Ultimate Speakers for $2000-$2500 Range

steveinaz

Zero wrote:

edit; alright, let me actually give a decent response..


Steve,

Paradigm's major strength at its price-point is being a powerhouse speaker capable of loud, clean volume with good weight and impact. For those who love to rock out and shake their foundations, yes, in that price range - the Studio 100 is a speaker to put on your short list to audition.

Build quality wise, there is nothing spectacular about anything from Paradigm, sans perhaps the Signature Series. The cab's are modestly built - the cosmetics are only OK given whats available today, the drivers are cheap as are the components inside. Ok, I'm not going to beat around the bush - its a cheap speaker.

Sonically - well it depends on what your bag is. Compared to the LSi's, the Studio series wont get you anywhere but lower build quality and a much different sound. But if blasting the paint off your wall is not a major part of your listening experience, there are speakers out there for half price that run circles around the Studio 100. It has its place, but in that crowd, its easily put to pasture.

Couldn't disagree more, but then it's all opinion and preference anyway isn't it?

I know the "IN" thing is to recommend some esoteric, tiger-eye maple mini-mite speaker, that is 12" x 14" x 7" and weighs 78lbs; but in the end, I'll stick with the proven standards, the Paradigm Ref Studio 100 being one of them---it's far more than a wall-blaster, but thats MY opinion. Many felt the same way about the vintage AR9, which is now a classic. The esoterics come and go, but the standards are always there, coincidence?

steveinaz

jmierzur wrote:

After owning the LSi9 speakers for 3.5 years, I can assure you that they will create a great soundstage and will dissappear when properly setup within the room. If this is your only complaint and you enjoy the sonic characteristics of the LSi9, then I would suggest you start optimizing the speaker location. Post a picture so we can see where the speakers are located and offer suggestions.

I agree, when I tested the Lsi9 in my system, the sound was extremely impressive, and extended far beyond the speakers' cabinet. I had them about 8' apart, and about 3' off the back wall, with about a 1/2" of toe-in.

LuSh

Normally I'd start ranting and raving about the importance of the source and how everything begins there, but after reading a response or two I've concluded you want new speakers and it would make you the most happy. Even if I think your source and speaker placement are the glaring weaknesses in your current setup. At the end of the day do what makes you happy.

Gaara

I would have to add a few more into the fray. I was looking right around this range a while back, and for various reasons I went with the Gallos. I was also looking into:

Zu Druids
Odyssey Audio Lorelei
Vandersteen 3a
Von Schweikert VR4jr

There are tons of great options out there for right around this price range, it all depends on what you want to get out of your system, your room, musical preferences, etc.

steveinaz

LuSh wrote:

Normally I'd start ranting and raving about the importance of the source and how everything begins there, but after reading a response or two I've concluded you want new speakers and it would make you the most happy. Even if I think your source and speaker placement are the glaring weaknesses in your current setup. At the end of the day do what makes you happy.

Lush is correct. Get a source that will exploit the capabilities of the Lsi9 before switching gears on speakers. I don't normally like to "derail" the original question asked, because it's a pet peeve of mine; but these thoughts are worth considering. Your lack of soundstage width/depth is most certainly due to your choice of source, be it the Xbox OR Panny DVD.

ohskigod

steveinaz wrote:

Lush is correct. Get a source that will exploit the capabilities of the Lsi9 before switching gears on speakers. I don't normally like to "derail" the original question asked, because it's a pet peeve of mine; but these thoughts are worth considering. Your lack of soundstage width/depth is most certainly due to your choice of source, be it the Xbox OR Panny DVD.

definitly put me in that category too. I had to bite the bullet too with the source before I blew out the speaker budget. made things take longer, but the wait was well worth it.

get the source, let it burn in and revaluate it. Not to say dont get speakers down the road, but gotta keep all the components on an even keel quality wise.

Lsi9

Thanks again guys...My Ht setup is basically in front of a double window (no choice) with no walls on the left speaker's side...maybe I should try a new source but with HD/Blue Ray Dvd coming out it might be hard...I love that new Marantz Universal Player (have you seen it) looks great!


Gaara which Gallos? What do you like about them?


another question for you guys; two of my buds have ls90s with good sources...it seems like the Lsi9s come close to the ls90s sound but just dont stack up especially in mid to upper range...do you guys also think that the Ls90s sound better than the 9s?

steveinaz

That's a matter of personal preference bubba. I don't care for bookshelf speakers myself.

F1nut

Lsi9 wrote:

another question for you guys; two of my buds have ls90s with good sources...it seems like the Lsi9s come close to the ls90s sound but just dont stack up especially in mid to upper range...do you guys also think that the Ls90s sound better than the 9s?

You can tell that from listening to movie sound tracks or music?

Idea: Ask them if you can borrow one or both of their good sources to see if you can hear a difference for yourself.

Blu Ray/HD DVD.....don't hold your breath. Besides, they are video formats only, there is no hi-rez audio involved.

heiney9

Much Better source = Much better sound and the soundstaging you are looking for. You'll blow your $2500 wad on a new set of speaks and be in the same boat you are now. It's your money.......do what you want but you've got a ways to go component wise before you reach the limitation of the LSI's.

H9

mantis

heiney9 wrote:

Much Better source = Much better sound and the soundstaging you are looking for. You'll blow your $2500 wad on a new set of speaks and be in the same boat you are now. It's your money.......do what you want but you've got a ways to go component wise before you reach the limitation of the LSI's.

H9

I agree with this.The Lsi's do sing when properly powered and have great sources in front of them. Better wire and placement helps them 2.

I can't see most people not being completely happy witht e sound quality of the Lsi series. They are very balanced and natural sounding. Only the pickiest of people will want more then that. Or have bigger wallets.

Dan

ohskigod

F1nut wrote:

You can tell that from listening to movie sound tracks or music?

Idea: Ask them if you can borrow one or both of their good sources to see if you can hear a difference for yourself.

Blu Ray/HD DVD.....don't hold your breath. Besides, they are video formats only, there is no hi-rez audio involved.

I own both, and if you prefer the ls90 over the LSi9 that much, you need to look at your set up. not the speaker. trust me on this. Get your 9's over to your friends house and side by side them. The LS90's are great speakers, I havent sold mine yet, but I'm NOT terribly upset about it. If they stay at my house then so be it, they are great speaks, but the LSi9 on my 2 channel rig gave a more detailed sound in the mids and highs, more refined for lack of a better phrase.

you got a weakness in your chain (hey, happens to all of us) and the source is the first place to start.

again, bring those LSi9's to your friends house and A/B em, really get to know those 9's before your dump em.

Believe it or not, I go through times where my Carver Platinums annoy me. took me a little while and experimentation (and advise from the gang here) that placement was the issue. Found a set up recently that allows me to get more out of them in terms of what I know they can do. Point is, I allways try to squeez as much as I can from any gear, especially speakers, before I pass em off and upgrade.

ohskigod

just looked at my post again, and noticed I quoted the wrong thing....DUH!!!

heiney9

Zero wrote:

Hey kid (lsi9)

Heres a random, BS thought. If your computer is closer to your a/v system - heres an easy, inexpensive, kick-**** solution. Buy yourself an E-Mu1212M and run dual sound-cards. Using your PC as a source with even a decent card like that will stomp the hell out of stand-alone cd players. Theres just no competition. Its easy, its cheap, and it works. The downside is the work it may take to rip cd's to the pc in a reliable fashion, assuming the HD space is there.

Here's a random comment...........that's a waste of a great speaker like the Lsi9. The whole computer as a source has been covered before. Granted there are some nice sound cards out there and some do sound a bit better than the avg $50 cdp or dvdp and perhaps even an Xbox. But, IMO why waste the Lsi's on that.

Now if you use the right software and rip your cd's in a lossless format like Flac and use a high quality outboard Dac fed via a digital out on a sound card then you might have something especially if you have decent amplification, it's still a waste though.

My brother has Lsi7's in his computer rig. Adcom Dac and Adcom integrated. It sounds very good, but I still think it's a waste of a great speaker especially the way he has them set up. He likes it and always has the ability to use them in more proper manner. It works well, could he have spent less and gotten equally great results? Yes.

YMMV

H9

Joey_V

I dont completely agree with Heiney...

I think that the LSi9 is perfectly adept at being hooked to a computer provided it is lossless and using a digital out onto possibly an outboard Dac like the CIAudio DAC or the Benchmark DAC1. Lossless has no jitter, a concept that plagues all but the best cd players... and there is no reason why a well managed pc based system hinders the capability of the LSi9.

Heck, I use Summits with my computer, but I am trying to do what I can to remove it to it's own 2ch domain as we speak. It'll probably take me a year though.

heiney9

Zero wrote:

H9,

What can I say? Enjoy your cheap run of the mill stand alone players. If it works for ya, great.

Sean,

What cheap run of the mill stand alone players? .

heiney9

Joey_V wrote:

I dont completely agree with Heiney...

I think that the LSi9 is perfectly adept at being hooked to a computer provided it is lossless and using a digital out onto possibly an outboard Dac like the CIAudio DAC or the Benchmark DAC1. Lossless has no jitter, a concept that plagues all but the best cd players... and there is no reason why a well managed pc based system hinders the capability of the LSi9.

Heck, I use Summits with my computer, but I am trying to do what I can to remove it to it's own 2ch domain as we speak. It'll probably take me a year though.

Ok I'll back off my statement a little bit if it's set-up the way you and I described. Thinking further, my brother's placement of speakers is less than optimum and that's why I don't like it. He has them sitting on a computer table, pushed againt the wall about 1 foot in front of him, not even close to ideal. So yes, if you set them up properly in the room and use an outboard DAC you could do quite well.

H9

Joey_V

heiney9 wrote:

Ok I'll back off my statement a little bit if it's set-up the way you and I described. Thinking further, my brother's placement of speakers is less than optimum and that's why I don't like it. He has them sitting on a computer table, pushed againt the wall about 1 foot in front of him, not even close to ideal. So yes, if you set them up properly in the room and use an outboard DAC you could do quite well.

H9

H9,

Agreed 100%.

audiobliss

All right, there we go. We all ended on a good note. Isn't that rare?

Joey_V

Audiobliss,

How do you like the RF35? Any plans of going up to the RF83 or the legendary RF7?

Joey

heiney9

audiobliss wrote:

All right, there we go. We all ended on a good note. Isn't that rare?

All except Sean's out of left field comment about cheap stand alone players I apparently own, but have never seen. No offense taken just wondering where the idea came from. :eek:

H9

audiobliss

Joey_V wrote:

Audiobliss,

How do you like the RF35? Any plans of going up to the RF83 or the legendary RF7?

Joey

I'm quite pleased with my RF35 as my first set of decent speakers. I see *no* reason to run out and get the RF83, and I don't foresee me ever having a large enough room to justify the RF7, though I would love to at least listen to such a commanding speaker.

To be honest, I feel that the RF35 is of good enough quality and representative enough of the Klipsch sound that I'll say with a fair degree of confidence that I won't buy anymore Klipsch speakers. Not that I don't like them, I just feel the RF35 is enough.

If I get anymore speakers, and I hope I do at some point, I would be interested in something 'smoother', something more closely associated with smooth, warm, accurate reproduction. Perhaps something from B&W, Dynaudio, Monitor Audio, etc. Who knows.

But that's the way I see things at the moment.

heiney9

Zero wrote:

H9,

My comment is in reference to the comparison to $50 dvd players and console systems. I got a good laugh out of it, whether thats the way it was intended or not. Its all gravy man, if we all felt the same way and heard the same thing then this wouldn't be a hobby to any of us.

Well I have compared them at times, but other than the $50 dvdp which is in a closet as back-up I can't say I own any other el-cheapo's. The Xbox was a friends and my Pioneer Dvdp is about 4 years old and was expensive then like $300 and it really performs like a $50 Dvdp of today (hence why I look back and think it was expensive). The audio quality is horrid as is the sound of most low to mid-priced soundcards.

Anyways, it's all good.

H9

F1nut

Zero wrote:

Hey kid (lsi9)

Heres a random, BS thought. If your computer is closer to your a/v system - heres an easy, inexpensive, kick-**** solution. Buy yourself an E-Mu1212M and run dual sound-cards. Using your PC as a source with even a decent card like that will stomp the hell out of stand-alone cd players. Theres just no competition. Its easy, its cheap, and it works. The downside is the work it may take to rip cd's to the pc in a reliable fashion, assuming the HD space is there.

What a crock of ****!

Gaara

Lsi9,

I got the Gallo Ref 3.1s to replace my LSi9s and my LSiC. They actually didn't match the LSiC very well, mainly because the Refs are low to the ground and my center was above my tv, pretty high up.

As for why I choose them, I did reviews of speakers in this price range and had actually narrowed it down to the Gallos and the Odyssey Audio Loreleis. In the end I choose the Gallos for various personal reasons including: good sound quality at low volumes, they like high power amps, flexible with placement, great horizontal dispersion, very wide deep soundstage, work well in small rooms, work best a few feet from the wall in back of them, and their ability to disappear.

The big things were flexibility, good sound at low volumes, and their ability to disappear. Now that I have them I love them, they are great for HT and work much better then I ever expected as a phantom center. I never planned to do that but after doing some listening with the LSiC in the mix and without there was no comparison. With two-channel music I love them because they completely disappear, and when I listen I listen lying down. They have great dispersion and when I lie down I can still hear a fantastic soundstage, even though my head is in front of the right speaker. I am very happy with my decision overall and wouldn't think twice about doing it again.

Jared

F1nut

Sean, your opinons are akin to farting in the wind. Here one second, gone the next. How do you expect anybody to take you seriously!?!

You actually said it best, Here's a random BS thought.

F1nut

Yes Sean, we all know how you like to latch onto the lastest fad or cheap gadget that comes down the audio pipeline. Let's see, some of your highly acclaimed stuff, turned POS have been low wattage chip amps, modded Toshiba cdp's, NEC CD-R drives as transports, etc, etc. If you want to call that experiencing audio, have at it. You still can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. In fact, I'd say from what you've said over the years, that you still haven't found THE sound you're looking for. Perhaps it'll be a never ending search for you, sort of like being in purgatory. But, that's what one gets when they keep barking up the wrong tree.

As for me, I've got better things to do with my legs, my time and my money.

Lsi9

I wish I could audition comparably priced Paradigms and Dynaudio speaks, I still think they paradigms would hold their weight

steveinaz

Well, Sean had me a little confused; "paradigm's are ****, but it's cool to run your stuff thru a computer" thing kinda threw me...

But then I remembered, my son is 24. I think I'll stand by my paradigm recommendation...

F1nut

Jesse,

I got to hand it to you, you still keep yappin’ even when you have nothing but **** in your bag. But then again, that’s what you do. Funny, all that talk yet we still haven’t heard hide nor hair about your experience with the PC. Surely a man with all your experience, well with a golden ear and all, that resides such disdain for a concept – has his reasons? Hmm, I’m thinking this is more **** from the bag – as usual.

As for the inexpensive (POS, as you call it) gear…., I don’t ever expect you to fathom why anyone would like what those pieces have to offer. Seriously – you will never get it and its not worth my time to try and explain it to you. You don’t take me seriously? Great. You and whoever else can form a line as it means no difference to me.

Computers are a great thing Sean, for example they allow me to copy and paste the garbage that you post and then delete. As a source for high fidelity playback, keep dreaming son. But hey, what do I know? Hmmmmm...let me tell you. I know that whatever it is that you're praising this week will be found lacking the next. You prove it time and time again, yet as I stated in my last post and which seems to have buzzed the tower (no surprise there) you still can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. That son, is experience.......Lesson Over!

As for my bag? Who knows, probably a stinking pile in there somewhere, but you've got the joker's hat in yours. I'll keep my bag, thank you.

As for not taking you seriously, I'm afraid that's all your doing or perhaps I should say, your undoing.