War of the World's Blew my LSiC

tdeluce

I was about one third into watching the War of the World's at
reference sound level and my LSiC blew. I was driving it
with an Outlaw M2200 monoblock rated at 300 watts per
channel but I am pretty sure I wasn't close to 300 watts.

By the way, this movie's soundtrack rocks like none other.
It sounded like the frig'in tripods were coming up through my
family room floor!

Has anyone else had a problem wiht a LSiC? Would
a single LSi9 be better for a center channel ( they
look pretty much identical except for the casing ).
Or was this just bad luck?

beardog03

seems like more than a few people have done this with good results..

They do have different crossovers though..

danger boy

this isn't directed towards anyone... just my thoughts.. but is it easy to blow a tweeter or does it take some serious audio levels to blow one out?

I only ask because my friend blew the tweeter out on his CS400i a while back.. then recently blew out the crossover in his Klipsch Chorus II's. I know he likes his music and movies loud.. but what causes tweeters and crossovers to finally give up the farm?

tdeluce

beardog03 wrote:

seems like more than a few people have done this with good results..

They do have different crossovers though..

Here is the LSi9 xovers:
Driver 1: LPF at 200Hz 12dB/oct,
Driver 2: LPF at 2.4kHz, 12 dB/oct.
Tweeter: HPF at 2.4kHz 18dB/oct.

Here is the LSiC xover:
Driver 1: LPF at 200Hz, 12dB/oct.
Driver 2: LPF at 2.4kHz, 12dB/oct.
Tweeter: HPF at 2.4kHz, 18 dB/oct.

Do you mean the actual electronics is different?

Do most believe the LSis9 is a better speaker? If so, why?

Maestro

Just watched War of the Worlds(DTS)...

The action is FAN-TASTIC; the characters...eh! I'm curious...how loud do you guys actually listen to DVDs? Sheeesh! I'm at -35db with the HK AVR635 and it's driving R50s! Come on, R50s!!! AND my windows were rattling with the PSW12 sub! Come on, PSW12 sub?!!! Sub is set at -10db with the volume set at 12-o'-clock.

The CSi3 really shines with the Tibetan horn FX of the alien intruders. Nice!

How in the name of the gods of audio could you blow the tweeters on LSiCs?! Come on, LSiCs?!!!!! SHAME!!! Polk should have you arrested for audio listening abuse...


...just kidding! No hard feelings.

Willow

I think War of the Worlds Blew, PERIOD !! The only thing good was the sound.

Larry Chanin

Maestro wrote:

Just watched War of the Worlds(DTS)...

The action is FAN-TASTIC; the characters...eh! I'm curious...how loud do you guys actually listen to DVDs? Sheeesh! I'm at -35db with the HK AVR635 and it's driving R50s! Come on, R50s!!! AND my windows were rattling with the PSW12 sub! Come on, PSW12 sub?!!! Sub is set at -10db with the volume set at 12-o'-clock.

The CSi3 really shines with the Tibetan horn FX of the alien intruders. Nice!

How in the name of the gods of audio could you blow the tweeters on LSiCs?! Come on, LSiCs?!!!!! SHAME!!! Polk should have you arrested for audio listening abuse...


...just kidding! No hard feelings.

Hi,

I listen at -15 dB below reference level.

tdeluce indicated that he blew his LSiC, but he didn't specify which driver(s) blew. I'd be interested in knowing for sure which driver failed and where he set the crossover for his center channel?

By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by this movie when watching it at a commercial theater, and I intend to add it to my DVD collection.

Larry

ninerbj

I have the LSiC along with the Outlaw M200 myself. I have had the baby cranked on several occasions without a hicup. I wish I had an answer for you tdeluce.
How long have you had this combo?

adam2434

Also rented it last night.

At about -15, the sound fx and LFE were downright scary at times. I can't imagine what it would have been like at reference level.

I would say that this is a reference DVD for surround fx and LFE.

Picture quality was not reference level on my pj - somewhat grainey vs the best I have seen.

tdeluce

Larry Chanin wrote:

Hi,

I listen at -15 dB below reference level.

tdeluce indicated that he blew his LSiC, but he didn't specify which driver(s) blew. I'd be interested in knowing for sure which driver failed and where he set the crossover for his center channel?

By the way, I was pleasantly surprised by this movie when watching it at a commercial theater, and I intend to add it to my DVD collection.

Larry

I was listening at 0 dB ( calibrated to 75 dB on my Radio Shack SPL meter ). The sound stopped working completely on the LSiC one third through War of the Worlds. The crossover is at 60 Hz for all of the speakers. I have had this combo a little over a month...

VR3

Completely stopped working?

All of the drivers?

No sound at all?

I dont think you blew them - atleast not the midbasses. Maybe the tweeter - but Im going to point fingers at the crossover.

Early B.

Are you sure it's the speaker that blew? Could be the amp. Did you hook the speaker up to another channel and play it to check it out?

dkg999

Or ....... the Outlaw M2200's protection circuit tripped, or the center channel in the Denon pre/pro quit working. I would hook another speaker up to the center channel to see if it is the speaker or another component in the chain.

Early B.

It's interesting that you had a problem with playback with War of the Worlds. So did I. My problem was that on 3 or 4 occasions during the flick, the picture was fine, but the sound cut off for a few seconds, then came back on. During this time, the receiver was switching from DTS to DVD, then back to DTS. This only occurred during parts where there was deep bass. Not sure if the problem was with the DVD player or the receiver. I attributed it to the vibrations or a faulty DVD copy -- not sure though. It's never happened before.

tdeluce

First thing I did was swap amps and the center info came out my left
speaker just fine.

Sounds like the cross over circuitry may have been blown. Still under warranty so should be fine.

Does anyone have any reason to belive a LSi9 would be better than
a LSiC for handling higher power amps?

ohskigod

some prefer the sound better, some dont. but it shouldnt have any bearing on power handling though, far as I know.

tdeluce

adam2434 wrote:

Also rented it last night.

At about -15, the sound fx and LFE were downright scary at times. I can't imagine what it would have been like at reference level.

I would say that this is a reference DVD for surround fx and LFE.

Picture quality was not reference level on my pj - somewhat grainey vs the best I have seen.

i think the PQ was the intended affect of the director - looked even
worse at the Theatre - sort of like a "home video" ....

McLoki

I am not that shocked that you blew your center. How far is your listening position from your center channel?

Every time the distance from your speaker doubles, you have to increase the decibles by 6db to keep the volume the same. 105db (reference level) 12 feet away from your speaker would equate to 117db one meter away from your speaker (where most efficiency levels are measured).

The LSi's are 88db efficent at 1 meter so that would be:

88db = 1 watt
91db = 2 watts
94db = 4 watts
97db = 8 watts
100db = 16 watts
103db = 32 watts
106db = 64 watts
109db = 128 watts
112db = 256 watts
115db = 512 watts
118db = 1024 watts

So if the dvd was not recorded hot at all and was sticking to true reference levels and you sat 12 feet away from your speakers (assuming you calibrated at 75db from your listening position not from 1 meter away from your speaker) it would need 117db or close to 1,000 watts of power.

I would guess that your amp clipped (unless it can provied over 1,000 watt peaks into 4 ohms) and fried your tweeter and or crossover. (just depends if the crossover died before the tweeter could...)

Isn't math fun?

Michael

Sami

tdeluce wrote:

I was about one third into watching the War of the World's at
reference sound level

DD or DTS track?

tdeluce

Sami wrote:

DD or DTS track?

DTS :-)

Sami

tdeluce wrote:

DTS :-)

And you were listening to it on DD reference level? Maybe that's why you blew the speaker. I have noticed most DTS tracks are very hot compared to DD tracks and I always turn them down by 10db initially. Reference level doesn't apply to DTS, only to DD.

RuSsMaN

Turn it down.

gidrah

This is a prime example of why I don't use a center.

Frank Z

Was it set to Small or Large?

Ferres

In Wotw, when the first tripod made the weird horn sound I heard some distortion at my center channel, not sure what causes it.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Larry Chanin

Hi,

Regarding actual sound pressure levels of this movie, here's a quote from a guy who has an exceptional home theater who recorded the actual sound pressure levels while watching War of the Worlds. He had his preamp set at -1 dB below reference.

I had my SPL meter out during the playback and I measured the loudest scenes peaks ranging from 94 db to 112 db (when played at -1). The dreadful horn averages about 97 db. This may be a troublesome soundtrack for many LCRs as reproducing these dynamics may be impossible. Horn drivers (e.g. Klipsch would be best suited for this film).
All an all this film delivers on the audio side in spades. Though I never really felt like my subs worked as hard as they have on films like 'Sky Captain' and 'The Haunting' D-VHS, they were certainly knocking on that door!

It's possible that this movie may be particularly challenging to the crossover if it's delivering BOTH high levels of bass and treble energy simultaneously. As was mentioned, that might explain why no drivers appear to be working.

Larry

VR3

How can you folks listen at reference level??

The HIGHEST* I have EVER listened was -6db from Ref.

Larry Chanin

Ferres wrote:

In Wotw, when the first tripod made the weird horn sound I heard some distortion at my center channel, not sure what causes it.

Has anyone else encountered this?

Hi,

Apparently this is a very challenging scene for tweeters. If you had set your receiver/preamp to reference levels, assumming your gear was up to the task, it would have produced an actual sound pressure level of 98 dB at the listening location.

Larry

Ferres

I wasn't listening at referrence level and the 'horn' distrotion sound only happened at that one scene. Perhaps my center is just not up to snuff:)

I'll set it to 'small' and see what happens. Do you think the Polk CSI5 could do a better job on this?

Thanks

Larry Chanin

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

How can you folks listen at reference level??

The HIGHEST* I have EVER listened was -6db from Ref.

Hi,

Personally I doubt I would ever attempt to listen to movies at reference levels, especially if I had never played a movie before. This thread is a good reason for exercising caution with movies that have unknown levels of special effects sounds. It used to be that I was concerned only with the bass, now I'll have to consider high energy treble as well.

Anyway, to attempt to listen at those levels without discomfort probably requires exceptional equipment. The amplifiers obviously will need to handle the load without clipping and the tweeters have to have an exceptionally smooth frequency response.

I just reported in an other thread that after replacing my original tweeter with the silk replacements I found that I could increase the normal level that I listened to movies by over 10 dB. with the original tweeters when I set the level over -25 dB below reference the sound was harsh and fatiguing. With the new tweeter I now normally listen at -15 dB below reference.

On one occasion I spent about two hours listening to symphonic music a -5 dB without fatigue and it did not sound uncomfortably loud either.

Larry

beardog03

-21 db below reference seems to be my norm for comfortable listening to HT..
I may go up a few notches on some movies, but if I have never played it before -21db seems a safe start..

Then I go up accordingly....that way I don`t have to start a thread like this one..!!!!!

Have a great Turkey Day.!!

Play that Killer HT rig for the Family and friends and watch the wives roll thier eye`s as they are trying to convince the other that they "need" a system like that