Signal Flow Direction?

danger boy

it's all in fun... the long timers here have seen and answered every question ever posted about 9,999,999,999,999,999,999 times.. and it gets a little old. so some of us.. just like to flip the newbies some sheite once in a while. it's all harmless.. our bark is much worse then our bite.. GRRRRRRRRRRR!

If you come in here thinking you're all that. and know it all about audio... you may not make very many friends here.. the people who have become a vital part of this forum and participate in it.. have gotten the most out of it. We're all just lovers of Polk Audio products.. that's what brings us together here.

For the record.. i don't honestly know if siganl flow makes a difference or not. I have a couple different cables that show an arrow with the signal flow.. and I hook it up that way. Just today as a matter of fact I replaced a .5 meter Vampire digital cable with a Raymond cable .5 meter digital cable. I don't notice any difference.. but in my mind.. i know it's a better made cable. So it satisfies my need to have better quality cables and wires in my system.

fox

Well, I think I have my answer now. Really did not mean to get a controversy started on this.

fox

Didn't mean to post the same twice either, oh well...thanks for the assist.

BjornB17

LiquidSound wrote:

You people are so silly. My findings are SOLID!! Don't use cables and you notice an IMMEDIATE difference. Night and day people...

at first i was skeptical with your findings, but I too decided to give you idea a try. Just so i wasnt biased, i had a friend plug and unplug cables while i was listning. First I thought I heard the normal good sound of my Polk speakers, so i figured he didn't change the cable yet. Then suddenly that sound went away! With a difference like this I'm thinking about going cable-free with everything. I'll keep you updated on my findings.

HiPerf360

I said I can hear the difference between good and bad cables, just not the difference between good and gooder cables.

My original reason for the reply was just that all analogue audio signals are AC and signal flow is BS in my opinion. Grounding a third layer of a cable at one end only might have some benefits but that is all in the ear of the beholder.

beardog03

It`s harder to hear the difference between gooder and bestest cables..

IMO, it depends on the user, and the equipment involv-ed..ed..!

I want my King Cobra`s to sound better than my Diamondbacks, but they don`t really..

My MIT S1`s blow them both out of the water though...

jmierzur

Found a reference regarding directional arrows on this page.

" In cables where the shield does not carry the signal or ground,
the shield is normally only connected to ground at one end.
In systems where there are significant differences between
ground levels on various components, it may make a difference
which way such cables are connected. Typically, the end where
the shield is grounded should be at the source of the signal.
Often, such cable has arrows on it pointing in the direction of
the signal flow. In any case, try both orientations.

"

amulford

Can we stop this one here. It is up to the listener.

Repeat after me...:

"Those that don't know, don't know that they don't know..."

madmax

Lets face it, some listeners on some gear cannot hear the difference. Not to put down what anyone has because it is not necessarily cost or quality dependent. It has more to do with synergy, what the user is listening for, how good of a listener you are, overall definition of the system and what you are able to hear.
madmax

pjdami

Some interconnects like Kimber Kable don't have arrows on them. What to do then? I got a tip from ezc here on the forum and hook them up in the direction that you read the labels on the ICs. In other words, the flow is in the direction that you read. Interestingly, the labeling on the ICs that I own that do have arrows also follow this "rule."

I just hook them up that way and forget about it. If the arrow is there then I hook it up that way. Bigger things to worry about than "what if I hooked them up backward?"

BjornB17

i'm starting to think that all you people sound funny talking about this.

aaharvel

BjornB17 wrote:

i'm starting to think that all you people sound funny talking about this.

you're telling me.
I'm sitting here talking about life on various threads and when i see audio discussions (on an audio forum nonetheless) it's like getting punched with a defibillator :cool:

fox

Appreciate the info sir, always nice to know there is a friendly place to come to just to hang out or ask questions.

madmax

BjornB17 wrote:

i'm starting to think that all you people sound funny talking about this.

We are starting to think you are funny because you are not talking about this.

One thing I found when I went to polkfest was quite a few hardcore individuals. I figured it would be just a social thing and was quite impressed by several people who were really into it. My first discussion proved that others had the same interest level I do. I've often talked to people at work etc when people have shown interest but it ends up they think I'm pulling their leg about this stuff. One guy at work asked me how I clean my records. After the quick answer version he rolled his eyes and said uh huh and left. I'm glad he didn't ask about cables! :eek:

madmax

reeltrouble1

YOUr limitless knowledge of **** is very impressive.

i AM so close so very very close. Nope, put the lawn chair away. But keep it close.

RT1

reeltrouble1

Ok, after taking several deep breaths, freezeframing.

I would suggest research into thoughts on physiological entrainment of the human body. Then consider how it affects art form, the meshing of science with feeling as well as "placebo".

A place to begin www.heartmath.com, you may find answers. My own personal BS world? Not for me.

RT1

BobMcG

I just love how some newcomers to CP wade in here claiming members here can't discuse a highly controversial subject like this one, as a prime example.

This topic has been hashed over literally dozens of times during the aprox 8 years I've been a member. It will be hashed over dozens of more times in the future.
Many members have brought forth their well structured aurguments time and time again with cable theorys and engineering degrees and just plain years or decades of listening experience under their belts. Is there always going to be the two different camps on this issue (and others like it, IE: LP/CD VT/SS etc.)? Yes.

Some of us have tired of getting involved in a lot of these highly subjective and hotly contested discussions and are content at sitting back and watching the event rather than getting involved. (Like me for one example.) Others are burned out on certain subjects and simply cut to the chase and (correctly or incorrectly so) flip a very quick, short summation of their honest feelings/findings on the matter at hand. Just because this is their response, don't count them out as not knowing what the heck they're talking about. They just may have talked about it untill they're blue in the face. (And I wouldn't doubt there are some in here who've forgotten more about audio than some others know.)

I can remember a time before this new format was developed for the forum (pre-July 2001) this DBS (discussion burnout syndrome) problem was addressed. It was decided then that it might be a good idea that if you were sick and tired of a paticular subject, ignore it. Let others handle it. That's what I choose to do, for the most part. Doesn't make me right and others wrong it just keeps me out of trouble.

BjornB17

BobMcG wrote:

I just love how some newcomers to CP wade in here claiming members here can't discuse a highly controversial subject like this one, as a prime example.

Are you referring to me

HBombToo

The Marketeers of the cable industry are the only gang enjoying life right now.

Me, I have had fun experiencing for myself all(some;>)) of the gadgets the industry brings to the table.

I guess the big question is, should we follow the manufacturers recommendation?

I would like to see a warning on an interconnect box stating, "BE CAREFULL or else INTERNET EMARASSMENT will RESULT FROM non-STANDARD IMPLEMENTATION" ;>)

twin

BobMcG

BjornB17 wrote:

Are you referring to me

No.

Nor am I refering explicitly to what's gone on in this thread. Rather a small trend I've noticed as of late.

dorokusai

It's a lame discussion, almost every time.

Hey, cable non-believers....chew on all this information for awhile.

MIT Patents/ White Papers & Burn-In (PDF)

Feel free to email MIT with your point by point counter, to all that information above. If you know so much....challenge yourself....and perhaps you can make a difference.

Is everyone that attempts to improve audio automatically a heretic? Aren't you one if that's the case?

I always get amused by these discussions due to the fact that cables are just one area of this hobby. You must believe in something making a difference or you would be listening to a Radio Shack Boom Box....I bet you aren't.

If MIT wasn't around the Skywalker Sound facility wouldn't exist....sound familiar? George Lucas and MIT have a long standing relationship...guess THX sucks for you as well? I imagine all the master recordings created from that equipment and associated cabling is garbage huh?

If John Curl never thought it was worth the time to improve audio....MFSL may not have existed....own any of these benchmark Redbook CD's? Burn them if you're so concerned.

He also designed and built the sound systems for the Grateful Dead....ever enjoyed a GD concert? You should forget those memories, if you haven't already. I'll let you figure out how important he has been to Parasound.

If Brad Miller never thought it was worthwhile to produce the highest quality recording possible...MFSL DEFINETLY wouldn't have existed. In fact, Ambient or New Age music may not exist if he wasn't around...does that get you off?

If Parasound wasn't around, what would have happened to the soundtracks from heavyweights like Lucasfilm, Pixar, Sony Pictures and Universal Pictures? You should stop buying from them immediately if you're so concerned.

Etc, etc.....

This industry is all intertwined, always will be. You can't rail against one thing and not eventually create your own hypocrisy. I don't believe in everything that's out there either, skepticism is important, but if you can't link more than a sentence to prove your point...you're not proving anything.

If that doesn't bother you, rock on....but I'll still be chuckling....and moving on to the next thread.

Happy Listening!

reeltrouble1

Thank you Bob and Doro.

RT1

Tour2ma

dorokusai wrote:

Hey....chew on all this information for awhile.

MIT Patents/ White Papers & Burn-In (PDF)

John Curl

MFSL

Brad Miller

Aw... F#@K... now there's gonna be a test so I'll have to study over the holidays...
____________________
Tour(Effin' noobs stirring the pot over and over again...)2ma

amulford

See, I just have to laugh.

Hey, it's up to you. If you feel they won't make a difference, they probably won't to you.

However, you must understand that there is alot of R&D that goes into development of these things.

Would you believe that Polk Audio once dabbled in cable? It is true, They once made speaker cables. I have a pair. They wanted to make a better speaker cable for people to use. Do you think they are snake oil (well they ARE called Cobra Cables) Actually they aren't. They stopped making them, they were too pure of a transmission line.

When you get to the point where we are, it is a matter of diminishing returns. The difference is now we are tweaking our sound. We aren't here to make you a true believer. You believe what you want to, it's your party.

PolkThug

dorokusai wrote:

...but I'll still be chuckling....and moving on to the next thread.

I chuckle about MIT's burn-in "rule":

"Remember this simple 2/2 Rule: 75% of performance in two days — 100% in two weeks!"

HiPerf360

I think you are missing my point. I know there are differences in cable quality, I was simply stating the differences between good and gooder (<-- this was originally intended for humor!) cable is minimal at best. This thread was not started to argue the value or audible differences between cables but the signal flow direction. Last time I checked RCA connections only had two poles, an inner connector, for the signal, and an outer connector, to shield low voltage signal and complete electrical circuit. So how exactly do you only connect the shielding braid to only one end of the cable as it would just backfeed to the other component? But there is still one concept I cant understand here... audio signals are alternating current so they flow both directions sometimes at tens of thousands of times a second, so how do you optimize a cable to flow better in one direction than another?

Nothing I say should be taken as an attack on your opinions or others, this is simply a discussion board, I'm not an expert by any means, just trying to discuss something I have never understood completely. Directional cables in an AC circuit. (Interconnects or speaker cable.)

jmierzur

Attached is a picture of AR Master cables. They show a cut-away of the cable construction.

They have spiraled center conductors for the signal and additionaly "Two Layers of Shielding: one 95%+ copper braids and one 100% overlapped Mylar® foil". Using this type of cable construction, it is possible to connect shielding only at one end. As you have noted, this would not be possible with a coax cable that has one center conductor and one shield.

F1nut

PolkThug wrote:

I chuckle about MIT's burn-in "rule":

"Remember this simple 2/2 Rule: 75% of performance in two days — 100% in two weeks!"

Have you actually tried any brand new MIT cables? If you haven't, then I chuckle at your ignorance.

VR3

You just said chuckle....

teeehheeee

madmax

F1nut wrote:

Have you actually tried any brand new MIT cables? If you haven't, then I chuckle at your ignorance.

I chuckle too.
madmax