My system is installed.......bout damn time.....

brettw22

I've attached the pics of where they put the amp in the trunk and the rear deck. Since all factory grilles are intact there's no point in showing those pictures. They swapped the bad amp today so I now have 4 channels and they are AWESOME!!!! I'm planning on getting Sirius installed either this weekend or when I return from the road after about a month and a half.

I have one issue..........with the location of the amp (only place it could go because of the passthrough on the folddown backseat). it ultimately is exposed when the trunk is opened so rain can drop right onto the amp from the sky, or right from the edge of the trunk when I'm opening it. I mentioned this to them when I took it back to have the amp swapped and they said that I would need to pay another $30 because "it's a custom fit". TRUST me when I say that I'm going to argue the hell out of that one and I'm going to tell them that I paid the "custom" charge before and it's not my fault that the (30 year) experienced installer chose to leave it exposed. I'm about done with these guys to be honest. See where the amp is and where the rear speakers are? They charged me $25 (half their usual charge) to run those cables the whole 5 feet. ARGGGGG........

beardog03

beautiful,man,just beautiful..!!

very nice..!!
I`m jealous..

how do you like the 4oo.4 ?
I have a new one, I just haven`t installed it yet..

brettw22

I really like it. I know these speaks can handle over twice the power, but I hav no complaints. With some of the music I've been listening to, I've been blasting the hell out of it and these sound incredible. I'm considering getting an sub, so I'm sure that's on the way in the not so distant future.

exalted512

Yea, you got **** on the prices. Thats rediculous. I would take it back and demand they remove it and put it somewhere where your $300 investment isnt going to **** up due to the elements. Everything looks good though. But now you know why we tried to get you to consider doing it yourself.
-Cody

danger boy

looking good there. i'm sure is sound every bit as good too.

it's been years since i had amps intalled in any car. that one looks huge to me. very cool.

enjoy.

MacLeod

That is a sweet spot for the amp, other than it being exposed. It cost you zero space in your trunk.

You could fashion up something for it yourself to hang over and keep the rain off.

Im disappointed in Tweeter, I thought they were a little better than that. Next time, find a good localy owned shop and let them do it. Their installers will be just as good but also more honest and not as likely to be trying to rip you off at every turn.

brettw22

I'm VERY thrilled with the location of the amp because of not having to lose any trunk space.....trust. The thing that bothers me is them acting like I'm supposed to be the one thinking about the install when they have someone that's been doing them as long as he apparently has. If he made an error in judgement by not ensuring that the amp was going to be protected, then do what needs to be done and fix it. Otherwise, I'm going to be going back to them and making them replace my amp due to water damage.

I have to go back to have them fix the board because the guy didn't have time *for my scheduled appointment* to alter the board, so instead he just swapped the amp. They will not get me to pay for anything unless he's planning to house that thing in acrylic to protect it. The other thing that bothers me is they charged me for the upgrade of the factory wiring, but for the front speakers they only ran the new wire from the amp to the back of the deck (leaving it as 18awg from the deck to the speakers). Personally, if I'm paying $45 per pair to 'upgrade from stock wiring' you better bust your **** to snake and wire that cable through the doors IMO. If you're unable to do that, adjust the pricing accordingly, because I'm ultimately paying for something I'm not receiving.....

Before I head over to the shop having them refund me money, I'm going to another tweeter to have them go over my install and tell me what would and would not be appropriate charges. I'm ok with most of it, but where they shortcut (wiring) and misplan the install (amp) they need to refund money.

1996blackmax

The wiring thing is BS, you paid to have the wire used on your speakers. Not to your factory cables that then went to your speakers. I would make a big stink about this. You paid for a quality install, and you should get it.

I know a guy that had some speakers installed at a Tweeter here in town. He drove off and later on tried to roll down his window. Could not do it. The speaker would not allow the window to go all the way down.

danger boy

exalted512 wrote:

Yea, you got **** on the prices. Thats rediculous. I would take it back and demand they remove it and put it somewhere where your $300 investment isnt going to **** up due to the elements. Everything looks good though. But now you know why we tried to get you to consider doing it yourself.
-Cody

Ummmmm.... as much coinage as Brett dropped on the install.. i'm sure he'd rather not hear how badly he got reamed on the deal. Some of us not familar enough with car audio install, me included would never feel comfortable tackeling a install like that.. without running into some major problems.

Those people involved in car audio may not find an install like this a big challenge at all. but it would certainly be way over my head. Kit or not kit. I'd end up **** up the entire electrical system in my car for sure. :eek:

Oh yeah.. just curious, does your pimped out ride have an alarm? If not.. i'd probably get a damn good one. See if they'll throw one in and installed for nada, for your troubles.

1996blackmax

Good point regarding the alarm. I am actually still waiting to put a system in my sister's car due to this reason. As soon as the alarm goes in, the system goes in. It will involve HU, two amps, all speakers (all POLK ), and a 12" sub.

brettw22

DB, no worries on the phrasage by Cody......I'm aware that I got screwed on the pricing.......now it's just time to deal wtih it.

I'm going to try rolling down my windows later toinght. If I remember correctly, this guy installed the speakers with the windows rolled down.......I'm still going to check.

What I was told when I asked about the wiring being terminated behind the deck is that with some cars it's nearly impossible to snake the wire up and around and in the door blah blah blah.....

I don't have an aftermarket alarm.....just the factory one.Looking into the car, you'd really only think that I had an aftermarket deck because all the factory grills are in place and don't look altered.

I'm wanting to get a remote start but having a Manual, there aren't many shops that are willing to go there.

PoweredByDodge

looks good hoss.

very professional looking... a lot of these retail chains do sloppy installs, but I think your's came out very very nice.

brettw22

I'd agree that the overall neatness is excellent. It's the business practices part of it that I'm needing to address.

MacLeod

I wouldnt sweat it too much Brett. I woulndt necessarily say you got screwed, just that they werent on the up and up witcha and didnt cut you any slack where they obviously shouldve (running speaker wire 3' and charging for it!)

If you paid for upgraded wiring then it should be upgraded wiring running from the amp to the speaker terminals. That is something you should at least get your money back on. Running good quality speaker wire to the head unit and then splicing into the crappy sewing thread they use for factory wires to run another 6' to the speakers is a load of crap! You might as well have used the factory wire!!

exalted512

Thats what we do when installing amps on highs, just run the speaker wires from the amp to the back of the deck. If they ask to run wire to each speaker, its $20 per pair unless its something easy like the back deck, in which case its free. You paid for something they didnt do. I wouldnt take my money back, I'd make it go in there and redo it. Sorry about my first post, I reread it and it did sound pretty harsh. Everything looks great, but I would most certainly go back and make them hold up their side of the deal.
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

kill all their dogs!

amulford

It looks good. You have the EXACT speaker wire I got. Almost a shame to hide that pretty ****, ain't it?

If you paid to get new wiring, get new wiring. I'd make them do a home run, too, the bastads. I don't want any extra connections if I can avoid it. That **** about snaking it is just that, ****. It takes time, that's all.

As far as the amp goes... If he didn't put it there, you probably would have lost space. If I were you, I'd get a cover made.

Other than that, why are you starving the little buggers? Give em the power they're beggin' for. Put another 400.4 on the other side and BI AMP!!!

I bet it sounds pretty damn good huh?

PoweredByDodge

bi amping won't increase power output. it'll just give you more control over the speakers. they're still 4 ohm speakers. unless you bridge the 400.4 to the front and get another 400.4 bridged to the back. that wouldn't be biamping though.

I always dealt with door jamb boots by using another grommet on the "outer kick panel" below the factory one... usually there's another one there witha rubber plug in the hole... poke a hole in the rubber, shove the wire through, poke a hole in the endof the boot where it meets the door, snake it through... then put skinny loom over the piece of wire and leave some extra loom so you can shave it in through the rubber on the "outer kick" and shove it in through the hole you pokedin the boot -- then it looks professional, is still weather resistant, and gets the job done without having to dick around with the factory boot which is often full of way too many wires as it is.

exalted512

PoweredByDodge wrote:

bi amping won't increase power output. it'll just give you more control over the speakers. they're still 4 ohm speakers. unless you bridge the 400.4 to the front and get another 400.4 bridged to the back. that wouldn't be biamping though.

he meant have one 400.4 for the front and one 400.4 for the rear, just to clarify
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

could do that -- if he's got the same space opn the passenger size trunk-side-panel thing... then just do a mirror image... with some kind of a "looks like it belongs in the car" shield made to deflect rain/snow/whatever when he opens the trunk.

would look wicked good.

audiobliss

Looks good. Good install, too, except for the wiring and exposed amp. I'd really stick it to 'em 'til you get what you paid for and what their experience should have given you in the first place.

Congrats on an awesome system! Now get a sub in that thing!

brettw22

Well I finally had the time to go to another Tweeter to get a few things explained to me and find out some of the differences that I'd been told on the phone. I called and talked to a manager tonight at the Tweeter that I had my install done at and here's what I brought up:

- I was charged $80 per pair of speakers to install because they were component speakers. Tweeter, however, also has a price of $40/pair for component speakers if they're mounted coaxially, which mine are.

- The speaker wiring on the front's being terminated behind the deck and being charged the $45 for the upgrade of factory wiring. One thing that I asked the guy at the Tweeter that I stopped by (didn't have the work done at) was how could they possibly have used the factory wiring for my rear speakers. He said they would have had to run cable from the amp (in the trunk) back up to the deck and that's how they'd tie into the factory wiring. My question is this......why would I be charged anything to run the wires 5-6 feet to the speakers on the rear deck since I'm saving them having to run anything back up to the deck?

- Exposed amp. I explained to him the problem with the water drippage on it when the trunk is opened and that I had called and asked about it and was told that I would have another 'custom labor' charge to fix it. He seemed to have a crystal understanding on why I'd be bothered to be told that I have to pay to retrofit something they came up with.

Ultimately, the way I look at it I should be getting around $80-100 back and they should be getting everything resolved shortly. I did say to the guy taht I don't really have issues with the overall quality of work that was done, just the inconsistencies between waht one shop does/charges and how those differed on my install. One thing that I will be doing is taking my business (possible Sirius purchase in the future) to the other Tweeter that has been very forthcoming with any information I've asked of them.

Regarding the adding of another amp. Would that double the power to each speaker? Would I have to run another set of speaker wire up to each of the speakers so I have 2 home runs per speaker (4 per pair)?

I have thought about getting a second 400.4 to put on the passenger side to basically mirror what I have on the current install (the existing amp would stay the amp for the front speakers). The two thoughts with doing this are:
1) I currently have a 4 channel rca run from the front deck to the existing amp, so I don't want to have to re-run (or re-purchase) RCA's. In my head, I've thought about an RCA extention pair being swung from the current amp to the new, if that's even an existing product.
2) The speaker cable for the rears wouldn't be a problem to swing from current location drivers to new location passengers.

Lastly, I'm thinking of getting a sub, but first things first.....I need to get all things here resolved before I start adding to the mix.

danger boy

my head hurts now after reading that Brett.. I need a nap. ha ha ha.

good for you man. Sounds like you got most everything resolved or at least explained to you better.

car audio doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. i'm sure it's pretty basic understanding.. but it's over my head.

Just curious.. how much tweeking did you have to do to the system to get it to sound good? little, lots or none at all?

brettw22

Did my questions get lost in the essay I wrote?

PoweredByDodge

if the new amp is going to push a sub,then your deck may have a "sub" pre out - a 3rd set of preouts --- run another 2 channel RCA from that preout to the sub amp... if your head unit doesn't have this - then use the RCA out jack on the amp to jumper a 6 foot RCA from amp #1 to amp #2.

If your amp doesnt have that then you'll have to use a Y-splitter to jump 2 of the channels into the one amp and then run the other remaining 2 channels over to the second amp. I haven't seen a 400.4 in person so i dont know.

if you just want to run another 400.4 to bi amp...then you'll have to use y splitters into the first amp and y splitters into the second amp -- in order to keep everything coherent...

if you then want to add a sub still after all of that and you don't have a 3rd preout, then you're going to have to split yet again, which gets messy... i need to know what youve got comin outa the deck first... then i'll look and see what the 400.4 is equipped with, and then we can go from there....

RuSsMaN

Fitness water?

Cool install. Keep the trunk closed when it rains.

brettw22

Right now, the potential other amp would be just to bi-amp my speakers (so a 400.4 for the fronts, and a 400.4 for the rears).

If I am going to bi-amp, how many runs of cables do I need to make to each door?

All I've got coming out of the deck is a 4 channel run from the deck to the trunk where the 400.4 is. I believe there is a pre-out for a sub should I decide to put that in at a later time.

PoweredByDodge

ok...

then this is how you'd do it...

one set of 2 channel RCA's to 400.4 #1 ... split it with Y splitters to make it 4 channel friendly.

one set of 2 channel RCA's to 400.4 #2 ... split it with Y's again to make it 4 channel friendly.

one set of 2 channel RCA's from sub output to the sub amp...

you'll need 2 lines of speaker wire for each SR component you want to bi-amp... so you'll need one speaker wire run for the tweeter, one for the woofer on the left side.... on the right side you'll need one for the tweeter and one for the woofer...

left rear... one for tweeter, one for woofer.. right rear... one for tweeter, one for woofer.

brettw22

I figured that I'd have to 2 channel it to each amp, but since I have a 4-channel RCA from the deck to 400.4 #1, I guess I could just male/female an RCA extension from 2 of the channels over to 400.4 #2, right?

With regard to the speaker wire, would I run the wire directly to the tweeter and the mid bypassing the crossover alltogether?

I'm not entirely sure that I'm going to do the bi-amping thing because they didn't even go into the door with the front speakers because they said they "couldn't get through the door" blah blah blah.

The Sub though will be a totally different thread I'll start if/when I decide to go there.

PoweredByDodge

yes, you can use "bullet" (female in - female out) connectors to extend 2 channels of your 4 channel line over to the other 400.4

that's no problem... just "tuck it [the bullet joint] away" so it looks all pretty like it does now.

far as speaker wire... i believe the 400.4's have built in active high and low pass crossovers... so you should be able to totally bypass the external SR crossover. however, if the SR crossover is of better quality than the crossovers in the amp, then you could also just run both tweeter and woofer power lines (from amp) into the crossover and then out of the crossover --- the SR crossover has a provision for bi-ampling built into it i believe.

that's horse **** about "not being able to get into the door" -- if they can't get through the stock grommet then you're supposed to drill two small dime sized or smaller holes and put an additional grommet in the jamb and in the door... and then use wire-loom to make a "boot" over the speaker wire. I did that in my trucks... looks like its "factory".

MacLeod

The only reason to bi-amp would be to gain an added flexibility in tuning the tweeters output. That being said, the SR's crossover is DEAD ON in terms of the tweeter attenuator and really dont require much additional tuning beyond the SR's x-over abilities.

Another thing I dont like about bi-amping is having to buy and run double the wires and cables you normally would have to.

In my opinon, Id keep the single 400.4 and use that money for your sub amp. There is nothing wrong with bi-amping but if youre just mainly wanting a "plug and play" system, bi-amping aint really worth it especially with the SR's.