Mirage versus SVS

janmike
janmike Posts: 6,146
edited April 2006 in Subwoofer Hookup & Bass Management
I visited the local audio shop the other day and listened to a Mirage OMNI S12 sub. It did rock the room. Actually so much that a crack was evident on the wall about 7 feet long. The guys is the shop said the sub caused the crack and I went on ....Ya Right. Any way, anyone care to compare this sub (meaning having listened to BOTH of them) to the SVS PB12-Plus. Other than very poor workmanship, can a sub do this much damage? Thanks folks.
Michael ;)
In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited February 2006
    Unless that mirage was running some extreme sinewave at 2hz, I highly* doubt it caused the crack in the wall. I mean...REALLY. Do you know how much force that would be? I dont think ANY man made sound device could cause that...

    The mirage only has 300 watts... it looks to have good extention, all that...

    But for $800 bucks? Hmmmmmm - Im going to have to say you can do better, just based on the specs.

    Mirage is a great, quality company - Energy is made by the same company, just to give you an idea.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    It's a tough decision based purely on $$$. The shipping rate plus the USA echange rate makes that SVS purchase between $1300 & $1400 CDN. I am not looking to rattle the walls but GREAT sound quality for HT.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited February 2006
    Well the Mirage, according to a review i read hit down to 20hz, it seems like a solid sub...

    But I dont think itd put a crack in the wall. *rollseyes*
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Shut your mouth Michael
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited February 2006
    If the wall was paper machet maybe. Whatever.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • Paul in Canada
    Paul in Canada Posts: 178
    edited February 2006
    janmike wrote:
    It's a tough decision based purely on $$$. The shipping rate plus the USA echange rate makes that SVS purchase between $1300 & $1400 CDN. I am not looking to rattle the walls but GREAT sound quality for HT.

    janmike, I am also in Canada and I am hoping to purchase a sub soon. I have been hearing a lot of great things about SVS subs and I was considering contacting them but have not yet. I have never purchase equipment directly from the U.S.A. and I was wondering if there would a lot of extra charges or headaches that I might have. What other good quality subs have you seen here in Canada?
    Polk RTi 8's
    Polk CSi 5
    FXIA4"s
    Outlaw Audio M200 x2
    Denon AVR 2805
    Sony CDP C345
    Paradigm PW2200 Sub
    Panasonic 50"

    "It's futile to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person." demaples July 29/08
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited February 2006
    As I said in the other thread, I have the Energy s12.3, same sub, different style cabinet. It's rated 300 watts RMS, 1200 watts max.

    I didn't compare it with an SVS, but have compared it with the HSU STF3. It smoked it. It is worth it's $800 retail. You should be able to get it much cheaper, as Mirage seems to be closing these out. Both Tweeter and Vann's have been selling them for $399 with free shipping.

    Very easy to integrate with my system, love it for music, and seems to have plenty for HT.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Not a whole lot as I am kind of new to the sub world. I do own a REL which is great for music, but the one I have lacks that immense punch for HT. My understanding is that the SVS sub is exempt from duty as (I think) some of the parts are from Canada. My whole question is how much better is the SVS sub I am considering to other ones at the same price level. The folks here are huge advocates of SVS and no doubt SVS produces a great product. One good thing, SVS has a great return policy and I could return it if I found that it was not worthy of the $$. Then again, I would be on the hook for the shipping both ways, so I would not come out on the top end. I really do like the look of the wood finish on the SVS subs. At least the pictures look good.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • michael_w
    michael_w Posts: 2,813
    edited February 2006
    I'd be a little freaked out about customs fees or duties... Some products I've ordered have managed to escape any extra fees at all even though they were declared properly (not labeled as gift or low value) while others have been hit with fees close to half the price of the product itself.

    I was going to say check out hsu, since you can buy them from dealers in Canada, but if William says the Energy smoked the stf 3 maybe not... I guess I can't really help much since I've never heard an svs or hsu :confused:
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    I agree michael, those extra fees could kill you. Even putting "gift" is no guarantee against those border thieves.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • michael_w
    michael_w Posts: 2,813
    edited February 2006
    I seem to recall ups charges brokerage fees which can be insanly high so if you do happen to order from the states usps seems to be the best way to go. I think it was the UPS guy that told me to ship expensive items usps to save a hell of a lot of cash as he handed me the latest $90 customs bill. Even with it as a 'gift' I belive it still gets provincial tax (+14% here), yet some of my items have made it across the border with no fees except actual shipping... odd how things work sometimes.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    I have ordered a number of things from the US and like you said, You win some and then....
    I have been pondering this acquisition for some time now and the folks (most) here offer very professional, sound advice. I'll forget the childish sarcasm at times.
    Ron at SVS has been very helpful and is going to provide all the costs to me tomorrow. He is one true pro and that goes a long way with me. It’s just a matter of sucking it up and paying the additional fees for something that you will not regret down the road. Time will tell.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • gregure
    gregure Posts: 871
    edited February 2006
    I've no doubt absolutely that the SVS PB12 + is a far better unit than the Mirage. I don't think Mirage makes any sub that can stand up to an SVS + driver. I think even the PB 10 beats it out for HT purposes, although is a little boomy for music, especially if you're used to a REL.

    Another consideration: Martin Logan subs. The Grotto is a great place to start, and I know they have Canadian dealers. Check out the website to find one near you. I think everyone should at least hear these subs before making a sub purchase. When I worked at Magnolia, I sold the Grotto more than any other sub, and every single customer came back and wouldn't stop talking about how impressed they were with it. Especially for the size.

    Martin Logan Website
    Current System:

    Mitsubishi 30" LCD LT-3020 (for sale**)
    Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand (Rosewood)-Mains (with Audioquest Mont Blanc cables)
    CSi5-Center (for sale**)
    FXi3-surrounds (for sale**)
    Martin Logan Depth-Sub
    B&K AVR 507
    Pimare CD21-CD Player
    Denon 1815-DVD Player
    Panamax M5500-EX-Line Conditioner
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  • Ron Temple
    Ron Temple Posts: 3,212
    edited February 2006
    There's been a ton of comparison threads and posts on AVS regarding the S12 and the PB10, which with the Vanns/Tweeters sales are competing at ~ $400US. The Omni got a very good review from S&V in 2004 and was compared to a VTF3.2, almost. Couldn't hang musically or extention, but very respectable. Consensus is that from 25hz up it's a real winner and exceeds the PB10s output, but rolls off down to 20 hz to about 85db(IIRC). The PB10 is in the high 90s at 18hz, but tops out in the low 100s due to it's limiter. It's basically a case of what you want extention or output. At $400US, it's something to think about vs. the PB10 not the Plus or Plus/2.

    Combo rig:

    Onkyo NR1007 pre-pro, Carver TFM 45(fronts), Carver TFM 35 (surrounds)
    SDA 1C, CS400i, SDA 2B
    PB13Ultra RO
    BW Silvers
    Oppo BDP-83SE
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Thanks for the info. Great items to consider for sure. The shipping costs for the SVS will probably break the camel's back. Because of my location, the shipping costs came in at:

    2039PCPlus $329.34(US)
    PB12-Plus $250(US)

    Add any additional broker fees and it's $1500+ CDN for the PB-12-Plus. Ouch!
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited February 2006
    Since your up north, look into some paradigm subs. I know some of their higher end stuff competes $ to $ with SVS once brokerage fees and shipping are included.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    For those Canadians that are interested, the total cost for the SVS PB12-Plus comes in at $1,615.06 CAD. That is door to door ALL fees included. Mind you, your shipping may be a little less.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • StopherJJ1980
    StopherJJ1980 Posts: 267
    edited February 2006
    Sounds liek a great gimmick to build a listening room with a huge crack to tell people that sub "caused" it :) Either that or just sell some subs next to a pile of rubble on the street that "used to be your store" :)
    -Stopher
    Tempe, AZ

    Setup:
    Polk RTi8 Mains
    Polk CSi5 Center
    Polk FXi3's Surround
    Cerwin Vega HTS10 Subwoofer
    Yamaha HTR-5740 AVR

    Upstairs R50/R15/CS1 5.1 setup w Pioneer AVR
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  • StopherJJ1980
    StopherJJ1980 Posts: 267
    edited February 2006
    By the way... Is this really a selling point for anyone??? I would think if someone said that a sub would do structural damage to my home which costs way more than any sub I would pass on it.
    -Stopher
    Tempe, AZ

    Setup:
    Polk RTi8 Mains
    Polk CSi5 Center
    Polk FXi3's Surround
    Cerwin Vega HTS10 Subwoofer
    Yamaha HTR-5740 AVR

    Upstairs R50/R15/CS1 5.1 setup w Pioneer AVR
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    So do you have an opinion of the Mirage S12 sub?
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • Willow
    Willow Posts: 11,017
    edited February 2006
    WilliamM2 wrote:
    As I said in the other thread, I have the Energy s12.3, same sub, different style cabinet. It's rated 300 watts RMS, 1200 watts max.

    I didn't compare it with an SVS, but have compared it with the HSU STF3. It smoked it. It is worth it's $800 retail. You should be able to get it much cheaper, as Mirage seems to be closing these out. Both Tweeter and Vann's have been selling them for $399 with free shipping.

    Very easy to integrate with my system, love it for music, and seems to have plenty for HT.

    I have the S10.2 and enjoy it quit a bit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Thanks guys. I really think I am going to purchase one of these. I want it for HT and at 1/3 the price of an SVS (for me that is) I wonder if the SVS is 3X's the Mirage ONMI S12. Some may think so.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited February 2006
    While Im sure the Mirage is great...

    The what if is going to haunt you man...

    Unless size or something is an issue... save your money... go big...or stay home - that whole thing. Once your hitting down to 15hz STRONG - you will forget you even thought of the Mirage.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Well thanks for the advice Sid; I really do respect your opinion. I am just really trying to entertain HT enthusiasts here at home, including myself. As for "The what if", it has never haunted me; nor would I let it. As for going BIG, I will reserve that for my 2CH RIG that I am currently building. And that my friend will be BIG.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited February 2006
    Understandable...

    Just hate to see people not get the best possible - even if it means a lil more money...

    The PCi series would be a better bet if anything...

    Whats your 2 channel rig going to be consisting of?
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Right now I have Polk all the way around (RTi100's, CSi5, RTi6's)
    The new speakers will be Fidelity Acoustic driven with Naim gear. While I would like NAC-383, NAP-250 and the CDS-3, I will probably settle for some lower model like Nait 5i & CD5i. I have heard these speakers and combined with the aforementioned gear, they sounded great. Actually, better than the Proac D38’s and that is what I was thinking of purchasing. I think I really like that British sound. The REL sub that I currently own will blend in nicely. While that may not be BIG for some people, for me it is.

    As for the PCi sub, I actually do not like the cylinder style nor does my wife. And if she isn't happy... well, you will learn more about how to appease the ones you love and live with down the road.

    The guys from SVS gave me their expert opinion and I commend them on their analysis. The 2 subs they recommended are just too expensive to ship to my location. The one was well over $300 USA funds just to ship, plus broker fees… At some point I need to determine how much money I am willing to spend of a sub just for HT. People may not agree, but that is my rationale. I guess my logic is that I have a set budget I allocate to myself per year for audio. If I can save $1000 on a sub, still be happy, then I can use that $1K to increase the 2CH down the road. That is where I want my system to shine.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,644
    edited February 2006
    Have you considered the Paradigm Servo 15 or w/e it is, Paradigm apparently makes great subs....

    2 Channel is so much better than HT, so god speed and rock on! I know I wouldnt do it any differently...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    I have not looked at Paradign, but probably would be good as I dismissed their floor speakers years ago because I felt there was far too much bass. I will check them out and then look for opinions from people that have actually heard them. The people here who have actually heard the Mirage seem to be quite happy.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    Perfect, all I need. My wife asking me if I am going to be content with the Mirage. Sounds like a conspiracy to me.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • WilliamM2
    WilliamM2 Posts: 4,775
    edited February 2006
    I'll don't unstand how Sid can recommend against the Mirage, when he has never heard it. Then he recommends the Paridigm, which he has never heard either?
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