most expensive cables

TroyD

BjornB17 wrote:

Fair enough I don't mean to make enemies here. I'm just trying to a prove a point which a strongly belive in. :eek:

In doing so you are insulting the intelligence of people who actually OWN and have EXPERIENCE with these types of objects. It's your OPINION, which by definition can NOT BE PROVED.

I mean, do you thing that we just buy this **** because we are ignorant sheep? That's the only conclusion I can draw. Now, if you choose not to believe in cables, bully for you. No skin off my back. However, if you are suggesting but if that's what you honestly believe, you don't know me well enough to insult me and you can, politely, blow it out your ****.

BDT

F1nut

BjornB17 wrote:

So are you suggesting that the quantity of watts is the only thing that could be looked at? Hmmmm...

I guess you are suggesting that differences in sound just magically happen.

No more so than the quantity (gauge) of a cable. Actually, you've admitted something with that comment, quality does matter.

Out go Bjorn's lights!

BjornB17

F1nut wrote:

No more so than the quantity (gauge) of a cable. Actually, you've admitted something with that comment, quality does matter.

Out go Bjorn's lights!

Touche.... not!

My previous posts said that differences will be measureable. I'm not talking just about watts, but about any type of property that could be measured. Maybe you have ADD and missed that part. I'm saying that differenes in sound can't just magically happen even though two cables might measure the same. Nice try, though.

My belief is that the sound is mostly affected by preamp/amp and speakers. A wire which has a .0045 ohm resistance can't possibly sound different that a wire which has a .0048 resistance. Well, it would sound different, but to such a small extent that that the difference in sound would be impossibly small to hear, and by quite a large margin.

I am NOT saying that a 20 gauage wire with shoddy construction will sound good.

F1nut

Now, you're really talking out your ****......of course, that's all you can do because you've been knocked out cold.

Go back and read the link I posted for you after you wake up.

TroyD

My previous posts said that differences will be measureable

Are you suggesting that we have no more research to do in the area of acoustical measurement? We've gotten as far as we possibly can go? I find that hard to swallow.

My belief is that the sound is mostly affected by preamp/amp and speakers

I don't disagree with that, however, it's your opinon which is no more valid than anyone else.

Well, it would sound different, but to such a small extent that that the difference in sound would be impossibly small to hear, and by quite a large margin.

At what point does something become audible?

You still haven't explained how you measure the sound difference of a vacuum tube and solid state. Bob Carver has proved that he can build a SS amp that measures EXACTLY like a tube amp yet they don't sound the same. Explain how this is possible.

BDT

BjornB17

F1nut wrote:

Now, you're really talking out your ****......of course, that's all you can do because you've been knocked out cold.

Go back and read the link I posted for you after you wake up.

No, I'm still alive and kickin here. Thanks for the concern, though. It's amusing to see a grown man like you talking this way though.

EDIT: I just went back and took a look at the link you posted (which wasn't there in the post BEFORE you edited it, so i didn't see it the first time). It is just a link to a company that sells these cables. So are you telling me that you buy stuff from a company based on what they say about their own products?

TroyD

Do you plan to answer any of my questions?

So far you have offered nothing of any substance, just conjecture and ****.

BDT

F1nut

You're boring me. If you'd like, keep digging....a slight right and you'll be in China soon enough.

BjornB17

F1nut wrote:

You're boring me. If you'd like, keep digging....a slight right and you'll be in China soon enough.

If this thread bores you so much, then stop posting in it, and let it die out.

TroyD

Again, do you plan on answering ANY of my questions?

BDT

F1nut

BjornB17 wrote:

So are you telling me that you buy stuff from a company based on what they say about their own products?

Good God, are you that dense or do you just play that role on TV? Since, you really don't seem to understand any of this, I LISTEN with my EARS. I'd suggest you sit down, STFU and do the same.


BTW, there's no way you read any of the material in the time span of your posts, so why did you ask for info if you're not going to read it??? You don't need to answer that, we all know the answer.

TroyD

So are you telling me that you buy stuff from a company based on what they say about their own products?

Regardless of WHO wrote it, can you dispute it with any sort of credibility?

BDT

Airplay355

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

How do you know a wire should sound different if it doesn't sound different at all? Your reality is based on perception and if you hear a difference then there is a difference, for you. If you don't hear a difference then there is no difference.

I highly doubt that anyone know's EVERY aspect of the wires and signals passing through them. There could be differences that no one thought to measure, or things we don't know to measure, or thing's we can't measure.

So, until someone figures out a way to standardize ears and use measurements to judge things like speakers, amplifiers and cables, just buy what sounds good.

TroyD

well, that's the whole point...

Bjorn seems to think that everything that is audible MUST correlate to a certain measurement and that it's not possible that we can't measure everything.

BDT

Tour2ma

TroyD wrote:

BjornB17 wrote:

My belief is that the sound is mostly affected by preamp/amp and speakers

I don't disagree with that, however, it's your opinon which is no more valid than anyone else.

Personally I think speakers have the greatest impact... and I measure them in inches.

BjornB17

Airplay355 wrote:

If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

How do you know a wire should sound different if it doesn't sound different at all? Your reality is based on perception and if you hear a difference then there is a difference, for you. If you don't hear a difference then there is no difference.

I highly doubt that anyone know's EVERY aspect of the wires and signals passing through them. There could be differences that no one thought to measure, or things we don't know to measure, or thing's we can't measure.

So, until someone figures out a way to standardize ears and use measurements to judge things like speakers, amplifiers and cables, just buy what sounds good.

I suppose this is a reasonable response and one worth considering. I just had no confidence in the credieblity in F1nut who wrote:

"Measure this, I think you're crackpot! I also know that there is ALWAYS a scientific explanation as to why you are a crackpot, but that doesn't excuse you. I also think you should repeat English 101."

As well as TroyD who gets grumpy in 90% of his posts.

TroyD

I get grumpy when toads make claims that they can't and won't support with any sort of evidence.

So, are you going to address any of my questions or not?

BDT

BjornB17

Another thing I had in mind which causes me to doubt the "benefits" of such expensive cables is the fact that most speakers use average wires for their internal wiring, so I am sceptical of how a cable that runs only from an amp to the speaker terminals can make such a difference.

Don't flame me for this one, I am just trying to figure this out.

TroyD

Not all speakers use cheap wire, so, strike one.

Before you open up any more can of worms, why don't you g'head and ply me with some figures, data-boy.

Being a researcher in the engineering field myself, i know that there is ALWAYS a scientific explanation for why certain things happen.

C'mon, you've already thrown the expert card down so let's have it.

BDT

BjornB17

TroyD wrote:

I get grumpy when toads make claims that they can't and won't support with any sort of evidence.

So, are you going to address any of my questions or not?

BDT

Look, I'm getting sick of you talking down to me with this name calling. You haven't given any evidence of your viewpoint either.

TroyD

BjornB17 wrote:

Look, I'm getting sick of you talking down to me with this name calling. You haven't given any evidence of your viewpoint either.

Because I'm not making an empirical claim for chrissakes.

I've NEVER claimed my opinion is any more or less valid than anyone else's. In fact, I've said repeatedly that I KNOW I'm as full of **** as anyone else. Therefore the burden of proof isn't my issue, it's YOURS.

Rather than engineering, you oughta take a class in logic.

BDT

BjornB17

TroyD wrote:

Rather than engineering, you oughta take a class in logic.

Again with the insults?

TroyD

See, lemme buy you a vowel.

Rather than come here and run you pie hole about what you THINK to be true (but really have no basis in experience) to folks who do....what you should do is go out and listen to some decent gear and listen to find if you hear any difference in the cables. If you don't, that's perfectly acceptable. It's your opinion based on a reasonable amount of experience.

Otherwise, you are just insulting my intelligence.

BDT

TroyD

If you can answer my questions, credibly, I will edit anything you find offensive.

However, YOU started with the insults (saying I need to spend money on an engineering class and so forth is not exactly a compliment)

Otherwise, you've got a big bag of **** and I have no issues pointing that out.

BDT

TroyD

BjornB17 wrote:

Again with the insults?

It's not an insult. It's a fact.

You are suggesting that I have to provide proof that your supposition is or isn't valid. That's preposterous.

BDT

F1nut

I've provided info to you, which you elected to ignore, yet you question my credibility.....that's funny stuff.

Here's another former non-believer and his personal experience. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36715

BjornB17

F1nut wrote:

I've provided info to you, which you elected to ignore, yet you question my credibility.....that's funny stuff.

Here's another former non-believer and his personal experience. http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36715

Mail me some cables and i'll tell you if i can hear a difference. Deal?

Atleast if you don't get them back, then you will know that you were right (or that i sold them on ebay).

beardog03

BjornB17 wrote:

Mail me some cables and i'll tell you if i can hear a difference. Deal?

Atleast if you don't get them back, then you will know that you were right (or that i sold them on ebay).

what cables do you presently use..?

TroyD

He's got nothing....just a big bag of wind.

And for the record, why would I send this guy cables? Pffffffft. I could care less. What I DO care about is someone who hasn't a CLUE telling ME what I hear or don't hear. THAT kind of thing makes me grumpy.

BDT

F1nut

Sure thing, how about a nice pair of one meter IC's? I will need a 1k deposit first.

Why don't you go down to your local high end dealer, have a chat with him, maybe he'll let you try a pair over the weekend or some such.