Which HQ subwoofer for 2 channel?

madmax

Forget high output, insane pricing, lowest digging or whatever. What is the best sounding sub out there. By best sounding, I mean most REAL sounding on classical, jazz and blues type music.
madmax

BlueMDPicker

(Pssst..... listen to them without a sub first. Despite the FR rating, they aren't weak in LF, IMO.)

shack

The best "musical" sub I've ever heard was a Rel Storm III. Before I get the SVS groupies on my case, SVS makes a wonderful sub...I've heard Mark's and it is very good. That said...I would...(and someday may)...without question put a Rel Storm III in my 2 channel rig.

Early B.

Onix Rocket sub. Mine sounds great. Better than the Hsu STF-2 that it replaced, and the Hsu was damn good.

Early B.

My next one will be a sealed DIYer with a 10" driver. That way, I get to choose the quality of the components.

RuSsMaN

Vandersteen, Martin Logan, Rel (sealed versions).

[Deleted User]

For me its the Janis W1 with the Interphase 1A crossover/amp. Lowest distortion (they came with a distortion vs frequency graph), most "musical" sound and the controller allows you to perfectly adjust the polarity angle and even center the voice coil in the voice coil gap. Only sub that matches with electrostatics or planar type speakers for speed and low coloration.
Ken

RuSsMaN

What, no PSW10?

shack

RuSsMaN wrote:

Vandersteen, Martin Logan, Rel (sealed versions).

I have never been able to hear one of the REL Q series subs. I would imagine they would be excellent in a 2 channel setup.

unc2701

Rel. knocked me on my ****.

madmax

BlueMDPicker wrote:

(Pssst..... listen to them without a sub first. Despite the FR rating, they aren't weak in LF, IMO.)

Not for those. I've just been wondering what is high quality.

That Janis sub looks interesting.

madmax

jmierzur

Here is an interesting article on the Vandersteen 2Wq sub.

There are no Vandersteen or Rel dealers where I live so I had to settle for SVS with the Ultra drivers. Sounds very good.

madmax

jmierzur wrote:

Here is an interesting article on the Vandersteen 2Wq sub.

That is a long article! But, a very good one. I saved it because I need to digest some of the info and read it again later. I too believe sound is more about your room and setup than the actual equipment. Of course better equpment in a better room will always be better. Thanks for the link!
madmax

SONYTHEATER

madmax wrote:

Forget high output, insane pricing, lowest digging or whatever. What is the best sounding sub out there. By best sounding, I mean most REAL sounding on classical, jazz and blues type music.
madmax

Two little words "Infinate Baffle" hands down. I have had, heard, & built alot of subs & never yet heard one of them that compare to the SQ of an IB set up. I have never heard any sub system that is just so effortless, can play as low & with as much detail with whatever you throw it's way.
But this is of course only going to work if you like to DIY, you own you're home, & have the right space for it.

madmax

SONYTHEATER wrote:

Two little words "Infinate Baffle" hands down.

Good point! I hadn't even thought of that. I always thought I could vent to the basement but wondered about things like shutting the basement door and its effect on the woofer. Also, I'm wondering about the floor vibrations and if that affects things in a positive or negative way. I guess that would only be a concern at very high volumes.

madmax

SONYTHEATER

Mine is in my crawlspace witch opens up to my basement. You cant tell any differance with doors open or closed in the basement. It can vibrate things with easy at higher volume levels, & with some things it actley feels like the floor is being pushed up & down, but I enjoy the effect.
The system is truley just amasing I have played test tones down to 1hz & it can get downright scarry of how many wierd pops a grones the house will make from around 15hz & down.
All I'm running are 4 Dayton DVC 15"s powered off a PE 250 watt plate amp, that will be soon replaced with a pro amp & a BFD. You can see my pictures on my home page if you're intersted. And just let me know if you have any questions I'd be glad to help.

Early B.

Max -- what is your budget?

madmax

My budget is less than $59 dollars. Of course, if you can prove 5K is necessary, I could do that as well.

Actually, on this subject I'm just fishing right now. I'm waiting on my McAlister Amp and wondering if a sub would be a good thing. I also own four 18" Kicker subs which I'm thinking would make a kick **** infinite baffle sub system.
I can truely say at this point that I am just bench racing and have no real plans yet. What are you thinking?
madmax.

Early B.

Go IB !!!!

unc2701

IB is a good HT solution, but I don't feel like you get quite the speed for a truly musical sub. Those 18's and an IB will go deeeep and loud, but you want hard, fast kicks without losing the deep low notes- IB isn't going to give you that- especially with 18 inch drivers. TL (which Rel uses a flavor of) maintains some of the springiness of a sealed system, without wasting the backwave...

Early B.

unc2701 wrote:

IB is a good HT solution, but I don't feel like you get quite the speed for a truly musical sub. Those 18's and an IB will go deeeep and loud, but you want hard, fast kicks without losing the deep low notes- IB isn't going to give you that- especially with 18 inch drivers. TL (which Rel uses a flavor of) maintains some of the springiness of a sealed system, without wasting the backwave...

OK, in that case, Max, have you considered making a sealed 8" or 10" sub? By doing so, you get to choose the quality of the components and get exactly what you want. By going with a proven DIY design, that makes it kinda hard to screw something up.

unc2701

Early B. wrote:

OK, in that case, Max, have you considered making a sealed 8" or 10" sub? By doing so, you get to choose the quality of the components and get exactly what you want. By going with a proven DIY design, that makes it kinda hard to screw something up.

Max, I highly recommend the Seas driver that's in my sig. put it in a 60-70 liter sealed box, stuff it to flavor and let 'er rip. It's not going to be perfect, (and can't handle high volumes) but it'll give you the kind of bass that you're talking about and it goes for $120 at madisound.

m-rorem

Musical = Accurate/Low-Distortion?

If so, let's not forget one of the lowest distortion subs on the market:

Velodyne DD, or HGSx subs (in that order)

Their Servo-Feedback system results in output that is accurate to the source with less that 1% distortion.

Of course they are quite a bit more expensive than many other subs on the market, but you do get what you pay for.

Half

SONYTHEATER

unc2701 wrote:

IB is a good HT solution, but I don't feel like you get quite the speed for a truly musical sub. Those 18's and an IB will go deeeep and loud, but you want hard, fast kicks without losing the deep low notes- IB isn't going to give you that- especially with 18 inch drivers. TL (which Rel uses a flavor of) maintains some of the springiness of a sealed system, without wasting the backwave...

You really need to re think what you are saying, have you ever heard an IB?
Have you seen how many guys are using 18" drivers in an IB. And as far as speed & being musical, I would put my IB up against any sealed, or ported design & put money on it that it would sound just as good or most cases I have heard much better.
I have not yet heard another sub that is as musical, clean, & just down right powerfull as an IB. And I'm running off only 250watts to four 15" DVC's, I can't begin to imagine what its going to do when I add my pro amp next month.
Anyway to the OP If you wont chesty in you're face bass go with a boxed design of you're likeing. If you wont the best sound / performance for you're dollar go with an IB. I have just barley over 600 in mine subs, amp & all. And I would gladley put it up against any commerical sub out there for sound quality & bet that I would come out the winner.

unc2701

Yeah, I've heard several IB's, I had one installed in my current house (vented into the crawlspace) until the neighbors complained about the noise and I'll put one in my next house, too. They're kick-**** HT subs and anyone with some minor skills can throw one together in a day. However, I wouldn't call a high mass, completely undamped driver "musical" in any way. Powerful, yes. Deep, yep. Musical, no. Give yours a thorough listen, then put it up against a proper sealed sub and you'll hear it, too.

SONYTHEATER

unc2701 wrote:

Yeah, I've heard several IB's, I had one installed in my current house (vented into the crawlspace) until the neighbors complained about the noise and I'll put one in my next house, too. They're kick-**** HT subs and anyone with some minor skills can throw one together in a day. However, I wouldn't call a high mass, completely undamped driver "musical" in any way. Powerful, yes. Deep, yep. Musical, no. Give yours a thorough listen, then put it up against a proper sealed sub and you'll hear it, too.

So what you're still trying to say is that an IB isnt musical? I think, no waite I know there are quite guys at the IB forum that would tell you you're nuts just as I will. Now if you're using some POS drivers well, thats another story.
Like I've already said I have owned many different subs some retail subs some DIY. I have listined to many well known good subs like the velodyne HGS, the Pardigime servo subs, Most of anything Klipsch makes including there THX ultra2 subs, Sunfire, & so on & so on. But I yet havent heard anything that for the money can touch an IB.

And to say you have heard several IB's, I somehow find that doubtfull as there are not to many people that have them. Or a least in one geneal spot that you would have the chance to hear several. And If you have had one you would be the first of anyone I have heard of yet to take it back out. Expecally for noise being that they are no louder than a normal box sub (in most cases & at normal volume levels). In fact my neighbors complane less about mine than my previous sono sub I had unless I'm just flat out cranking it.

mantis

Rel. Mad look into Rel. They are without a doubt the best musical subs in the bussiness.

But Martin Logan has made some really killer sounding musical subs. Not to mention B&W has also made some really nice sounding musical subs.

Get off the keyboard and get out there and check some stuff out.

Dan

Mazeroth

Infinite Baffle is THE BEST SQ you can get, PERIOD. It takes the box colorations out of the picture, which you're saying, make subs sound better.

Max, if you have ANY chance at all to install an infinite baffle, do not hesitate and do it. I just picked up four Ascendant Audio Atlas 15s (5 total) and will be using four of them in an infinite baffle once we purchase a house (over a year away). Laugh if you will, but the house we purchase must be able to utilize an infinite baffle, or I won't buy it! After hearing one about 9 months ago I could never, ever go back to a boxed sub knowing what can be achieved for a fraction of what a boxed sub costs. Even with a single 15", that will be more than enough for music duties. Throw in another $100 for a plate amp and another $100 for a Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro, and you will have a sub that can play flat to 20hz (although it's better to have 2+ 15"s for that kind of extension) and will sound better than any commercial sub on the planet.

Do yourself a favor and check out this site. Also check out the "Direct links to our reference pages" that shows up at the top of the site. You will need to register before being able to view:

http://ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi

madmax

I'll check out the IB site. I looked at the REL subs too. Wow, too many choices from REL. I might just go with something simple.

My main reason for wanting a sub is that on some recordings the bass is just recorded too low. I would like to have the option of turning up the bass a little on those recordings without inserting anything like an EQ into the signal path. Most recordings are fine.
madmax

ninerbj

What qualifies a sub as being "musical"?

Mazeroth

Good news. I decided to build an infinite baffle sub in the basement of my townhouse (shhh!) and am working on it right now. I'm taking pictures and hope it will be done by Friday. I'm taking nearfield and farfield measurements as well, and will post all those before and after EQ.

Be prepared!