just come to ignore "uses", "cost" and "brand" - they really are...meaningless in the end...

To be quite honest with you, while the Behringer Truth was "good" at near-field with some decent staging, I wasnt that impressed with their center staging (side staging was phenominal) or clarity at a nearfield stance, but man - once I got them away from me, it was an entirely different ball game.

Now sure, I have better placement, Im running a preamp instead of a mixer - but Im sure 90% (if not higher) of the monitors you've heard were on a mixer and not a preamp...

I mean, ya know...

Joey_V

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

To be quite honest with you, while the Behringer Truth was "good" at near-field with some decent staging, I wasnt that impressed with their center staging (side staging was phenominal) or clarity at a nearfield stance, but man - once I got them away from me, it was an entirely different ball game.

Isnt side-staging indicative of the inability to image at all? This isnt anything to call "phenomenal" I think.

VR3

I love side staging, and umm - if my speakers couldnt stage...away from the center - I wouldnt own them.

Who wants everything in the center?

At near-field, The Behringers had a 180 degree sound field with music, which is about what I expected at a nearfield... it placed instruments/vocals in that type of manner.

In one song the guy was showing me, it was like some big dude was rapping in my right ear...

You'll have to explain more...as your comments made as much sense to me as mine made to you.

On a side note...

I would love to own speakers that posessed side staging in a normal stereo setup.

I mean, imagine if there was two guitarist, and instead of sandwhiching one between the far left guitarist and the singer in the center, you put the far left guitarist like to the left stage (parallel to your ear) and put the one that would be in the middle to the place the far left guitarist usually would be.

Maybe I have different perspective on imaging. Right, Wrong - who cares, I want something that I enjoy! - but just so you know, in a conventional setup, their stage is also conventional - has the height, width, depth, and the occasional front to back ambience...along with some ambience side staging...

organ

Wow Sid, you must really like these new speakers. Saw your FS posts at the FM forum. Glad you've found something that works great for you. I gotta say, it looks like your taste is changing too. You went from sweet and laid back to a more forward tweeter.

I agree with you about the metal tweets. I really like the ones on my RF's. They seem to have better snap and transient. Probably explains why I like the tri-lams a lot on Polk's older RT line.

PolkThug

Midnite Mick wrote:

Please forgive my ignorance but I thought that all good speakers were designed for a flat response.

Mike

I think it goes back to the "truth vs. beauty" idea.

organ

True, I find that Polk speakers have more emphasis in the mid range and upper bass. This IMO, makes them musical. My current RF speakers aren't flat but I love the sound.

Some like it flat, others want voluptuous.

VR3

The DTs were actually fairly bright, these are slightly calmer, yet has more detail - all depends on the taste.

You can always tell when you're hearing a better speaker, because it just sounds more open and detailed...

Love it, now if I can just get rid of my radio problem.

organ

What radio problem?

dipiazza

Sid, Have you ever heard the DT powermonitors? The bookshelves with the powered woofers? I was thinking those might be something worth a try.

However the DT dealers near me dont carry the line, kinda weird.

VR3

I cant stand powered sub speakers. Nothing is harder to setup and more annoying to deal with.

That aside, you wont get a better full range monitor that is built better. Those things have like 1" thick HDF wood - very heavy, very well built.

In that price range though, your looking at so many options - LSi, Def Tech towers, you name it - tons of stuff. But the power monitors series is nice if you like the design.

Radio problem, the right speaker is picking up a major radio station. The guys at Behringer said 1 out of 10 have this problem... and to try a plug that disabled the ground (which Im not going to try, I dont believe in adaptors at all - atleast on my mains/main amps) ----the other option is to send it to them and have a shielding thing added. They said it will cost me, but I am going to have to call them and let me know that if 1 out of 10 of these speakers feature this issue, then they should have this shielding piece IN the loudspeaker already.

organ

I don't think disabling the ground will cause any problem. It's pretty much like a cheater plug.

Is the problem on your pair or the pair borrowed from the store?

Schris22

must have been an interesting shock when you heard that right speaker. 1 out of 10 sounds pretty high...agree with you on how the shielding should already be implemented in all of them.